Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

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hexapling
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Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby hexapling » December 17th, 2018, 6:44 pm

I have owned a T-172 for years, but recently saw someone say that the creator, Lubor would hand it out for inspection after the performance? Didn't think that was possible! :o

Could someone please advice on how I can do that? Happy to show you proof that I own Invisible Zone through PM.

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 17th, 2018, 7:26 pm

Yes. Lubor would take the entire thing apart: the little door, the spring, the two parts of the pen cap flip, just take it all apart and drop it on the table. No problem!
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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby hexapling » December 18th, 2018, 1:02 am

Haha, nice clue. Thanks! 8-)

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby MagicbyAlfred » December 18th, 2018, 6:07 pm

Lubor Fiedler was truly an innovative genius. Interestingly, in Tenyo's description of the trick, it is stated that it is not examinable, but indeed it was the way Lubor offered it, as Richard noted in his Holiday gift of gold to the OP. This amusing excerpt is from the Tenyo-Magic.blogspot concerning T-172:

"On a visit to Nuremberg in february [sic] 1995, Hiroshi Kondo and Shigeru Sugawara had the pleasure of meeting the celebrated Magic inventor, Lubor Fiedler. Lubor showed them an idea he had been working on, using prototype props he had fashioned himself. The effect was so stunning and seemingly impossible that even the two great magical masters from Japan were completely fooled. They kept asking him to repeat the effect over and over again, behaving like novice schoolboy magicians at a magic counter! Lubor, obviously pleased with their enthusiasm, informed them that he had Tenyo in mind when he created the trick. Still baflled by the ingenuity of Lubor's creation, and after several more performances of the trick, Hiroshi and Shigeru were finally let in on the secret. Lubor permitted them to take the prototype back to Japan to show to the Tenyo staff. It was an immediate hit. We then spent six months of hard work on modifications and refinements to the design and the adaptation of the props and packaging for the Tenyo product line..."

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby Roger M. » December 19th, 2018, 2:17 pm

I've always maintained that Invisible Zone is probably the best trick Tenyo ever put out (I've not seen every single Tenyo trick, so perhaps there is one better, subjective as it all might be)
Done properly, at the right speed, and with just a bit of rehearsal ... it's impossible to figure out, and can bring even the most jaded magic viewer into a state of complete amazement.

In my head, I use the trick as a measuring stick for most other magic.
If "it's" not at least as good as Invisible Zone, I usually pass on purchasing or learning it.

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 19th, 2018, 2:52 pm

Lubor's trick embodies every one of Tenyo's goals in a magic trick. And it's genius as well.
When it first came out, I was visiting Denny's magic shop with Jon Racherbaumer. We were both fooled.
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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby erdnasephile » December 19th, 2018, 3:36 pm

My favorite variation with this prop is the one with the clay.

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby Joe Mckay » December 19th, 2018, 4:15 pm

I sometimes wonder if this trick looks better without the spring in the middle?

I saw it done this way on TV once. It looked good.

But looking back, maybe it removes another throw-off from the method?

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 19th, 2018, 4:54 pm

No, it does not look better. The spring is important to both the visible and psychological illusion.
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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby hexapling » December 19th, 2018, 6:04 pm

I just tried what Richard suggested and the secret is still glaringly obvious. Any other way? A pen s***ch perhaps?

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby Dave Le Fevre » December 20th, 2018, 5:53 am

I happened to wander into Davenports shortly after Invisible Zone was released. They performed it for me, and said that usually they received a demo video of the performance from Tenyo so they could see the effect before knowing the modus operandi. But this time there'd been no video, so they weren't sure how good it looked.

I assured them that it looked absolutely amazing, and I handed over my money.

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 20th, 2018, 11:08 am

hexapling wrote:I just tried what Richard suggested and the secret is still glaringly obvious. Any other way? A pen s***ch perhaps?


Sorry, but you are wrong. You can take my experience in performing it as well as the experience of the creator.
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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby MagicbyAlfred » December 20th, 2018, 12:11 pm

I daresay that challenging Richard in connection with any Tenyo item is a bit like calling Newton to task on gravity.
http://www.magicweek.co.uk/magic_review ... aufman.htm

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby hexapling » December 20th, 2018, 7:15 pm

I probably am wrong, but can you or someone please send me some sort of written or brief video instructions? It's a really rare and expensive prop and I don't want to take the whole thing apart without some sort of visual confirmation it's possible to do so. Again, I can proof I'm the rightful owner of this by uploading my instructions together with my username via PM.

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 20th, 2018, 7:25 pm

I'm telling that you can just pull the whole thing apart and put it back together again. Easy.
It's not rare, or expensive.
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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby hexapling » December 20th, 2018, 9:17 pm

What I meant by rare and expensive was that no one sells Invisible Zone any more. Can't find it in any magic shops. It's a discontinued Tenyo product. So I'm afraid I'll pull apart the wrong components and screw the prop up.

The black cap of the pen cannot be removed. Won't spectators find that suspicious?

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 20th, 2018, 10:57 pm

My memory is that the cap does come off. But it's been a while since I've done it.
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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby erdnasephile » December 20th, 2018, 11:18 pm

This topic of this thread is discussed in RK's wonderful Tenyoism (pg 698-699) including details regarding Lubor Fiedler's personal handling. (It involves more than just taking the prop apart.) Danny Orleans also is mentioned in Tenyoism as having success in allowing IZ to be examined briefly (although he does not disassemble the prop).

(I'll leave it to RK if he wants to disclose the details of Mr. Fiedler's personal handling here. Out of respect for RK and Tenyoism purchasers, I will not tip).

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby hexapling » December 21st, 2018, 2:20 am

My bad, my cap also comes off (in the 19 years of owning it, this is the first time I've realized! :lol: )

But the end is just a stub, not what you'd find on a regular pen.

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby I.M. Magician » December 21st, 2018, 2:27 am

I found three different demos on YouTube of Lubor Fiedler doing Invisible Zone. The best one is where he places all of the pieces on a small dust pan but it ends there and the spectators do not handle the pieces.

If I am not mistaken, you can hear RK’s voice on that demo so he is present.

The reality is that, if you hand out all of the pieces to be examined, it is only a matter of time before someone sees something funny. Disassembling the trick is one thing...having the spectators handle the pieces is another. I am not going into more detail because I don’t want to expose the method here.

It appears to me that Lubor stops short of actually having the spectators put their paws on the parts of the trick.

Can you get away with it sometimes? I suppose so! All of the time? Nope! Too risky...

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby Roger M. » December 21st, 2018, 12:33 pm

You're still a magician, and Invisible Zone is still just a magic trick, so things like misdirection, timing and spectator management still apply, whether you choose to take it apart, or leave it assembled.

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby hexapling » December 21st, 2018, 5:31 pm

I guess so...Maybe I'll start with the non examinable Tenyos (Eclipse, Trisector, Invisible Zone) then finish off with the ones which can be handed out? (Squeeze Play and Crystal Cleaver). So the specs forget about the non-exambinable ones.

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 22nd, 2018, 2:32 pm

I suggest you get a set of Dynamic Coins. Easy and examinable.
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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby hexapling » December 22nd, 2018, 6:19 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:I suggest you get a set of Dynamic Coins. Easy and examinable.


Already have, too simple for them. The people I'm performing too keep suggesting that I let them examine everything that I perform, after performing an unexaminable Hot Rod pen and appearing cane. They are of scientific/computing/medical background and need to inspect everything. Not happy when they can't. :roll:

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby erdnasephile » December 22nd, 2018, 10:54 pm

With respect, often the desire to inspect can be mitigated by strong, entertaining and deceptive presentations (sometimes helped along by the impression of skill and competence). I have some experience performing for the science types. I've found the former is essential in being successful with them. I would also recommend Michael Close's latest big book ("The Paradigm Shift") where he discusses two types of cognitive systems as they apply to performing magic. That material is especially relevant when performing for these types of people. You also might try to establish your sleight of hand bona fides with some ordinary objects before you whip out the Tenyo, where many times all of the heat is on the prop. Good luck!

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby MagicbyAlfred » December 22nd, 2018, 11:04 pm

It sounds like you're performing repetitively for the same folks and that they are viewing your magic as a puzzle and your performances as a battle of wits. As fun and clever as the Tenyo tricks are, they are, in the end done with apparatus that looks out of the ordinary. Logic then dictates to those of a scientific and/or technical bent, that the apparatus is responsible for the "magic" - and they are right. If you desire to keep performing for these people, I suggest you perform tricks where, once the effect is completed, they can examine the prop until their hearts' content, and would never find a clue in the prop itself. Just as some examples among many: Out of this World, Triumph, 3 Card Monte or Color Monte, Sponge Balls, Crazy Man's Handcuffs, Professor's Nightmare and/or other rope effects, and Cups and Balls. Tricks you can do with ordinary objects - ideally objects borrowed from them, or tricks where the magic happens in their hands, and you are clean at the end are bound to be effective. Finally, sucker effects such as That's it, The Circus Card Trick, The Three and a Half of Clubs are also likely to be effective vehicles for both fooling and entertaining them - and teaching them a bit of respect in the bargain.

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby MagicbyAlfred » December 22nd, 2018, 11:09 pm

Erdnasephile, I honestly had not seen your post prior to writing mine. Your post seemed to just "magically appear." But clearly, we were on the same wavelength - and eerily, at virtually the same time...

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby hexapling » December 22nd, 2018, 11:59 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:It sounds like you're performing repetitively for the same folks and that they are viewing your magic as a puzzle and your performances as a battle of wits.


Agree. They are my relatives which I'm forced to see every year end. I'm normally known for my card magic where everything is examinable at the end (ACR, lots of John Guastaferro routines, Blizzard, triumph, etc), even some card gaffs, but I can easily ditch them at the end. This year, they've expressed a tiredness for my cards and want to watch something different.

Many thanks, I'll have a bit of a research re your advice. One of my cousins is newly engaged. Again, Joshua Jay's Waltzing Cheek to Cheek comes to mind but the deck is heavily gimmicked...

Anyway, back to the point. So I will not let anyone examine Invisible Zone then. Better be safe than sorry. Appreciate all you guy's feedback and suggestions. Thanks.

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Re: Invisible Zone T-172 Handing out for Examination?

Postby Dave Le Fevre » December 23rd, 2018, 5:23 am

MagicbyAlfred wrote:It sounds like you're performing repetitively for the same folks and that they are viewing your magic as a puzzle and your performances as a battle of wits

Exactly my reaction too. Colleagues, friends, and family don't view me as "the magician who's here to entertain us" but as "Dave, who's doing a magic trick for us". So I tend not to perform for them.

Years ago I worked with a load of engineers, and while they enjoyed my magic some of them didn't want any presentation, just "the trick". So I didn't perform for them.

Also had a friend who wished to examine everything. She didn't demand to examine, she didn't subject everything to minute scrutiny, but she requested to look at everything, even a coin or an elastic band. It was nothing more than curiosity. She was nice, but the continuous interruptions meant that I stopped performing for her.

I suspect that many of us went through a phase where if an audience member treated a performance as a challenge, a puzzle to be solved, then we performed a stronger effect (and thus a tougher challenge/puzzle). Nowadays I simply smile, express regret that they weren't entertained, and walk away. Why would I try to entertain people who don't want to be entertained by me? Cannot offhand remember the last time that it happened, but yes, I simply walk away.

Dave


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