ERDNASE

Discuss general aspects of Genii.
Bob Coyne
Posts: 506
Joined: January 26th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Charlies
Location: Montclair, NJ

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » June 7th, 2018, 6:11 pm


Roger M.
Posts: 1348
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » June 7th, 2018, 6:16 pm

From the description in the ebay blurb, it would seem to be an item that could be sold, and then re-sold again and again ... endlessly.

It's seems to be little more than some information and a few photos ... and the seller is making no claims of exclusivity.

Bob Coyne
Posts: 506
Joined: January 26th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Charlies
Location: Montclair, NJ

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » June 7th, 2018, 7:16 pm

Roger M. wrote:From the description in the ebay blurb, it would seem to be an item that could be sold, and then re-sold again and again ... endlessly.

It's seems to be little more than some information and a few photos ... and the seller is making no claims of exclusivity.

yeah, the question is what is the information. I messaged the seller on ebay asking if this "something very secret" that "breaks the case" was actually related to Erdnase's identity (vs something completely different). The unhelpful response was "that's why you have to buy it."

Roger M.
Posts: 1348
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » June 7th, 2018, 7:25 pm

Bob Coyne wrote:.......The unhelpful response was "that's why you have to buy it."


It sounds too much like a scam.

The Burnaby Kid
Posts: 14
Joined: February 6th, 2018, 3:29 am

Re: ERDNASE

Postby The Burnaby Kid » June 7th, 2018, 8:10 pm

So... when this thread hits 2 million views, how will you guys be celebrating? I'm thinking Arby's.

Leonard Hevia
Posts: 1694
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Dai Vernon, Frank Garcia, Slydini, Houdini,
Location: Gaithersburg, Md.

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » June 7th, 2018, 8:59 pm

The Burnaby Kid wrote:So... when this thread hits 2 million views, how will you guys be celebrating? I'm thinking Arby's.


I don't believe anybody who posts on this thread is fixated on the amount of views, but if that's your bag TBK, by all means continue counting all day and knock yourself out.

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 7809
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 7th, 2018, 9:13 pm

I don't know what's "very secret" or what they mean by "breaks the case". The all caps disclaimer at the bottom was a fun read.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Bob Coyne
Posts: 506
Joined: January 26th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Charlies
Location: Montclair, NJ

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » June 7th, 2018, 9:17 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:I don't know what's "very secret" or what they mean by "breaks the case". The all caps disclaimer at the bottom was a fun read.

Yeah, pretty ironic that it says "ASK QUESTIONS BEFORE BUYING PLEASE. WE DO NOT WANT ANY MISUNDERSTANDING ON DESCRIPTIONS" but then they refused to answer my simple question! :-)

Tom Gilbert
Posts: 700
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: NH
Contact:

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Gilbert » June 7th, 2018, 9:21 pm

My guess on the "secret something" from the eBay seller is either Erdnase is M. D. Smith or it's Chris's ebook.

Bob Coyne
Posts: 506
Joined: January 26th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Charlies
Location: Montclair, NJ

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » June 7th, 2018, 10:00 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote:As of May 28, 2018, Bob updated his linguistic analyses between Sanders and Erdnase:

http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~coyne/erdna ... guage.html

I just made another update -- a new section in the addendum (link below) that includes a new photo of Sanders. It's a college class photo similar to one that's been published before. But in this one, everyone is standing, and it's possible to get a sense for how tall he was relative to his classmates.

I do a bit of measuring and analysis, comparing the relative heights in the photos to the reported heights in the class biographical sketches that Sanders compiled. From that, it seems like Sanders could have been anywhere from 5'6 to 5'8 1/2, depending on which classmates' heights were accurate and which were exaggerated.

http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~coyne/erdnase-sanders-use-of-language.html#class-photo

Leonard Hevia
Posts: 1694
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Dai Vernon, Frank Garcia, Slydini, Houdini,
Location: Gaithersburg, Md.

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » June 7th, 2018, 11:31 pm

Great find Bob! I would put Sanders in the 5'8 range . He appears to be slightly taller than Starek on the far left who is 5'7 and a half, and shorter than Englehardt who is 5'10. All three men appear to be standing on the same back step.

Bob Coyne
Posts: 506
Joined: January 26th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Charlies
Location: Montclair, NJ

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » June 8th, 2018, 12:49 am

Leonard Hevia wrote:Great find Bob! I would put Sanders in the 5'8 range . He appears to be slightly taller than Starek on the far left who is 5'7 and a half, and shorter than Englehardt who is 5'10. All three men appear to be standing on the same back step.

I agree that's most likely and that we can safely cap Sanders' height in the 5'8 range. This makes him roughly compatible with Smith's 45 year old recollection/estimation that Erdnase was 5'5 to 5'7.

However, I think there's some chance that Sanders was shorter than that (as low as 5'6). The tall guy (Whitman) is on the same back/top step too. And if his height of 6'1 is accurate, then the others (Sanders, Englehardt, Molkenke) are all inflating their heights. We know that men exaggerate their heights by an inch on average, and it seems more likely that the average or short ones would be the ones to do that. In that case, and assuming Whitman is actually 6'1, then Sanders would be about 5'6. However, it's also possible that Whitman, being tall already, is somewhat under-reporting (or rounding down) his height. So there could be a combination of factors.

Bob Coyne
Posts: 506
Joined: January 26th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Charlies
Location: Montclair, NJ

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » June 8th, 2018, 1:54 am

Bob Coyne wrote:However, I think there's some chance that Sanders was shorter than that (as low as 5'6). The tall guy (Whitman) is on the same back/top step too. And if his height of 6'1 is accurate, then the others (Sanders, Englehardt, Molkenke) are all inflating their heights. ...

After a bit more research, I think the 6'1 whitman height has to be thrown out. I found a reference online to the height of the tallest person in the back row (wiltsee), who apparently claimed to be 6'5. From the two class photos where they're both standing, it looks like whitman was a little over an inch shorter...my guess is 6'3 1/2, which puts Sanders back around 5'8, which is similar to what we can derive by comparing him to the other people in that row.

rrath1
Posts: 15
Joined: November 13th, 2014, 1:44 pm
Favorite Magician: Kaufman

Re: ERDNASE

Postby rrath1 » June 8th, 2018, 4:13 pm

You guys are funny. Cheap but funny. The information is the first time anybody knows where M.D. Smith is buried... We know where Houdini is buried. Thurston, Don Alan, Blackstone, etc all have grave sites, but where is M.D. Smith? As far, as the 'secret', if you are interested in EATCT, then you will love to see what this has to do with it. Asking questions, is not like 'What is the Secret". Really! The information is exclusive because Scott Lane and Bob Rath discovered the grave site. So, you what me to copyright the information? :lol:

Bill Mullins
Posts: 4765
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » June 8th, 2018, 4:56 pm

Marshall Smith was buried here.

User avatar
Brad Jeffers
Posts: 865
Joined: April 11th, 2008, 5:52 pm
Location: Savannah, GA

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Jeffers » June 8th, 2018, 6:30 pm

Why is the Marshall Smith info posted next to a photo of someone else's grave?

Roger M.
Posts: 1348
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » June 8th, 2018, 7:05 pm

Brad Jeffers wrote:Why is the Marshall Smith info posted next to a photo of someone else's grave?

That pic is used for a few "Smiths", presumably ones without a photo of the actual stone.
Look a little lower on the page and you'll see the same photo, for a different Smith.

Scott Lane is involved ... that's enough information for me :roll:

User avatar
Zenner
Posts: 115
Joined: September 30th, 2008, 8:49 pm
Favorite Magician: Al Koran
Location: Derbyshire, England

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Zenner » June 8th, 2018, 7:08 pm

rrath1 wrote:You guys are funny. Cheap but funny. The information is the first time anybody knows where M.D. Smith is buried... We know where Houdini is buried. Thurston, Don Alan, Blackstone, etc all have grave sites, but where is M.D. Smith? As far, as the 'secret', if you are interested in EATCT, then you will love to see what this has to do with it. Asking questions, is not like 'What is the Secret". Really! The information is exclusive because Scott Lane and Bob Rath discovered the grave site. So, you what me to copyright the information? :lol:


But that's no secret, Bob. The information is on the Find A Grave web-site

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/113351549


Ooops - when I submitted the above I found that Bill had already done it!

Bill Mullins
Posts: 4765
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » June 8th, 2018, 7:51 pm

Brad Jeffers wrote:Why is the Marshall Smith info posted next to a photo of someone else's grave?


It's a family plot -- the names on the stone are those of M. D. Smith's parents.

Roger M.
Posts: 1348
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » June 9th, 2018, 12:16 am

rrath1 wrote:The information is the first time anybody knows where M.D. Smith is buried...


Really, would you care to elaborate?

In the absence of a detailed explanation, it would appear that you're:
    ridiculously uninformed
    lying
    simply crazy

The floor is now yours ...

rrath1
Posts: 15
Joined: November 13th, 2014, 1:44 pm
Favorite Magician: Kaufman

Re: RE: Re: ERDNASE

Postby rrath1 » June 9th, 2018, 1:59 am

Roger M. wrote:
rrath1 wrote:The information is the first time anybody knows where M.D. Smith is buried...


Really, would you care to elaborate?

In the absence of a detailed explanation, it would appear that you're:
    ridiculously uninformed
    lying
    simply crazy

The floor is now yours ...
Buy it.

Sent from my LGUS995 using Tapatalk

Roger M.
Posts: 1348
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: RE: Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » June 9th, 2018, 9:49 am

rrath1 wrote:......
Buy it.
Sent from my LGUS995 using Tapatalk


LOL ... I wouldn't buy a newspaper or a hotdog from you nut-jobs! :lol:

rrath1
Posts: 15
Joined: November 13th, 2014, 1:44 pm
Favorite Magician: Kaufman

Re: ERDNASE

Postby rrath1 » June 9th, 2018, 6:21 pm

Unfortunately Roger M. (or whoever your name is) others have and are quite pleased. It will one day become public knowledge, photographs and all. On that day, I will take comfort in knowing, I don't just write 1500 posts (i.e. Roger M) in Genie Forum, but go out and do research. Walk the streets like when I was a paperboy, and you know what 'a lot of people bought newspapers from me too'. Now if the location and view of the grave isn't enough, there's more to the story. Again, it would have no meaning but to the real researchers of EATCT. Answers to What's on the Death Certificate, What's on the receipt for the Grave Stone/Marker, Who bought the Grave Stone, and where? What's on the back of the Memorial Grave Stone? Who all else is in the family plot? Any connection to EATCT? Who buried him? Many questions well beyond "a simple memorial grave search". I do take offensive to your language and insults. Just saying...

Leonard Hevia
Posts: 1694
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Dai Vernon, Frank Garcia, Slydini, Houdini,
Location: Gaithersburg, Md.

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » June 9th, 2018, 6:35 pm

rrath1 wrote:Unfortunately Roger M. (or whoever your name is) others have and are quite pleased. It will one day become public knowledge, photographs and all. On that day, I will take comfort in knowing, I don't just write 1500 posts (i.e. Roger M) in Genie Forum, but go out and do research. Walk the streets like when I was a paperboy, and you know what 'a lot of people bought newspapers from me too'. Now if the location and view of the grave isn't enough, there's more to the story. Again, it would have no meaning but to the real researchers of EATCT. Answers to What's on the Death Certificate, What's on the receipt for the Grave Stone/Marker, Who bought the Grave Stone, and where? What's on the back of the Memorial Grave Stone? Who all else is in the family plot? Any connection to EATCT? Who buried him? Many questions well beyond "a simple memorial grave search". I do take offensive to your language and insults. Just saying...


My goodness--you came out of nowhere to teach posters here a lesson. You swagger quite a bit for a fellow who writes poorly with incomplete sentences and misspellings. Genii is spelled G-e-n-i-i--not Genie, and you take "offense"--not "offensive." When you write 1,500 posts like Roger has, your writing improves--but you're not interested in improving your writing skills are you? Middle school students rarely are.

Any connection to EATCT? Certainly not. Smith told Gardner all that he remembered when he took the job in 1901, which is in the Smith Gardner Correspondence book. The "real researchers" as you put it, already know this.

Bill Mullins
Posts: 4765
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » June 9th, 2018, 6:38 pm

rrath1 wrote: Answers to What's on the Death Certificate, What's on the receipt for the Grave Stone/Marker, Who bought the Grave Stone, and where? What's on the back of the Memorial Grave Stone? Who all else is in the family plot? Any connection to EATCT? Who buried him?


If copies of these documents are what is being sold on Ebay, it is useful to know this. I won't buy a pig in a poke. I have, in the past, spent money to find out information.

rrath1
Posts: 15
Joined: November 13th, 2014, 1:44 pm
Favorite Magician: Kaufman

Re: ERDNASE

Postby rrath1 » June 9th, 2018, 7:09 pm

Leonard Hevia, I do apologize, texting and driving is against the law. I never studied English like you. Most foreigners do that. Quick to criticize, insult but nothing to contribute except 'its all in the Gardner Correspondences'. What if Gardner got it wrong? What if M.D. Marshall was lying? But why would he lie? Would the grave site answer one of those questions? Gardner is not the only researcher working the mystery of EATCT. 'Who was Endrase' was a good read, but hardly non-fiction.

rrath1
Posts: 15
Joined: November 13th, 2014, 1:44 pm
Favorite Magician: Kaufman

Re: ERDNASE

Postby rrath1 » June 9th, 2018, 7:11 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:
rrath1 wrote: Answers to What's on the Death Certificate, What's on the receipt for the Grave Stone/Marker, Who bought the Grave Stone, and where? What's on the back of the Memorial Grave Stone? Who all else is in the family plot? Any connection to EATCT? Who buried him?


If copies of these documents are what is being sold on Ebay, it is useful to know this. I won't buy a pig in a poke. I have, in the past, spent money to find out information.


Yes, they are included with the informational package.

Roger M.
Posts: 1348
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » June 9th, 2018, 7:21 pm

rrath1 wrote:Unfortunately Roger M. (or whoever your name is)
......Errrrr, it's Roger M. If you'd like to know my last name, tell me why you need it and I'd be glad to message it to you. Otherwise no need to doubt my name ... that is of course unless you've got nothing of value to contribute to the conversation but doubting my name - you wouldn't be the first person to pop up in this thread with 4 posts trying to sell something, but with essentially nothing of value to say.

rrath1 wrote:I do take offensive to your language and insults. Just saying...

Sorry, but you DO sound like a nut job. Perhaps consider participating in the discussion in a manner that isn't trying to hawk something on eBay for money, and I'd be glad to apologize to you for past misdeeds ... but until then, you're just another crazy person who's found this thread and jumped in like you own the place. :lol:

Your posts sound exactly like Scott Lanes posts ... blabbering on endlessly about Erdnase, but saying absolutely nothing.

Brad Henderson
Posts: 3764
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Henderson » June 9th, 2018, 7:35 pm

why does it seem that the arrival of those who have something to sell invariably turns the thread to crap?

it seem that those interested in FINDING the truth are far more open minded and intellectually honest than those interested in SELLING it.

i will take this as one of the inevitable downsides of capitalism.

rrath1
Posts: 15
Joined: November 13th, 2014, 1:44 pm
Favorite Magician: Kaufman

Re: ERDNASE

Postby rrath1 » June 9th, 2018, 7:44 pm

Roger M. wrote:
rrath1 wrote:Unfortunately Roger M. (or whoever your name is)
......Errrrr, it's Roger M. If you'd like to know my last name, tell me why you need it and I'd be glad to message it to you. Otherwise no need to doubt my name ... that is of course unless you've got nothing of value to contribute to the conversation but doubting my name - you wouldn't be the first person to pop up in this thread with 4 posts trying to sell something, but with essentially nothing of value to say.

rrath1 wrote:I do take offensive to your language and insults. Just saying...

Sorry, but you DO sound like a nut job. Perhaps consider participating in the discussion in a manner that isn't trying to hawk something on eBay for money, and I'd be glad to apologize to you for past misdeeds ... but until then, you're just another crazy person who's found this thread and jumped in like you own the place. :lol:

Your posts sound exactly like Scott Lanes posts ... blabbering on endlessly about Erdnase, but saying absolutely nothing.


Nut Job, Crazy person, Blabbering, insults to fellow researchers (Scott Lane), you must be a very pleasant guy to be around. By the way, been in the forum since it started. I have had many a convention dinners with Richard. Just recently, changed internet services, therefore, registered in over 50 discussion groups with new id's and new passwords. Lifelock said that would be a good idea.

rrath1
Posts: 15
Joined: November 13th, 2014, 1:44 pm
Favorite Magician: Kaufman

Re: ERDNASE

Postby rrath1 » June 9th, 2018, 7:49 pm

Just to be clear here. I never posted anything for sale here. I was responding to posts from other members of the forum. When my phone rings, and tells me of threads concerning my material, I responded. Brad, didn't you publish material on EATCT? Did you sell it?

Brad Henderson
Posts: 3764
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Henderson » June 9th, 2018, 8:06 pm

my observation is with how the sale of something changes people. there seems to be a marked difference in attitude between those who are looking for the sake of knowledge and those looking for the sake of profit, regardless of when and why they joined the discussion

And while i have explored some ideas on the topic i have neither published them nor sold them.

rrath1
Posts: 15
Joined: November 13th, 2014, 1:44 pm
Favorite Magician: Kaufman

Re: ERDNASE

Postby rrath1 » June 9th, 2018, 8:16 pm

I understand that and agree. Sat many times with you in hotel lobbies discussing card tricks. Lol

Sent from my LGUS995 using Tapatalk

Leonard Hevia
Posts: 1694
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Dai Vernon, Frank Garcia, Slydini, Houdini,
Location: Gaithersburg, Md.

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » June 9th, 2018, 8:32 pm

rrath1 wrote:Leonard Hevia, I do apologize, texting and driving is against the law. I never studied English like you. Most foreigners do that. Quick to criticize, insult but nothing to contribute except 'its all in the Gardner Correspondences'. What if Gardner got it wrong? What if M.D. Marshall was lying? But why would he lie? Would the grave site answer one of those questions? Gardner is not the only researcher working the mystery of EATCT. 'Who was Endrase' was a good read, but hardly non-fiction.


Ha, ha! Good one Bill!

Yes--there's quite a bit of information in the Smith Gardner Correspondence. Mentioning the book IS a contribution to this thread to anyone interested in the identity of Erdnase. Gardner was certainly not the only researcher but was the first researcher to think of looking for Marshall Smith and dig up more information. If there are any other researchers working the mystery beyond the ones who post here, they haven't revealed themselves yet. Perhaps you know their identities? Then you can tell us who they are and contribute something.
Last edited by Leonard Hevia on June 9th, 2018, 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rrath1
Posts: 15
Joined: November 13th, 2014, 1:44 pm
Favorite Magician: Kaufman

Re: RE: Re: ERDNASE

Postby rrath1 » June 9th, 2018, 8:33 pm

My sister was a neighbor of Tom Selleck in Westlake. Met him once.
Bill Mullins wrote:
Roger M. wrote:
rrath1 wrote:Unfortunately Roger M. (or whoever your name is)
......Errrrr, it's Roger M. If you'd like to know my last name, tell me why you need it and I'd be glad to message it to you.

Roger Mosely, former co-star of Magnum PI.

Image


Sent from my LGUS995 using Tapatalk

rrath1
Posts: 15
Joined: November 13th, 2014, 1:44 pm
Favorite Magician: Kaufman

Re: RE: Re: ERDNASE

Postby rrath1 » June 9th, 2018, 8:38 pm

I know of two that will no longer post here. Both deeply invested with money in the subject. When it's time. Waiting on announcements.
Leonard Hevia wrote:
rrath1 wrote:Leonard Hevia, I do apologize, texting and driving is against the law. I never studied English like you. Most foreigners do that. Quick to criticize, insult but nothing to contribute except 'its all in the Gardner Correspondences'. What if Gardner got it wrong? What if M.D. Marshall was lying? But why would he lie? Would the grave site answer one of those questions? Gardner is not the only researcher working the mystery of EATCT. 'Who was Endrase' was a good read, but hardly non-fiction.


Ha, ha! Good one Bill!

Yes--there's quite a bit of information in the Smith Gardner Correspondence. Mentioning the book IS a contribution to this thread to anyone interested in the identity of Erdnase. Gardner was certainly not the only researcher but was the first researcher to think of looking for Marshall Smith and dig up more information. If there are any other researchers working the mystery beyond the ones who post here, they haven't revealed themselves yet. Perhaps you know their identities? Then you can tell us who they are and contribute something.


Sent from my LGUS995 using Tapatalk

Roger M.
Posts: 1348
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: RE: Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » June 9th, 2018, 9:44 pm

rrath1 wrote:I know of two that will no longer post here. Both deeply invested with money in the subject. When it's time. Waiting on announcements.


So much drama ... but no loss.

rrath1
Posts: 15
Joined: November 13th, 2014, 1:44 pm
Favorite Magician: Kaufman

Re: RE: Re: ERDNASE

Postby rrath1 » June 9th, 2018, 10:36 pm

Roger M. wrote:
rrath1 wrote:I know of two that will no longer post here. Both deeply invested with money in the subject. When it's time. Waiting on announcements.


So much drama ... but no loss.


I appreciate that. Long way from Really, would you care to elaborate?

In the absence of a detailed explanation, it would appear that you're:
ridiculously uninformed
lying
simply crazy

The floor is now yours ...

rrath1
Posts: 15
Joined: November 13th, 2014, 1:44 pm
Favorite Magician: Kaufman

Re: ERDNASE

Postby rrath1 » June 9th, 2018, 10:42 pm

I do want to say, to all, thanks for the controversy discussion. My idea was to sell only 5 units of the informational package. As of this morning I had sold two. One to Chris for his ebook. But since this post exploded sold 3 more. One left, and that's it. I am selling no more informational package on this subject. The individuals who bought it will do the rest. My job is done.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Erdnase-Expert ... 3024!US!-1


Return to “General”