Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Stay tooned.
- Richard Kaufman
- Posts: 27067
- Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
- Location: Washington DC
- Contact:
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Wow indeed! The first clip is Marc Paul on the famous Parkinson show on British TV. If anyone wonders exactly what the Berglas effect looks like when David himself does it--this is it, the real thing, no [censored] (no slight meant to Marc, who's an old friend of mine, but David sells it better).
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
-
- Posts: 82
- Joined: January 21st, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Arlington VA
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
It almost forces one to think that the person who calls out the number is in on it.
Arnie Fuoco
- Matthew Field
- Posts: 2846
- Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Slydini
- Location: Hastings, England, UK
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
It might "almost force" you to think that, but you'd be wrong.Originally posted by Arnie Fuoco:
It almost forces one to think that the person who calls out the number is in on it.
Both Richard and I have been on the receiving end of the trick done by David Berglas himself, and believe me, it is a shocker!
As soon as you introduce the phone and the 'random' phone number, you lose the entire thrust of the trick. (An aside: does anyone's cell phone dial with just seven numbers punched in?) Then the magician takes the cards out of the case and deals.
Too bad.
Matt Field
-
- Posts: 82
- Joined: January 21st, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Arlington VA
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Matt,It might "almost force" you to think that, but you'd be wrong.
Both Richard and I have been on the receiving end of the trick done by David Berglas himself, and believe me, it is a shocker!
Not questioning Berglas performing it since I haven't been fortunate to see it. But in this one case with Marc Paul doing it I wonder if he is really using the Berglas method. The mystery lives on.
I agree the video with the cell phone has too many external opportunities for forcing the number. Not even close to an ACAAN IMO.
Arnie Fuoco
- Richard Kaufman
- Posts: 27067
- Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
- Location: Washington DC
- Contact:
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
I believe that Marc Paul is using David's real method.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
-
- Posts: 380
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Chester, UK
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
I apologise for having not seen the clip but I wonder if Marc was using his own method which is called (funnily enough) "Affected by Berglas" which is sold by Kaymar Magic (Uk) for 12 about $24
The effect is A pack of cards is fanned out and a spectator is asked to name any card he sees. A second spectator is asked to name any number between 1 and 52 The fan is closed and the cards are handed to a third spectator who deals down and reveals the named card at the named number!!
I wonder if the clip is Marc Pauls version of this reputation making effect?
The effect is A pack of cards is fanned out and a spectator is asked to name any card he sees. A second spectator is asked to name any number between 1 and 52 The fan is closed and the cards are handed to a third spectator who deals down and reveals the named card at the named number!!
I wonder if the clip is Marc Pauls version of this reputation making effect?
Best John
-
- Posts: 8709
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Westchester, NY
- Contact:
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
What specifically leads you to this belief?Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
I believe that Marc Paul is using David's real method.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
It's not his marketed trick - "Affected by Berglas"
Peter
Peter
- Tom Frame
- Posts: 1349
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Del Ray
- Location: San Francisco
- Contact:
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Oh my God!! At last, I have witnessed The Berglas Effect, via Marc Paul. It is the greatest effect that I have ever seen! I am kneeling and trembling and drooling in reverent awe....
-
- Posts: 380
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Chester, UK
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Then I agree it is the best effect that I have ever seen. I remember when it was shown at Christmas time (maybe Boxing day?) and I assumed it was his marketed effect...now Peter and Richard have confirmed it isn't then that effect is tuly amazing....
Best John
- Richard Kaufman
- Posts: 27067
- Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
- Location: Washington DC
- Contact:
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
When Berglas did the effect for me, I was only one there, and so named the card, number, and did the dealing. Otherwise it was absolutely the same. Let's torture Marc Paul--I think he'll crack sooner than David.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
-
- Posts: 22
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Portland, OR
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
When tricks are soooooo incredibly unbelievable, I often leap to the 'stooge' conclusion.
When that conclusion is wrong...well damn it is an awesome trick! :eek:
When that conclusion is wrong...well damn it is an awesome trick! :eek:
-
- Posts: 380
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Chester, UK
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
I have been playing arounf with Affected by Berglas and watced the clip a few times now. I am indeed wondering if it is Affected by Berglas. Marc's own take on the Berglas Effect plus some pre-show work. If no pre show work was involved then it must be the Berglas effect.
Best John
- Reinhard Mueller
- Posts: 155
- Joined: February 8th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Passau Germany
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Is there a method? Or was it pure chance?Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
I believe that Marc Paul is using David's real method.
- Richard Kaufman
- Posts: 27067
- Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
- Location: Washington DC
- Contact:
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
It's definitely a "method." If it was merely good luck, Berglas wouldn't hit it so often.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
-
- Posts: 3310
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Short card above selection.
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Method: Before the show starts the mentalist asks one person to think of a number and one of card, write their choices down and keep the notes in their pockets. He tells the participants that during the show he'll ask for ther card abd number.
Using the age-old mentalism trick, he now knows both pieces of information.
When the show is being broadcast, the prior info used because by this time the deck is stacked.
Note in the demo that it is the mentalist who picks the participants and decides who wiull think of a number and who a card.
Or maybe this is all wrong and it's just The Bammo Dekronomicon.
Using the age-old mentalism trick, he now knows both pieces of information.
When the show is being broadcast, the prior info used because by this time the deck is stacked.
Note in the demo that it is the mentalist who picks the participants and decides who wiull think of a number and who a card.
Or maybe this is all wrong and it's just The Bammo Dekronomicon.
- Richard Kaufman
- Posts: 27067
- Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
- Location: Washington DC
- Contact:
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Bob, that's an excellent method. But I've had Berglas do it to me twice and not ask me any questions or do any pre-show work. He just did it!
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
- Tom Frame
- Posts: 1349
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Del Ray
- Location: San Francisco
- Contact:
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Well, damn! After compulsively viewing the clip, I have burst my own bubble of amazement by concluding that it was accomplished by pre-show work. Thus, it was not (methodologically) the Berglas Effect that Richard and Matthew experienced.
I base my conclusion on the anxiety exhibited by both McCutcheon and Parkinson. Their anxiety felt real, not staged.
Here's my interpretation of what occured: Before the taping, Mr. Paul asked Ms. McCutcheon to think of any card, and to remember it for later, during the taping of the show. He probably sold her on the idea by explaining that it would save time during the taping, and it would spare her the anxiety of being "put on the spot" by being asked to spontaneously think of a card.
Marc did similar pre-show work with Parkinson, asking him to think of any number from 1-52. He used the same (comforting) rationale with him.
The tape rolls and Marc explains the premise. Both Parkinson and McCutcheon are anxious. They want to look like "good" participants, and they want Marc to wow the crowed.
When Marc asks McCutcheon to name her card, she is thrown off balance, because the last thing she heard was Marc describing to Parkinson that he is to think of a number. This is the Recency Effect. The last thing McCutcheon remembered involved numbers.
This explains why she replies that "I might have ruined this for you, because it's not a number card." Her anxiety increases, as she misperceives Marc's question. Since her (previously) "thought of" card is a picture card, she worries that she will ruin the effect. She maintains grace under fire and announces her (predetermined)card.
Similarly, when Marc asks Parkinson to "Give me a number between 1 and 52", Parkinson responds, "Give you the number NOW? This suggests that Parkinson has dutifully remembered the number for some time, and is now double-checking that it is the appropriate time for him to reveal it. He does so.
The effect works as planned, though both McCutcheon and Parkinson seem only mildly impressed. I suspect that they were both thankful that the anxiety-provoking ordeal was over.
That is my informed analysis. What do you think?
I base my conclusion on the anxiety exhibited by both McCutcheon and Parkinson. Their anxiety felt real, not staged.
Here's my interpretation of what occured: Before the taping, Mr. Paul asked Ms. McCutcheon to think of any card, and to remember it for later, during the taping of the show. He probably sold her on the idea by explaining that it would save time during the taping, and it would spare her the anxiety of being "put on the spot" by being asked to spontaneously think of a card.
Marc did similar pre-show work with Parkinson, asking him to think of any number from 1-52. He used the same (comforting) rationale with him.
The tape rolls and Marc explains the premise. Both Parkinson and McCutcheon are anxious. They want to look like "good" participants, and they want Marc to wow the crowed.
When Marc asks McCutcheon to name her card, she is thrown off balance, because the last thing she heard was Marc describing to Parkinson that he is to think of a number. This is the Recency Effect. The last thing McCutcheon remembered involved numbers.
This explains why she replies that "I might have ruined this for you, because it's not a number card." Her anxiety increases, as she misperceives Marc's question. Since her (previously) "thought of" card is a picture card, she worries that she will ruin the effect. She maintains grace under fire and announces her (predetermined)card.
Similarly, when Marc asks Parkinson to "Give me a number between 1 and 52", Parkinson responds, "Give you the number NOW? This suggests that Parkinson has dutifully remembered the number for some time, and is now double-checking that it is the appropriate time for him to reveal it. He does so.
The effect works as planned, though both McCutcheon and Parkinson seem only mildly impressed. I suspect that they were both thankful that the anxiety-provoking ordeal was over.
That is my informed analysis. What do you think?
-
- Posts: 3310
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Short card above selection.
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Richard, neither Tom nor I are saying that this is how Berglas does his effect -- he's performing live, one-on-one.
What is interesting is that magicians are fooled because of what they know about the Berglas effect and this blinds them to the simple solution when a similar-looking effect is presented on television.
What is interesting is that magicians are fooled because of what they know about the Berglas effect and this blinds them to the simple solution when a similar-looking effect is presented on television.
-
- Posts: 82
- Joined: January 21st, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Arlington VA
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Tom,
In your explanation do McCutcheon and Parkinson inform Paul what card and number they will say when the show is on? If they do, then they shouldn't be impressed at all. What do you think?
In your explanation do McCutcheon and Parkinson inform Paul what card and number they will say when the show is on? If they do, then they shouldn't be impressed at all. What do you think?
Arnie Fuoco
- Tom Frame
- Posts: 1349
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Del Ray
- Location: San Francisco
- Contact:
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Arnie,
I think that I have suffiently described the pre-show work that may have been done to explain both the successful climax of the effect, as well as the rather non-plussed reactions from the people involved. What more are you looking for...?
I think that I have suffiently described the pre-show work that may have been done to explain both the successful climax of the effect, as well as the rather non-plussed reactions from the people involved. What more are you looking for...?
-
- Posts: 382
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Columbia, MO
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Knowing nothing about the Berglas effect,Originally posted by Tom Frame:
Well, damn! After compulsively viewing the clip, I have burst my own bubble of amazement by concluding that it was accomplished by pre-show work. Thus, it was not (methodologically) the Berglas Effect that Richard and Matthew experienced.
....
That is my informed analysis. What do you think?
and just watching the video, I think you are right...or more right than other (lack of) explanations. My only concern as a performer would be : what if one of the two will forget the number/card (or even worse: change it on purpose)? I think that in order not to forget it (or change it on purpose) one has to be more strongly involved than being told "just in order to save time and spare the anxiety". After all, how difficult is it to think of a card.
The other issue is the interpretation of the 4 boundary conditions. Isn't the pre-show arrangement to be considered as an effective creation of 2 stooges?
Carlo
- Richard Kaufman
- Posts: 27067
- Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
- Location: Washington DC
- Contact:
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Pre-show work is not at all the same as using stooges. The folks who are "pre-showed" do not know how the effect works--information is gleaned from them, or they are requested to do a certain thing, without any secrets being exposed to them.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
-
- Posts: 382
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Columbia, MO
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
I see. From my point of view I see absolutely no difference whether a stooge is someone who knows or not the work to be done or its secret. Maybe for you magicians it has a specific connotation, but when I read "no stooges" I immediately think that the perfomer has not prearranged anything with another person, which is what the message is supposed to convey anyway. If not this would be a subtle way to cheat, more appropriately, a loophole that would set perfomer's mind at peace.Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Pre-show work is not at all the same as using stooges. The folks who are "pre-showed" do not know how the effect works--information is gleaned from them, or they are requested to do a certain thing, without any secrets being exposed to them.
Interesting point of view here. This would have been very appropriate in the Hooker thread.
Carlo
- Tom Frame
- Posts: 1349
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Del Ray
- Location: San Francisco
- Contact:
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Excellent summation, Richard. Oh how I wish that I were in your (and Matthew's) shoes when David created this extraordinary magic moment for you!!!
The tortures of the knowing and the not-knowing propell us forward, yes??
The tortures of the knowing and the not-knowing propell us forward, yes??
-
- Posts: 75
- Joined: January 20th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: New Jersey
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
What we don't know here is how many effects Marc Paul performed on the show before he did the finale. The effect prior to ACAAN appears to be of an oil and water type of variety.......three red cards and three black cards and the comment from Marc Paul at the end "very, very, very strange" seems to refer to their ability to mix and/or non-mix. So that's one trick before ACAAN. But there had to be one other effect before the oil and water that involved a manila envelope. I say this because at video frame 02:46 Parkinson appears to be handing Marc Paul an envelope. It's almost like Parkinson is clearing the stage of all this mentalist paraphernalia so that Marc Paul can walk off with all the stuff he brought with him . What does this envelope have to do with the ACAAN effect? Perhaps the number that Parkinson was supposed to call out for the ACAAN effect was written somewheres on the envelope so that he wouldn't forget it. Parkinson spent a lot of time looking down at something.
I don't think that anyone outside of David Berglas himself would even attempt to perform the true ACAAN on a National TV Talk Show at that.
When you're dealing with Corporate endorsements for tradeshows and tradefairs throughout England and beyond I don't think you risk making yourself look bad in front of the TV camera.
Marc Paul is no _______; well, you know the rest of the story (thank you Paul Harvey)
I don't think that anyone outside of David Berglas himself would even attempt to perform the true ACAAN on a National TV Talk Show at that.
When you're dealing with Corporate endorsements for tradeshows and tradefairs throughout England and beyond I don't think you risk making yourself look bad in front of the TV camera.
Marc Paul is no _______; well, you know the rest of the story (thank you Paul Harvey)
- Richard Kaufman
- Posts: 27067
- Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
- Location: Washington DC
- Contact:
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
David Berglas, quite simply, has balls of steel. You really have to admire someone who is willing to go for it so often, particularly when the thing you're going for is not a sure thing. He says that he it would be impossible to explain all the minute details and intuition that go into a performance of Any Card at Any Number and, having seen it, and spoken to him for many hours about so much of what he did in the past, I don't doubt his words.
Carlo, a "stooge" is (to magicians) someone to whom you have exposed the inner workings of a trick in order to achieve a desired end. Saying to someone before a show, "When I ask you for a number, pick 5," is using a stooge. When an illusionist asks for a volunteer from the audience and the person who comes up has his shirt pulled off--that's a stooge. Only a person whose shirt has been put on in a certain bizarre way in advance can have his shirt pulled off--and that's a stooge.
Carlo, a "stooge" is (to magicians) someone to whom you have exposed the inner workings of a trick in order to achieve a desired end. Saying to someone before a show, "When I ask you for a number, pick 5," is using a stooge. When an illusionist asks for a volunteer from the audience and the person who comes up has his shirt pulled off--that's a stooge. Only a person whose shirt has been put on in a certain bizarre way in advance can have his shirt pulled off--and that's a stooge.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
- Steve Bryant
- Posts: 1947
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Ballantine
- Location: Bloomington IN
- Contact:
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
If you read the Alain Nu treatise, Any Card ..., he also has balls of steel, performing the trick with a tv deal riding on it.
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Richard:
So, lemme get this straight......Parkinson _can't_ be in on the trick since his shirt fits OK? Is that it?
;-)
D
So, lemme get this straight......Parkinson _can't_ be in on the trick since his shirt fits OK? Is that it?
;-)
D
-
- Posts: 382
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Columbia, MO
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
So, I am asking, can we call a stooge someone who was not exposed to the inner workings of a trick but yet the person is helping the perfomerOriginally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Carlo, a "stooge" is (to magicians) someone to whom you have exposed the inner workings of a trick in order to achieve a desired end. Saying to someone before a show, "When I ask you for a number, pick 5," is using a stooge.
and acting AS IF he had no previous contact with him?
Can we call a stooge someone who's being told
before the show "Pick a number now. You said 5? Good. Pick the same number later."
Are you saying that they two situations are so fundamentally different?
Carlo
-
- Posts: 382
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Columbia, MO
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
PS: I meant the two situations quoted above.Originally posted by Carlo Morpurgo:
Can we call a stooge someone who's being toldOriginally posted by Richard Kaufman:
[b] "When I ask you for a number, pick 5," is using a stooge.
before the show "Pick a number now. You said 5? Good. Pick the same number later."
Are you saying that the two situations are so fundamentally different?
[/b]
- Richard Kaufman
- Posts: 27067
- Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
- Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
- Location: Washington DC
- Contact:
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
This is a stooge: "Pick a number now. You said 5? Good. Pick the same number later."
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
-
- Posts: 382
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Columbia, MO
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Then I guess I am not understanding what Tom wrote earlier:Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
This is a stooge: "Pick a number now. You said 5? Good. Pick the same number later."
"Here's my interpretation of what occured: Before the taping, Mr. Paul asked Ms. McCutcheon to think of any card, and to remember it for later, during the taping of the show."
I understood this as Ms. McCutcheon actually telling the card during pre-work, not merely thinking one. I was assuming that this is the kind of pre-work he was referring to.
If this is the case then she was a stooge.
Carlo
-
- Posts: 82
- Joined: January 21st, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Arlington VA
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
That's also my problem such that I asked for a clarification on earlier. From Tom's explanation it is not clear whether the spectator tells Marc Paul the number he is thinking of, before the show.Then I guess I am not understanding what Tom wrote earlier:
Arnie Fuoco
-
- Posts: 75
- Joined: January 20th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: New Jersey
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Ah,yes!.......Steve, you are absolutely correct I read the same thing too in reference to Alain Nu tipping the scale in his favor for four(4) hours of TV Special work by performing HIS ACAAN for the Learning Channel TV Executives. But is the Alain Nu method the exact same as the David Berglas method? I doubt it as quoted by David Berglas himself "your manuscript is superb, well thought out and the best in-depth look at ACAAN that I have seen".
Richard already described the perfect (Berglas) method posted January 12,'08 under the Genii Forum topic: Looking for a good ACAAN.
1. A memorized deck (I'm speculating at least four(4)memorized deck sequences.)
2. A bridge in the middle of the deck.
3. And balls of steel!
Richard already described the perfect (Berglas) method posted January 12,'08 under the Genii Forum topic: Looking for a good ACAAN.
1. A memorized deck (I'm speculating at least four(4)memorized deck sequences.)
2. A bridge in the middle of the deck.
3. And balls of steel!
- Marco Pusterla
- Posts: 517
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Suffolk - UK
- Contact:
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
In Marc Paul's "Affected by Berglas", the magician doesn't need to know the card or the number: it's a perfectly practical method. The use of "pre-show" (completely justified in this context: Parkinson's was one of the most prestigious shows on British television) would simply allow the performance to run smoothly and quicker (as both the number and the card have been pre-determined). Tom's description has been the most clear possible of the effect without giving away the details of its workings.Originally posted by Arnie Fuoco:
That's also my problem such that I asked for a clarification on earlier. From Tom's explanation it is not clear whether the spectator tells Marc Paul the number he is thinking of, before the show.Then I guess I am not understanding what Tom wrote earlier:
-
- Posts: 382
- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
- Location: Columbia, MO
Re: Berglas Effect .... WOW...
Ok...then I guess that this trick is really composed of two parts, one part we (the public) we see on video, and another part we do not see.Originally posted by Marco Pusterla:
In Marc Paul's "Affected by Berglas", the magician doesn't need to know the card [b]or the number: it's a perfectly practical method. The use of "pre-show" (completely justified in this context: Parkinson's was one of the most prestigious shows on British television) would simply allow the performance to run smoothly and quicker (as both the number and the card have been pre-determined). Tom's description has been the most clear possible of the effect without giving away the details of its workings. [/b]
We only see the second part, but for the 2 guests it's only one thing. You can easily make it so that the magician does not need to know the card or the number, the two guests doing all the work and still be totally puzzled later. Certainly this is the kind of involvement they need in order not to mess up the card.
But for me, the idea that later they have to pick the same card and number it's still stooge work, even if indirect. It's simply not fair to the public.
New question: can we call a stooge someone who's been told before the show: "Pick a number, don't tell me. Do this and that with the deck. Later, pick the same number."
Carlo