Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

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Brad Jeffers
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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Brad Jeffers » September 16th, 2020, 12:00 am

martinsmagic wrote: ... I think I'll track down a suitable calculator and see what I can do.

There are hundreds of TI-85s for sale on Ebay.

Could someone who has one of these graphics calculators and the users manual; and who has a thorough understanding of how the Fitch Cheney card trick works; be able to program the calculator to perform this effect?

I'm pretty sure I couldn't do it.

Would it be difficult?

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Chas Nigh » September 16th, 2020, 12:39 am

If anyone is interested in the Fitch Cheney 5 Card Trick find it here- https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/ ... ey-mulcahy

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Chas Nigh » September 16th, 2020, 12:42 am


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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby martinsmagic » September 16th, 2020, 2:33 am

Brad Jeffers wrote:
martinsmagic wrote: ... I think I'll track down a suitable calculator and see what I can do.

There are hundreds of TI-85s for sale on Ebay. Could someone who has one of these graphics calculators and the users manual; and who has a thorough understanding of how the Fitch Cheney card trick works; be able to program the calculator to perform this effect?
I'm pretty sure I couldn't do it.
Would it be difficult?


Hi Brad,

Firstly the Al Stanger calculator combined with the John Mendoza routine is quite a lot more than the standard Fitch Cheney effect as described in the link above - it is 4 phases and the final phase completely breaks away from the Fitch Cheney approach. Gaetan Bloom's contribution is primarily to simplify and streamline John's 4 phase routine. In both versions of the routine (John's or Gaetan's) the program for the calculator does the same thing. It is effectively the same 3 phases with increasingly more convincing and fair ways of choosing the cards, with a final phase which is totally different and does not rely on the same Fitch Cheney system. You would ideally need the program and the routine if you were to tackle this.

But once you have figured out the method there is not a lot of code for the basic 1-3 phase routine so I don't think it is beyond the scope of an average programmer. But you need to be familiar with writing code, I don't think it is something you could tackle if you were not a programmer. Programmers think differently to non-programmers :) However, what makes it even trickier is that the programming interface for these old devices is nothing like we are used to today. When the TI-85 came out in 1992 I had a IBM RS/6000 520 Workstation at work and one in my apartment and at the time this was one of the fastest and most sophisticated computers available (and close to $25k each if I recall) and it was easy to bang out the code with advanced program editors, etc. But the interface for these calculators is mundane at best and the languages - TI-Basic or an assembler look alike are not very sophisticated so they require more lines of code to get the same results. For newer devices (like iphones etc) there are SDK's (Software Development Kits) that allow you to create the programs on a regular PC and then download it to the device. But I'm not sure if that sort of system is available for these older devices from 30 years ago.

Then if you use the TI-85's you still have the battery issue - I think this is a real issue, and I have a working one here. It turns out that as far as I can see these graphical calculators were battery backed up (i.e. volatile memory) until the early 2000's. And the challenge is finding a calculator that looks old enough to be as genuine as the TI-85 but be new enough to be able to have non-volatile memory. These devices were small and unlike in the PC's and work stations of the early 90's you could not slap a disk in one of these and SSD's were not really available as we are used to today. So it took another decade before it got easier to store things permanently on disk or SSD for a reasonable price. Given that most of these early graphical calculators used back-up batteries it clearly was not such a big deal to the users, but we have been spoiled and are used to things hanging around after the battery dies.

So long story short - even if you had the routine and the the method unless you are a programmer I don't think this is something you could begin to tackle and programming these devices is quite a different discipline to what most programmers are used to. So I would rate this quite a hard project.

If I can find a suitable graphical calculator I want to try it - but after my first post I've realized that finding a suitable calculator that looks old and yet has non-volatile RAM is much harder than I expected. I've always been a Unix/Linux guy since the late 1970's so this world is a little foreign to me.

And it might be tempting to strip away things or try it on tablets and/or smart phones, but when I went down this road 10+ years ago it was not very rewarding. The key things that I believe you need to keep for this effect to stay entertaining and amazing are:
    Old looking calculator
    Non-Volatile memory
    Basic or similar "high" level language
    Must be graphical - one of the key fun parts of the routine is watching the symbols for the cards get slowly "painted" on the screen. In fact the slower the better. This is another issue with modern, faster devices is they draw things instantly.

Ok that should be enough :geek:

andy
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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Joe Mckay » September 16th, 2020, 2:38 am

I haven't followed closely the approaches to this plot made by mathematicians. It seems to have become quite popular with mathematicians over the past ten years.

In terms of magicians who have tackled this plot - I really like the work Alex Elmlsey had on this plot in The Looking Glass. Also - Lewis Jones has some brilliant work on this plot as the final trick in Person To Person (the best book of telephone magic ever published).

That final trick has the most complex method for a trick I have ever seen. He manages to use 4 cards to encode 4 cards. It is incredible... and very complicated. He even found a way to use 4 cards to encode 5 cards. It is pretty astonishing.

Also - here is an interesting approach to the problem:

http://cardcolm.org/Pics/2014_11%20Thre ... uffice.pdf

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby erdnasephile » September 16th, 2020, 7:28 am


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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Tom Frame » September 16th, 2020, 9:31 am

Oooh, that final phase is excruciatingly exquisite! I cannot fathom how the participant can input the cards in any order.

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby erdnasephile » September 20th, 2020, 12:59 pm

Last edited by erdnasephile on September 20th, 2020, 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby erdnasephile » September 20th, 2020, 1:02 pm

BTW, Mr. Mendoza's statement about protection that I referred to earlier is from the instructions:

"The programs used in this machine are copyright and protected and any attempt to extract or transfer any or all of them will be prosecuted. The hardware for this has been modified to prevent and indicate any attempts and tampered machines will not be re-set under any circumstances"

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby AJM » September 20th, 2020, 1:52 pm

erdnasephile wrote:There's one on ebay now:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/John-Mendoza-M ... SwRxBfZnKd


The seller is unsure if it works...who is willing to bet $300 plus on an old calculator?

Incidentally, I’m not sure a device with A, J, Q, K & suit stickers on the keys would suggest an innocent calculator.

Andrew

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Bob Farmer » September 20th, 2020, 4:21 pm

I have a decades old Radio Shack astrology calculator that looks really cool:

https://www.handheldmuseum.com/Tandy/Astro.htm

Too bad it is not programmable; it would a nice prop for this trick.

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby erdnasephile » September 20th, 2020, 8:29 pm

AJM wrote:
erdnasephile wrote:There's one on ebay now:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/John-Mendoza-M ... SwRxBfZnKd


The seller is unsure if it works...who is willing to bet $300 plus on an old calculator?

Incidentally, I’m not sure a device with A, J, Q, K & suit stickers on the keys would suggest an innocent calculator.

Andrew


Andrew:

You certainly make a fair point. Caveat emptor (However, it should be an easy matter to contact the seller and determine whether the calculator works--there's a self test in the instructions that could quickly be run by the seller)

PS: I'm certainly not endorsing the auction. I have nothing to do with it and don't know the seller. Just trying to be helpful (I hope).

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Roger M. » October 8th, 2020, 3:17 pm

Just a quick note to let owners of the Poker Machine know that, although his address was shared in confidence, and thus I can't share it ... I did try to contact Al Stranger a few weeks ago now, and he has chosen not to respond.
I was specific in that contact, clarifying that John's passing results in nobody able to reprogram the device.
In my conversations with John, he did tell me that he did quite a bit of re-programing for Poker Machine owners over the years, with inadvertent dead batteries as the prime reason for those reprogramming needs.

So the Poker Machine is unfortunately on life support, with nobody around to either program, or offer up the documentation required to reprogram the device should the batteries die, or should the program itself become corrupted.

The demise of the Poker Machine is unfortunate, as it was (and still is) a brilliant effect.

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby AJM » October 8th, 2020, 3:49 pm

The Miracle Poker Machine and documentation on eBay (link provided above by Erdnasephile) is still available after failing to sell on two previous occasions.

Anyone willing to bet $300 to find out if it still works?

(It’s not mine by the way).

Andrew

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Brad Jeffers » October 9th, 2020, 2:37 pm

AJM wrote:Anyone willing to bet $300 to find out if it still works?

The seller says ...

"I turned it on so it powers up but I don’t know if it still works"
"If not it might just need to be reset which John goes over in his notes"
"There will be NO REFUNDS"

Translation ...

It doesn't work.

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Joe Lyons » October 9th, 2020, 2:46 pm

"You will need to get new batteries they are not included"

I think that put a nail in it.

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Leonard Hevia » October 11th, 2020, 9:54 am

The seller is now on his 4th attempt. The previous listings ended on 9/23, 10/3, and 10/10. He won't take no for an answer. As long as he refuses to give a refund if the calculator doesn't work, he's never going to jettison the device.
eBay backs the seller 100%. If the calculator no longer has the program, they will not force the seller to return the money.

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Tom Frame » October 11th, 2020, 12:53 pm

The seller says, "It comes with the calculator and detailed notes from John himself how to set it all up and his routines."

So even if the battery is dead, couldn't you just replace the battery and "set it all up", which I assume means to re-program it?

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 11th, 2020, 2:05 pm

I think PayPal might back a buyer on this one if it can be demonstrated that the device does not work no matter what provided information is followed.
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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Leonard Hevia » October 11th, 2020, 2:26 pm

Tom Frame wrote:The seller says, "It comes with the calculator and detailed notes from John himself how to set it all up and his routines."

So even if the battery is dead, couldn't you just replace the battery and "set it all up", which I assume means to re-program it?


Sure--if you know how to input Mendoza's program back into the calculator. Apparently only Mendoza knew how to re-program it. I think Mendoza's notes are the instructions to operate the calculator--not how to program it. The part about the detailed notes from John himself how to set it all up is the bait.

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby martinsmagic » October 11th, 2020, 4:26 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote: I think Mendoza's notes are the instructions to operate the calculator--not how to program it. The part about the detailed notes from John himself how to set it all up is the bait.


Leonard,
John also sent out supplemental instructions to fix the calculator should it get in a strange state (which certainly happens). However, these are only useful if the program is still loaded on the calculator. I'm quite sure this is the detailed notes he is referring to, but they won't do anything if the batteries at any time were dead.

The problem with pretty much all of these graphics calculators from the 1990's is they required battery back-up all the time. So they came with two sets of batteries which in theory allowed you to switch out one set with the other set keeping the charge. However, on two occasions whilst John was alive I had the situation where everything was working and I switched out one set of the batteries for brand new ones and then the calculator failed and I had to return it to John. It was always a little frustrating. And now of course there is no solution should it happen again.
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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Leonard Hevia » October 11th, 2020, 5:53 pm

martinsmagic wrote:And now of course there is no solution should it happen again.


Exactly--which is why the Mendoza notes the seller pointed out are useless should the calculator fail to have the program. Thanks for the clarification.

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Roger M. » October 12th, 2020, 9:39 am

Let's make it crystal clear for those who might consider such eBay offerings as are referenced above.

John, at no point in time, sent the programming information to anybody.
Nobody but John (and perhaps Stranger) possess the information required to program the device such that it becomes the Poker Machine effect.
John made the above facts clear to me in a series of discussions I had with him on those occasions when I was obliged to return my Poker Machine to him for re-programming.

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Bill Mullins » October 12th, 2020, 11:59 am

Hewlett Packard has made a number of nice graphing calculators over the years, and at one time, I used to be proficient in programming some of them. I think I could pick it back up, and am wondering about recreating what Andy Martin did in his video in an HP 48S.
Phases 1 and 2 are pretty straightforward. Phase 3, a little less so, since the suit of the encoded card isn't represented in the 4 coding cards, and the Fitch-Cheney methods I've seen aren't compatible with that. But I seem to recall (maybe in one of Colm Mulcahy's write ups?) a way to account for that.
But phase 4 stumps me. Can anyone point me in the direction of how that one is accomplished?
(I'm wondering if Andy was cutting to a location where he and the caculator had memorized a bank of 5 cards, and by entering 4 of them, the 5th was revealed).

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Brad Henderson » October 12th, 2020, 12:26 pm

Correct. You lead the spectator to the same original bank of 5 cards. When the computer sees four of the set it knows the fifth.

Also / there are two routines with the calculator. The one as sold originally and Bloom’s.

The original (if I recall) is essentially the Fitch Cheney twice followed by the kicker where the calculators memory is used to reveal the missing card of the set.

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Mike Powers » October 12th, 2020, 1:04 pm

Check out "Code 5" in Power Plays. It allows two people to do basically what the computer does. One person leaves the room as a spectator selects 5 random cards from the other magician. This magician then leaves the room without any communication with the first person who returns. The spectator is told to hide one of the five cards and show the other five. The magician can then tell the spectator the identity of the hidden card.

Mike

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Bill Mullins » October 13th, 2020, 12:56 am

Brad Henderson wrote:You lead the spectator to the same original bank of 5 cards.

If you hadn't said "original bank", I never would have caught that we had seen these cards before (which, I suppose, is exactly what is supposed to happen . . .)

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Bill Mullins » November 19th, 2020, 5:05 pm

George Blake's books Major Magic and Commercial Card Magic have some work on this plot. They involve things like coding to the partner by how the four cards are named -- either with or without "the" in front of the names of the cards, and with or without "and" in the spaces between; or putting the cards into ascending order (by value, then CHSD suit order) and calling them out in an order that specifies value and again coding suit by whether or not "and" appears between the names of the cards.

It seems that Blake was told of the problem by Rusduck, so he refers to it as the R & B Problem (Rusduck & Blake), without reference to Fitch Cheney.

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Cesaral Magic » November 23rd, 2020, 4:57 pm

I would be pleased to add to my Cesaral Ultimate Magic Calculator this Poker Machine routine if anyone is interested.

Here is my calculator:

http://cesaral.com/shop/en/see-all/28-c ... lator.html

Please email me to cesaral@cesaral.com if you are interested.

Thanks!

Cesar Alonso - Cesaral Magic
www.cesaral.com

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby martinsmagic » January 23rd, 2021, 1:47 am

Hello everyone,

I am pleased to announce that a new device has just been released by Chris Wasshuber and Gaetan Bloom at Lybrary.com.
You can see close-up photos, watch a demo video and read my review here.
I love what Chris has done with this unit and will be using this instead of the Al Stanger version going forward.

andy
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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Tom Frame » January 23rd, 2021, 8:18 am

Andy,

Hmm. This is tempting. You mentioned that you added the Poker Boy label. Does the original device bear that awful "Arduboy" appellation as depicted in the final photo?

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby MagicbyAlfred » January 23rd, 2021, 8:51 am

I noticed that in phase 1 on the video, the name of the hole card is audibly announced by the magician before the machine makes its revelation of that card. I was curious as to whether it was necessary to do it that way, since it might raise suspicion that the machine was audibly cued as to the card's identity? Would it not be a more desirable procedure to say nothing aloud as to the hole card's identity and have the machine make its revelation first, and only then turn over the hole card to show that the machine was correct?

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Jack Shalom » January 23rd, 2021, 9:20 am

I understand how this might be interesting to the mathematically inclined who understand the mathematical difficulties of cueing here, but the rest of world? I confess that I'm not even sure what the effect is here. "Look what this older piece of electronics can do"? Doesn't feel much like magic to me, anymore than turning on an eight transistor radio and having music play. What's the framing of this that will give it maximum impact?

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Leonard Hevia » January 23rd, 2021, 9:29 am

Jack--as I understand it a poker hand of 5 cards is inputed into the device. A hole card is designated by the spectator and the device somehow knows the identity of that card. Is that right?

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby martinsmagic » January 23rd, 2021, 9:32 am

Tom Frame wrote:Andy,

Hmm. This is tempting. You mentioned that you added the Poker Boy label. Does the original device bear that awful "Arduboy" appellation as depicted in the final photo?


Hi Tom - yes it does have the Arduboy label - but it was a simple change to add the label and I was very happy with how it looks. It all depends on how you want to present it. The whole Poker Boy title was my idea as it fitted in with the Game Boy patter.

I would have performed it a lot more over Christmas but ended up performing a covid friendly show to my friends and family with no touching.

I really like it, and can't tell you how pleased I am not to have to worry about the battery issue with the old one.

andy
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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby martinsmagic » January 23rd, 2021, 9:37 am

MagicbyAlfred wrote:I noticed that in phase 1 on the video, the name of the hole card is audibly announced by the magician before the machine makes its revelation of that card. I was curious as to whether it was necessary to do it that way, since it might raise suspicion that the machine was audibly cued as to the card's identity? Would it not be a more desirable procedure to say nothing aloud as to the hole card's identity and have the machine make its revelation first, and only then turn over the hole card to show that the machine was correct?


Hi Alfred,

It is not necessary to do it that way. However, when I used to perform the old Stanger version part of the fun was waiting to see what the calculator graphics would show because it looked like it could miss, so the suspense builds up. I'm sure if was able to perform it more other presentations would come to mind which I hope to get to in the coming year. All I know is my wife, god bless her, really liked the effect and she has seen the other version a few times too.

andy
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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby Tom Frame » January 23rd, 2021, 10:03 am

martinsmagic wrote:
Tom Frame wrote:Andy,

Hmm. This is tempting. You mentioned that you added the Poker Boy label. Does the original device bear that awful "Arduboy" appellation as depicted in the final photo?


Hi Tom - yes it does have the Arduboy label - but it was a simple change to add the label and I was very happy with how it looks. It all depends on how you want to present it. The whole Poker Boy title was my idea as it fitted in with the Game Boy patter.


How did you replace the label? If I impulsively purchase this devise, I'll use acetone to see if I can erase "Arduboy." I live in San Francisco and that name still gives me creepy shivers.

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby MagicbyAlfred » January 23rd, 2021, 10:12 am

martinsmagic wrote:
MagicbyAlfred wrote:I noticed that in phase 1 on the video, the name of the hole card is audibly announced by the magician before the machine makes its revelation of that card. I was curious as to whether it was necessary to do it that way, since it might raise suspicion that the machine was audibly cued as to the card's identity? Would it not be a more desirable procedure to say nothing aloud as to the hole card's identity and have the machine make its revelation first, and only then turn over the hole card to show that the machine was correct?


Hi Alfred,

It is not necessary to do it that way. However, when I used to perform the old Stanger version part of the fun was waiting to see what the calculator graphics would show because it looked like it could miss, so the suspense builds up. I'm sure if was able to perform it more other presentations would come to mind which I hope to get to in the coming year. All I know is my wife, god bless her, really liked the effect and she has seen the other version a few times too.

andy


Hi Andy,

Thanks for the reply. I hope you didn't view my comment as being a criticism of how good the routine as a whole is, or as anything other than a constructive suggestion based on my own impressions and opinion after watching the video.. I understand your point about the desirability of a build-up -- waiting to see if the machine hits or misses. As one possible suggestion, why not try an intermediate procedure where the hole card is first turned over and shown, but not orally announced (thus eliminating the suspicion that it was voice-prompted) and then, after a few dramatic moments, the machine reveals that it got it correct.

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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby martinsmagic » January 23rd, 2021, 10:23 am

Tom Frame wrote:How did you replace the label? If I impulsively purchase this devise, I'll use acetone to see if I can erase "Arduboy." I live in San Francisco and that name still gives me creepy shivers.

Tom,

I just unscrewed the back and stuck the label over the Arduboy. Took a few minutes with no creative or technical skills.

andy
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martinsmagic
Posts: 18
Joined: August 6th, 2020, 12:51 am
Favorite Magician: Robert Harbin, Fred Kaps
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Re: Looking for al Stranger miracle poker machine

Postby martinsmagic » January 23rd, 2021, 10:28 am

MagicbyAlfred wrote:Thanks for the reply. I hope you didn't view my comment as being a criticism of how good the routine as a whole is, or as anything other than a constructive suggestion based on my own impressions and opinion after watching the video.. I understand your point about the desirability of a build-up -- waiting to see if the machine hits or misses. As one possible suggestion, why not try an intermediate procedure where the hole card is first turned over and shown, but not orally announced (thus eliminating the suspicion that it was voice-prompted) and then, after a few dramatic moments, the machine reveals that it got it correct.


Alfred,

This is basically how I used to perform the Stanger so it has stuck with me. I would need to perform it more to see the reactions - to be honest I had hoped to perform it a lot over Christmas, but covid stopped me in my tracks. I will look at your suggestion when I next get the opportunity to perform this - which looks like it will be a while.

Thanks for your input,

andy
Martin's Magic Collection
The Largest Online Collection of Rare, Vintage, and New Magic!


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