Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 27th, 2020, 10:42 pm

Maybe the sight of openly displayed duplicates is so strange that the deal and turnover action goes by the same way we ignore blinks. And it is only an instant before two more duplicates are shown and again one goes face up then the next face down.
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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Brad Jeffers » May 28th, 2020, 11:21 am

Bill Duncan wrote:Some time back there was a video on the net of Peter doing the routine for his director, or acting coach. He performed the routine and she gave some notes. It was wonderful.

Here is a link to that video ...

https://youtu.be/8N3cacfqhpA?t=88

You'll note that he was using the Hamman count in those early days.

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby MagicbyAlfred » May 28th, 2020, 11:48 am

Thanks for posting that. I really enjoyed watching that beautifully performed and presented routine. Of course, I am partial to routines that are wrapped up in an engaging story well-told. You could see from the look of delight and wonder on his director's face how well he had hooked her in. As a personal preference/observation, I prefer the count Peter used in that presentation to the necktie second that was apparently adopted later. To my eye, the count just looks more natural and deceptive - especially since he broke it up and paused upon the appearance of the wild card - an example of excellent and disarming timing and misdirection.

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Brad Jeffers » May 28th, 2020, 1:38 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote: I prefer the count Peter used in that presentation to the necktie second that was apparently adopted later.

So do I.

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Philippe Billot » May 28th, 2020, 4:00 pm

Me too. (I know: it's not correct)

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Jack Shalom » May 28th, 2020, 6:42 pm

My DVD player just broke down, but David Regal in David Regal in the UK has a Wild Card from blanks to Aces (makes sense!) and his initial display does not have the usual 4 alike, Wild Card, 4 alike pattern. I think it's called something like Cheating At Cards. Worth looking at. I think it's in Approaching Magic as well, under a different name.

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 28th, 2020, 10:42 pm

He has an item called The Cheating Kit: https://davidregal.com/cheating-kit
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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Bill Duncan » May 29th, 2020, 12:03 am

Thank you Brad. And Peter.

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Jack Shalom » May 29th, 2020, 7:58 am

He has an item called The Cheating Kit: https://davidregal.com/cheating-kit


Yes, that's the one. Let me see if I can find the written description.

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Bill Duncan » May 30th, 2020, 12:04 am

Drat. This thread has got me thinking about that tired old trick. I've been doing an impromptu Wild Card for a couple of decades, and never thought I needed a gaffed version when the one I do is FASDIU.

But the talk of a slightless version got me curious and I bought JR's book from www.llepub.com

I have to say the Taming the Wild Card routine is kind of brilliant. It's not just easier than the Garcia or Kane version of the effect, it's BETTER.

And best of all, playing with it, I hit upon a presentational idea that makes it a trick that speaks in my voice. So thanks to everyone one who has kept this thread going long enough to wake me up.

cheers

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby MagicbyAlfred » May 30th, 2020, 8:46 am

Bill Duncan Wrote: "And best of all, playing with it, I hit upon a presentational idea that makes it a trick that speaks in my voice."

Fabulous!

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Jack Shalom » May 30th, 2020, 11:34 am

I looked up the Regal trick in Approaching Magic--it's called "Raising Kane."
It starts with a modified Hamman Count of only the blanks, but then requires a pretty difficult sleight--at least too difficult for me. It's a pretty convincing display, though.

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby MagicbyAlfred » May 30th, 2020, 11:58 am

Jack Shalom Wrote: "I looked up the Regal trick in Approaching Magic--it's called 'Raising Kane.' "

I assume the "Raising Cane" title is a play on words since Peter Kane was the creator of at least the core plot behind what Frank Garcia later called ""Wild Card." My understanding is that Kane, a British magician, created "Watch the Ace" in 1962, and that, as far as we know, Frank subsequently came up with a variation of that, which he renamed "Wild Card" (presumably without crediting Kane). Here's an interesting article about it:
https://www.magicalapparatus.com/enchan ... d-ace.html

Philippe?

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby erdnasephile » May 30th, 2020, 1:05 pm

Here is an approach to Wild Card (Danny Korem) I wasn't aware of: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zero-Squared-D ... SwvIJezCp1

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby MagicbyAlfred » May 30th, 2020, 1:35 pm

Just to clarify, according to the article, the link to which I posted above, Lou Tannin came up with the name "Wild Card," after seeing Frank's version/routine of the Kane trick, and allegedly, Lou then marketed Wild Card, without Frank's permission or assistance, although Lou is said to have attributed credit to Frank for the routine.

Curiously, I see no name of an author of the article. However, I am assuming it is Wesley James, since he sets forth his own routine in the article, a hybrid of Watch the Ace and Wild Card, called 'Watch the Wild Ace." Conjuring Archive credits Wesley with said routine.
https://www.conjuringarchive.com/list/s ... e+wild+ace

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby erdnasephile » May 30th, 2020, 2:15 pm

Alfred:

Here is a first hand eye witness report from Harry Riser on how Garcia came to be associated with the routine now known as "Wild Card"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzH9cRs ... e=emb_logo

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 30th, 2020, 2:35 pm

Bill Simon personally told me the story. He was the one who saw Kane's trick in Hugard's and told Lou about it because he thought it might be marketable. Lou asked Frank to come up with a simpler version using gimmicked cards so they could sell the trick. The trick we know as Wild Card is Frank's. It is nothing like any of the other versions of the trick (Hofzinser, Hamman's Mystic Nine, or the Kane trick) that came before it. Frank got roasted, but only because Lou did not mention Peter Kane's name in the instructions, even though it is not the same trick. Wild Card as we know it really began with Hamman's trick "Mystic Nine" in his booklet written by LePaul.
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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby MagicbyAlfred » May 30th, 2020, 2:42 pm

erdnasephile wrote:Alfred:

Here is a first hand eye witness report from Harry Riser on how Garcia came to be associated with the routine now known as "Wild Card"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzH9cRs ... e=emb_logo


Fascinating, thank you!

It appears that Harry Riser's memory of how it all went down does differ in some respects from Bill Simon's...

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 30th, 2020, 4:49 pm

Only slightly, but Riser misses the point that Lou said they were going to put the trick on the market with Frank's name on it.
Note that Frank did not demonstrate Peter Kane's "Watch the Ace" for Lou, but his own routine that he developed pretty damn quickly--and it has stood the test of time.
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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby MagicbyAlfred » May 30th, 2020, 5:41 pm

That is absolutely amazing that Frank came up with it virtually on the spot - a testament to his talent. It's also amazing to think that if Simon had just let Riser and Garcia continue on with their arcane discussion (no pun intended), we might not be having this discussion today...

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 30th, 2020, 6:52 pm

It was Lou Tannen who instigated the whole thing after Bill pointed out the trick in Hugard's.
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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby MagicbyAlfred » May 30th, 2020, 7:24 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:It was Lou Tannen who instigated the whole thing after Bill pointed out the trick in Hugard's.


Ah, I think I've got it straight now.

You might say that in foreseeing the vast potential of the routine, Lou Tannen was a prophet. That's called the prophet motive (pun intended this time; enter collective groans here: ______________________)

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Philippe Billot » May 31st, 2020, 5:33 am

MagicbyAlfred wrote:Jack Shalom Wrote: "I looked up the Regal trick in Approaching Magic--it's called 'Raising Kane.' "

I assume the "Raising Cane" title is a play on words since Peter Kane was the creator of at least the core plot behind what Frank Garcia later called ""Wild Card." My understanding is that Kane, a British magician, created "Watch the Ace" in 1962, and that, as far as we know, Frank subsequently came up with a variation of that, which he renamed "Wild Card" (presumably without crediting Kane). Here's an interesting article about it:
https://www.magicalapparatus.com/enchan ... d-ace.html

Philippe?


Yes, this article is by Weqley James. See in the title the word "Enchantments"

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Philippe Billot » May 31st, 2020, 5:38 am

erdnasephile wrote:Here is an approach to Wild Card (Danny Korem) I wasn't aware of: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zero-Squared-D ... SwvIJezCp1


Thank you. I no longer remember this version. It was marketed in 1978 and the idea comes from Jon Racherbaumer.

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Leonard Hevia » May 31st, 2020, 9:13 am

MagicbyAlfred wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:It was Lou Tannen who instigated the whole thing after Bill pointed out the trick in Hugard's.


Ah, I think I've got it straight now.

You might say that in foreseeing the vast potential of the routine, Lou Tannen was a prophet. That's called the prophet motive (pun intended this time; enter collective groans here: ______________________)


You mean Lou was the prophet of profit?

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby MagicbyAlfred » May 31st, 2020, 11:29 am

"You mean Lou was the prophet of profit?"

:lol: Well put, Leo. Perhaps not on the scale of say, Warren Buffet, but I would guess that Lou conjured up a pretty tidy profit in transforming Wild Cards into cash. (Maybe that's where Eric DeKamps got the idea!)

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby erdnasephile » May 31st, 2020, 3:17 pm

I just read the original report of Kane's trick in HMM. It's the type of thing that people typically skip right over in magazines (card trick, no illustrations, needs gaffs, etc.). IMHO, a person who should also get a lot of credit is Bill Simon for recognizing the gem hiding there in plain view.

Also, it should probably be noted in fairness that Frank Garcia (in "Wild Card Miracles") does give belated credit to Kane (including the HHM citation) for inspiring his routine, along with Bill Simon for pointing out Kane's routine to him. He also credits Bob McCallister (of Wonderama fame) for suggesting the use of the glide.

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 31st, 2020, 5:01 pm

Philippe Billot wrote:
MagicbyAlfred wrote:Jack Shalom Wrote: "I looked up the Regal trick in Approaching Magic--it's called 'Raising Kane.' "

I assume the "Raising Cane" title is a play on words since Peter Kane was the creator of at least the core plot behind what Frank Garcia later called ""Wild Card." My understanding is that Kane, a British magician, created "Watch the Ace" in 1962, and that, as far as we know, Frank subsequently came up with a variation of that, which he renamed "Wild Card" (presumably without crediting Kane). Here's an interesting article about it:
https://www.magicalapparatus.com/enchan ... d-ace.html

Philippe?


Yes, this article is by Weqley James. See in the title the word "Enchantments"


The core plot comes right from Hofzinser's Everywhere and Nowhere, third method. Uses double-ended cards.
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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby MagicbyAlfred » May 31st, 2020, 7:08 pm

"The core plot comes right from Hofzinser's Everywhere and Nowhere, third method. Uses double-ended cards."

The core plot for Wild Card? Or the core plot for Wesley James' Watch the Wild Ace?

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby EdwinCorrie » May 31st, 2020, 7:19 pm

Philippe Billot wrote:
MagicbyAlfred wrote:Jack Shalom Wrote: "I looked up the Regal trick in Approaching Magic--it's called 'Raising Kane.' "

I assume the "Raising Cane" title is a play on words since Peter Kane was the creator of at least the core plot behind what Frank Garcia later called ""Wild Card." My understanding is that Kane, a British magician, created "Watch the Ace" in 1962, and that, as far as we know, Frank subsequently came up with a variation of that, which he renamed "Wild Card" (presumably without crediting Kane). Here's an interesting article about it:
https://www.magicalapparatus.com/enchan ... d-ace.html

Philippe?


Yes, this article is by Weqley James. See in the title the word "Enchantments"


The article is taken directly from the Wesley James book. If you look around the website there are other things lifted from the same book and from other sources. Surely this can't be OK?

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 31st, 2020, 7:25 pm

Wild Card. A row of cards which have been removed from the deck lies on the table. A King of Diamonds (I think) is touched to each card and one at a time they all change to match the King. Uses double-ended cards.

And I see Wesley uses split cards/double-ended cards--an idea in which he was preceded by Hofzinser.
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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby MagicbyAlfred » May 31st, 2020, 8:25 pm

Got it. Yes, after reading Wesley's description of his complicated (gaffed-to-the-hilt) routine, it makes sense that he most likely got the idea for the double-enders from Hofzinser. Wild Card seems like an impromptu trick FASDIU compared to James' Watch the Wild Ace. But the core idea for Wild Card would appear to have its genesis in Hofzinser just as Richard (who obviously knows far more than I ever will) has noted.

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Edward Pungot » June 1st, 2020, 12:14 pm

The Flushtration Count Illusion: Attribute Substitution Tricks Our Interpretation of a Simple Visual Event Sequence.
Cyril Thomas et al. Br J Psychol. 2018. PDF.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://research.gold.ac.uk/23072/3/Thomas%2520et%2520al%25202018.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwi2jdXD_-DpAhV1IDQIHdfnABAQFjABegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw1TXOH8DcusqOBCPS7_VDcq

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Bill Mullins » June 1st, 2020, 5:35 pm

Edward Pungot wrote:The Flushtration Count Illusion: Attribute Substitution Tricks Our Interpretation of a Simple Visual Event Sequence.
Cyril Thomas et al. Br J Psychol. 2018. PDF.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://research.gold.ac.uk/23072/3/Thomas%2520et%2520al%25202018.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwi2jdXD_-DpAhV1IDQIHdfnABAQFjABegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw1TXOH8DcusqOBCPS7_VDcq


Odd how the authors give some psychologist credit for every psychological concept they refer to, but neither Norm Houghton (inventor of the Flushstration Count, Ibidem #1, Jun 1955) or Brother John Hamman (popularizer, marketed trick "Flushtration", Abbott's Magic, 1969) are mentioned at all.

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Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 1st, 2020, 6:30 pm

Congratulations to Gustov Kuhn for another prestigious inclusion of magic into research literature.

[digression][no muggles]
@Bill, that puts magic literature into a paywall/firewall question. https://journalistsresource.org/tip-she ... urnalists/
[/no muggles][/digression] ;)

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby Bob Farmer » June 1st, 2020, 6:48 pm

Bill: Yes, that omission is very strange.

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby erdnasephile » June 1st, 2020, 6:56 pm

EdwinCorrie wrote:
Philippe Billot wrote:
MagicbyAlfred wrote:Jack Shalom Wrote: "I looked up the Regal trick in Approaching Magic--it's called 'Raising Kane.' "

I assume the "Raising Cane" title is a play on words since Peter Kane was the creator of at least the core plot behind what Frank Garcia later called ""Wild Card." My understanding is that Kane, a British magician, created "Watch the Ace" in 1962, and that, as far as we know, Frank subsequently came up with a variation of that, which he renamed "Wild Card" (presumably without crediting Kane). Here's an interesting article about it:
https://www.magicalapparatus.com/enchan ... d-ace.html

Philippe?


Yes, this article is by Weqley James. See in the title the word "Enchantments"


The article is taken directly from the Wesley James book. If you look around the website there are other things lifted from the same book and from other sources. Surely this can't be OK?


I concur: that website is for thieves.

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby MagicbyAlfred » June 1st, 2020, 9:46 pm

I hadn't realized that about that website, which I came across the other day in the course of trying to do some good faith research. I certainly wouldn't have provided the link to it had I known the piece was posted illicitly. It can be a tricky world out there in cyberspace.

As for those psychologists who did that study using the Flustration Count without so much as mentioning Houghton or Hamman, well, clearly they are...

psycho...

...and not very logical.

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Re:

Postby Bill Mullins » June 2nd, 2020, 11:23 am

Jonathan Townsend wrote:@Bill, that puts magic literature into a paywall/firewall question.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here. Any issues about the accessibility of seminal work in the magical literature would apply to the sources that the authors did cite, as well. Kuhn, at least, is plugged into the magic community sufficiently that he should know about Magicpedia, which is where I found the references to Houghton and Hamman (and it took only 30 seconds or so to do so). Ibidem is available on AskAlexander; a short subscription is very inexpensive. In other words, the magic sources are trivially accessible, at least compared to the academic sources they did cite.

All of the reasons that say "cite your sources" in academic scholarship would apply just as much to magic predecessors, as they would to other academic predecessors.


Again, not sure what your intent is by providing this link. But if you need an academic paper and don't have institutional/university connections to large libraries, or subscriptions to academic databases in which academic journals are archived, then your best options would be
1. (licit) look up the CVs of the authors, which often have links to their papers
2. (illicit) libgen.sys and its clones

I've used both to great success. (Just this week, I had cataract surgery, and got a number of papers about the lens that was implanted from libgen.sys)

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Re: Opinions on initial Wild Card display

Postby MagicbyAlfred » June 2nd, 2020, 12:48 pm

Bill Mullins Wrote: "Kuhn, at least, is plugged into the magic community sufficiently that he should know about Magicpedia, which is where I found the references to Houghton and Hamman (and it took only 30 seconds or so to do so)."

Absolutely. In fact, it would have been even easier than that. One would not even need to know that Magicpedia existed in order to find the references to Houghton and Hammon. I just Googled "Flustration Count," and the very first thing that came up was "Flustration Count - Magicpedia."

You might expect some exposer or giver of a YouTube tutorial/lesson to omit credits and references, but not scholars purporting to write a scientific article that (I would at least presume) they would hope to be peer-reviewed and approved for publication.


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