Shin Lim cancels in Vegas

[CraigMitchell]

A raft of Shin Lim’s upcoming shows at The Mirage have been axed

No official word on the cause but the Twitter verse aren’t mincing their words:

“@celebrityradio Vegas producers make no sense to me. Clueless about room size. They punch too big with shows and then have to cancel, go on Houseseats and inevitably close.

Why not book a humble 300 seater and survive? Shin Lim cancels already @TheMirageLV “

[Richard Kaufman]

Bad news for a newlywed, however perhaps he will land at a better venue for what he does.

[Brad Henderson]

The venue for what he does is Instagram.

[Brad Henderson]

^ THAT’S an insult.

[Jack Shalom]

Wow. Surprised at that evaluation. I've found his live shows, both close-up and platform, to be excellent.

[erdnasephile]

Question (so I can gain some context please): Is Terry Fator able to consistently sell out that venue?

[I.M. Magician]

So he can work a huge room for AGT but not the Vegas venue?

Someone please explain that to me?

Maybe he should specialize in lectures for the magic clubs. Then everything will be nice and cozy for him.

[Richard Kaufman]

People in the audience for AGT are not paying.
What is happening here, it seems, is that there are not enough paying customers to fill the room he was in.

[Anthony Vinson]

I guess such are the pitfalls of an act built primarily for television and social media?

[Richard Kaufman]

Not the point: his degree of fame was insufficient to put butts in enough seats in a venue that large.

[Frank Yuen]

Question (so I can gain some context please): Is Terry Fator able to consistently sell out that venue?

I have no first hand knowledge but I assume so as he is the most financially successful of all the AGT winners. He's performed at the Mirage since 2008.

[CraigMitchell]

Side point - Terry Fator has been struggling with ticket sales in Vegas, too - having to discount significantly. Nearly all shows have been of late.

[Richard Kaufman]

Not Copperfield.

[CraigMitchell]

Even David is not pulling in guaranteed sold out houses ... a quick look at the seating map shows:

7 pm Wed evening still has approx 20% unsold seats
9:30 pm Wed evening is approx 50% empty

7 pm Fri evening still has approx 50% unsold seats
9:30 pm Fri evening is currently 40% empty

It's a small house at 740 seats ... Terry Fator theatre at Mirage is 1250 people

Criss Angel Wed evening show is approx 65% empty and Fri evening show not much better. Criss, if you recall, scaled back to 1 show per night.

It's a competitive entertainment market out there.

[Brad Henderson]

Numbers went down after the shooting and have not returned back to what they were.

[Richard Kaufman]

David's show has MANY late in the day ticket buyers and walk ups. I am there somewhat often and I always look around after everyone is seated. There are not a noticeable number of empty seats in the house.

And Brad is absolutely correct: since the worst mass shooting in US history, tourism has dropped precipitously in Vegas. You can stay at the Bellagio for what a room at the MGM used to cost. And you can stay at the MGM (which is a really nice hotel with terrific rooms) for about $150 a night.

[erdnasephile]

Richard:
Has the drop in tourism also cut the show prices as well? If so, that would seem to make it even harder to four-wall these venues.

[Richard Kaufman]

Just saw the news that MGM has sold the Bellagio for billions, and is renting it back each year.

I don't know about show prices (have never paid for tickets).

[Brad Henderson]

Received an interesting email from someone who didn’t have the courage to post publicly. I will share it and my response.

why write that [censored] about shin lim?
are you depressed? angry people who hate the success of others are usually very bitter and sad. I saw you work once doing a chop cup. nice.

My reply :

Shin Lim’s magic is designed to be experienced on a screen. It’s ideal for Instagram. He deserves great credit for being a master of that venue. But it doesn’t play on a stage for more than about 5 minutes. I’ve seen him live - and without that screen it’s just a guy who’s throwing [censored] behind a table in a very dark room. (I also saw him lecture and it’s clear he doesn’t understand the effects he thinks he is improving. His improvements aren’t. Unless one’s goal is to translate them into Instagram friendly performances. I don’t think that’s necessarily good magic or good for magic..)

I have no problem with his ‘success’. (I use quotes there because, as per the post you reference, his show was closed.).

Am I not allowed to have opinions on magic and it’s various incarnations. Must every person who go out to eat love every type of food imaginable?

[Leo Garet]

Am I not allowed to have opinions on magic and it’s various incarnations. Must every person who go out to eat love every type of food imaginable?

For question [1]. Apparently not.

For question [2]. No.

[Jack Shalom]

@ Brad. No problem with folks having opinions--just surprised at that one. I likely saw him live in the same venue you did, at the 2013 TAOM conference, when he was relatively unknown, and I thought he was terrific.

[Brad Henderson]

From the moment he began his lecture it was clear he had no idea what he was talking about - unless, you consider his thoughts solely from the perspective of performing for an online audience. His understanding of vernon’s Twisting the aces was - I don’t even know if there is a word for
It.

And to me, his ‘close up’ act was at best a case of the emperors clothing and at worse, self delusion.

I was maybe in the second row and it was as I described it - someone throwing a lot of crap under the table in a dark room.

Lots of magicians liked it, of course. But lots of magicians like terrible magic because they like the cleverness of it all.

Shin Lim is a media magician - his magic is meant to be experienced via a screen. This is evident from his early days when he was caught out using media manipulation to create his illusions.

This is why I think we should create a new category of magic. We have close up magic and stage magic - magic which openly takes advantage of the resources of those venues. So we should have media magic and open the door to the manipulation of the media as a means for creating illusions.

It’s honest and frees those interested in tnose venues from criticism of taking advantage of the resources of their venue.

[Bob Farmer]

I love Brad's idea of a new class: media magic, or, to be more precise, fake magic.

[Jack Shalom]

This is evident from his early days when he was caught out using media manipulation to create his illusions.

Pretty sure this is not true. I think you're confusing him with someone else.

[Richard Kaufman]

I did hear that--I believe it was in conjunction with an item he put on the market. The video trailer was edited or manipulated in some way and you could not do what was shown with what you got.

[Bill Marquardt]

This is evident from his early days when he was caught out using media manipulation to create his illusions.

Pretty sure this is not true. I think you're confusing him with someone else.

Perhaps my memory is wrong, but was it not Shin Lim who created a video of one of his card illusions wherein he used a duplicate of a signed card? The signatures were not exactly alike and he was busted. He (someone else?) explained later that he did so so that no one could reverse engineer the trick and appeased his critics by revealing the secrets of performing the trick to any magician who requested.

This happened a few years ago. If not by Mr. Lim, I apologize.


Edited: I was typing this response while Richard was posting his. Yes, it was for a marketed trick.

[Bill Marquardt]

Not sure that this is really important to the topic of this thread, but it was indeed Shin Lim who produced a fake trailer video for one of his marketed items. https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/vie ... &forum=109

[Roger M.]

Although it's not a branch of magic that I'm at all interested in, the establishment of "Social Media Magic" is now pretty well solidified in our vernacular as a descriptor of an actual "new" branch of magic.
The boys at Wizard Product Review even reviewed a DVD with that very name a few weeks ago (Social Media Magic) and commented on the very high quality of some of the effects on the DVD, despite the fact that many of those effects could never be replicated or performed in front of a live audience.

As for canceled shows in Vegas, they actually happen everywhere, and usually for one of two somewhat common reasons (although I'm sure there are more reasons one could find if one looked) ... those two common reasons being either the performer wasn't popular enough to fill the number of seats in the venue they performed in ... or the show received terrible reviews and that "bad buzz" spread to potential bums in seats.
I suspect in Shin Lim's case, it's #1 ... he simply isn't well enough known outside the magic community, nor is he popular enough even to those who might recognize his name from TV to fill the number of seats he was trying to fill every night.
I'm not sure his cancellation has anything to do with his performance being heavy on Social Media Magic ... although I can see how magicians would definitely find a live show comprised largely of Social Media Magic tricks somewhat problematic.

[Brad Henderson]

Media magic is a better descriptor as it allows for inclusion all magic designed to be experienced through a screen.

A lot of criss angel’s televised material - for example - is media magic even though it was broadcast.

[Brad Henderson]

I love Brad's idea of a new class: media magic, or, to be more precise, fake magic.

In many ways it is fake magic as it creates the illusion that one has created an illusion.

Though everything experienced through a screen is fundamentally an illusion and not reality. So I think media magic - free from the pejorative - is an accurate and fair descriptor.

[Travis]

I can't find anything about this on Twitter.

[Roger M.]

Media Magic is certainly an apt descriptor for the broad spectrum, but Social Media Magic remains an actual "thing", one which allows any magician, anywhere ... to present their "magic" through any one of a dozen social media platforms, and to build a strong following as a result.
Not only does Social Media Magic offer an opportunity to present ones magic, but it also invites the viewer to participate in direct communication with the magician, something a TV screen doesn't offer.
In other words, Social Media Magic is constantly interactive, and builds perceived (and often quite strong) relationships between the magician and the viewer as a result of the ongoing exchange made possible by any typical social media platform.

[Brad Henderson]

All social media magic is media magic, not all media magic is social media magic.

The issues related to the techniques for the production of the illusion stems from the media nature of the transmission, not the social nature.

[Brad Henderson]

Shin lin’s Material which is meant to be viewed on a screen - even live - would be media magic. There is no social component to that experience.

Criss Angel’s Material in his televised show would be media magic as there is no social component to it.

The magically relevant issue is the media venue. How that ends up being used isn’t Germaine to terms of art related to magic per se.

Close up magic is closeup magic where it’s in a restaurant or at a table in someone’s home.

[Kent Gunn]

Brad,

Germaine was a magician. Using his name is not germain as you used it. Damned homophobes.

[Chris Aguilar]

Shin Lim seems like a nice, talented young man and (beyond whatever is happening now) I hope his future shows work out well for him.

[Roger M.]

My point is simply that Social Media Magic is "a thing".

Shin Lim has 375,000 Facebook followers who follow him for his magic "doings" ... which tends to imply that Mr. Lim is involved in "Social Media Magic" ... in addition to whatever else folks might want to describe him as being involved with.

Was looking for pleasant conversation in this thread though, not debate ... won't be back.

[Dustin Stinett]

Brad,

Germaine was a magician. Using his name is not germain as you used it. Damned homophobes.

Except he spelled his name Germain. Germaine was an early misspelling on some of his posters.
Just sayin' (what was this thread about?).

[Richard Kaufman]

Is this the thread about Shim Lin?

[skmayhew]

He seems to be pretty busy for the next few months:

https://www.ticketmaster.com/shin-lim-tickets/artist/2560538