Key Mysteries

Discuss products and their reviews in Genii.
P.T.Widdle
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Key Mysteries

Postby P.T.Widdle » January 26th, 2016, 1:08 pm

I read John Lovick's review of Steve Drury's book, "Key Mysteries" on the subway this morning (Yes, I read Genii on the subway. I find there are still book-reading people on the subway, but printed magazines seemed to have almost entirely disappeared).

In the review, Lovick describes a Drury contribution whereby he uses the Haunted Key during a therapy session.
"The therapy session involves...secretly obtaining the client's "issue" via a glimpse or impression device."

Lovick characterizes this contribution as, "extremely distasteful", "creepy, inappropriate, and almost certainly unethical."

I happen to agree.

And I would also be interested to see if anyone replied to Lovick's request for any certified therapists who disagree to write him and "set me straight."

Tom Frame
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Re: Key Mysteries

Postby Tom Frame » January 26th, 2016, 3:24 pm

I'm a licensed psychotherapist. I whole-heartedly agree with Lovick's assessment.
"There is more to consciousness than meets the mind's eye." - Frame

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: Key Mysteries

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 26th, 2016, 3:33 pm

What's his proposed crossover between client based therapy and the therapist using magic tricks? Supernatural affirmation/indoctrination... no comment.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

observer
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Re: Key Mysteries

Postby observer » January 26th, 2016, 3:58 pm

Imagine a friend of yours raving about how wonderfully insightful their new therapist is, and you happen to find out later that those "insights" are actually the result of glimpses and impression devices ...

Very, very bad.

Brad Henderson
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Re: Key Mysteries

Postby Brad Henderson » January 26th, 2016, 4:48 pm

would the results from the session be different if the client knew/found out that a trick was used to obtain the information?

was the client aware that they were seeing a 'demonstration' or 'performance' - was the 'magic' presented as science or symbol, reason or rite?

I agree that this situation sounds (and likely is) creepy, (I don't know the 'routine') but I worked with a therapist who used various arts (we discussed using magic) in conjunction with crisis therapy. So I'm not wIlling to condemn someone just because they use magic in a questionable context or employ deception in their techniques. I do trust lovick's opinion, but I'm not going to rush to judge without facts.

I'm not a member of scicop after all.

observer
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Re: Key Mysteries

Postby observer » January 26th, 2016, 5:14 pm

The quote in PTW's second paragraph appears to leave little doubt as to the savoriness of the therapy methodology.

However, I've been burned here before by someone alleging malfeasance (a copyright infringement which turned out not to be that at all), so I will reserve judgement until someone who has read Drury's book, not just a review of it, cares to tell us what the actual procedure involves.

performer
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Re: Key Mysteries

Postby performer » January 26th, 2016, 7:10 pm

I would also like to see the context before passing judgement. I would particularly be interested to see what kind of "therapist" the gentleman is. If he is a psychiatrist I do have to say that they are all quite mad themselves. I have never met a sane psychiatrist and in fact I consider them just as mad as their patients.

P.T.Widdle
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Re: Key Mysteries

Postby P.T.Widdle » January 26th, 2016, 7:59 pm

observer wrote:I will reserve judgement until someone who has read Drury's book, not just a review of it, cares to tell us what the actual procedure involves.


Judging by Lovick's review, and the price of the book, you may be waiting a long time.

Steve Drury
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Re: Key Mysteries

Postby Steve Drury » May 9th, 2019, 6:20 am

I have only just discovered this thread.

Firstly - I never received any acknowledgement or thanks from Genii for sending them a copy of this book, nor given any subsequent copy of the review, or even notice that this thread was live.

Secondly - I was fully qualified at the time. The key was used creatively as part of clinical hypnotherapy induction.
Sessions were held 'content free'. The client's 'issue' was written down and kept by the client (for later emplasis that that this had been written by them following any trans-derivation response which may have denied the issue ever existed at the conclusion of the session). I feel no need to justify any 'magic techniques' I may have used in any therapeutic setting or client interventions. I find the passing of judgement against me without context or any content quite surprising from this respected forum.

Finally - I stand by the price of the the book. It remains priced to deter the merely curious and contains, I consider, as do many others, some quality content.

Brad Henderson
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Re: Key Mysteries

Postby Brad Henderson » May 9th, 2019, 8:20 am

I don’t know any magic magazine that sends thanks or acknowledgments for review submissions.

As context is important, what were your qualifications at that time? What exactly was the audience member’s understanding of the nature of the interaction ?

Bill Mullins
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Re: Key Mysteries

Postby Bill Mullins » May 9th, 2019, 10:10 am

Any medical procedure, including therapy, should only be done with the patient’s fully-informed consent. Doesn’t sound like that is what is going on.

Steve Drury
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Re: Key Mysteries

Postby Steve Drury » May 21st, 2019, 4:13 am

Brad Henderson wrote:I don’t know any magic magazine that sends thanks or acknowledgments for review submissions.

As context is important, what were your qualifications at that time? What exactly was the audience member’s understanding of the nature of the interaction ?


Magic magazines need to get some courtesy then. It costs nothing to say thank you.

Steve Drury
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Re: Key Mysteries

Postby Steve Drury » May 21st, 2019, 4:31 am

Bill Mullins wrote:Any medical procedure, including therapy, should only be done with the patient’s fully-informed consent. Doesn’t sound like that is what is going on.


When you state that you are working 'content free' and they are simply being asked - and oly if they wish - to wirite down a simple word they associate with the issue and to keep the piece of paper - What is the issue? They are open told that this is to refer to at the conclusion of the session. The effect of the trans-derivational search can be quite powerful. All sessions were recorded, peer reviewed and kept by the practice owner.

I was already a well -established mystery performer locally, which was a reason some clients selected my practice too.

Magic and therapy continue to work hand in hand across many cultures.

I am surprised at the inference that I may have acted inappropriately (in other posts) - and at the naivety of how many professions use magic more than ever (n whatever genre) in modern creative advances, whether therapy or otherwise.

Brad Henderson
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Re: Key Mysteries

Postby Brad Henderson » May 21st, 2019, 8:46 am

Steve Drury wrote:
Brad Henderson wrote:I don’t know any magic magazine that sends thanks or acknowledgments for review submissions.

As context is important, what were your qualifications at that time? What exactly was the audience member’s understanding of the nature of the interaction ?


Magic magazines need to get some courtesy then. It costs nothing to say thank you.


What are they thanking you for - giving your book free publicity?

A reviewer spent several hours reading, thinking and writing about your book so you can make more money.

Shouldn’t it be you who are grateful?

Brad Henderson
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Re: Key Mysteries

Postby Brad Henderson » May 21st, 2019, 8:51 am

Steve Drury wrote:

Magic and therapy continue to work hand in hand across many cultures.


I would like to hear more about this. Are thee any articles you can point to?

I am surprised at the inference that I may have acted inappropriately (in other posts) - and at the naivety of how many professions use magic more than ever (n whatever genre) in modern creative advances, whether therapy or otherwise.


Can you give us some examples of the use of magic more than ever in other professions.

Bill Mullins
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Re: Key Mysteries

Postby Bill Mullins » May 21st, 2019, 10:39 am

Steve Drury wrote:
Bill Mullins wrote:Any medical procedure, including therapy, should only be done with the patient’s fully-informed consent. Doesn’t sound like that is what is going on.


When you state that you are working 'content free' and they are simply being asked - and oly if they wish - to wirite down a simple word they associate with the issue and to keep the piece of paper - What is the issue?

Caveat: I've never gone through psychotherapy, and don't have any specialized knowledge of it beyond what any reasonably-well read interested person would.

However, it seems to me that the key (ignore the pun) to any successful therapist-patient relationship should be trust.
Issue 1: Should that trust be built on the patient having faith that the procedures used by the therapist are well-founded in the scientific method, and have been accepted by medical community, and have been shown to be successful in the treatment of the problems that patients come to therapists with? Or should it be built on what appears to be supernatural methods, which by their nature call into question any other legitimate science-based (and successful) therapy techniques? In other words, is it better for the patient to see the therapist as a scientist (Oliver Sachs), or a witch doctor (Theodoric of York, Medieval Barber).
Issue 2: Suppose that a patient undergoes therapy based on the Haunted Key, and makes progress. He then learns that the Haunted Key is a magic trick, and it simply rolled over in the palm. Will the embarrassment felt for having been duped aid the patient's progress, or retard it?
I was already a well -established mystery performer locally, which was a reason some clients selected my practice too.

This sounds like the worst possible reason for a patient to seek a therapist.

If you would claim that "I've discovered a way to get Blue Cross/Blue Shield to pay for a gig," I would have more respect for what you are doing.

Pete McCabe
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Re: Key Mysteries

Postby Pete McCabe » May 21st, 2019, 1:48 pm

Steve, I would be interested to know how you reveal the information you have acquired. How does the patient believe you acquired the information? Do you acknowledge that you acquired it secretly by a magical method, or do you present it as something you acquired by a supernatural method, or what?


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