The Jerx Year Three

[magicfish]

You might even like the Oct 1st 2018 entry.

Let me know if I'm breaking any rules here guys. Seriously. This is about the Jerx blog and these are from the Jerx blog.

[Bill Mullins]

NASA was set up by a literal Nazi war criminal.

I never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

But seriously - Wernher von Braun was evil. And he was the most important person in the early days of NASA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

You are pretty much wrong on all counts. Von Braun wasn't a war criminal, he wasn't the most important person in the early days of NASA, and he wasn't particularly evil. (He turned a blind eye to the actions of his government while he tried to build rockets -- that's about the worst you can say of him.)

[magicfish]

Some more wisdom from Andy.
http://www.thejerx.com/blog/2018/9/29/t ... l-in-magic

[magicfish]

Are you gents all familiar with his presentation for the ambitious card? I encourage you to read it.
I will post a link but only with the moderators' permission. Then again, since this entire 4 page thread is about The Jerx, I'm sure I can share The Jerx issues right?
See Feb.28 2018.
Tell us how ingenious this is Joe.

http://www.thejerx.com/blog/2018/2/27/t ... tious-card

[Brad Jeffers]

I just watched Back Issues -The Hustler Magazine Story, a documentary about the history of Larry Flynt and the iconoclastic magazine he created.

After watching the film, I have come to view the Andy/Jerx blog situation, as a microcosm of the Larry Flynt/Hustler magazine situation, in which Joe Mckay takes on the roll of Ron Jeremy and magicfish plays the part of Jerry Falwell.

No offense intended.

[magicfish]

None taken my friend. I will forever be proud to speak out against using magic tricks to convey mysogenist, racist, homophobic, anti semitic, or any and all hateful ideals.
It is a disgrace to the craft I've devoted my life to.

[Brad Jeffers]

No offense intended.

I meant to Ron Jeremy and Jerry Falwell.

[magicfish]

No offense intended.

I meant to Ron Jeremy and Jerry Falwell

Haha . Nice Brad!

[Daniel Z]

NASA was set up by a literal Nazi war criminal.

I never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

But seriously - Wernher von Braun was evil. And he was the most important person in the early days of NASA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

You are pretty much wrong on all counts. Von Braun wasn't a war criminal, he wasn't the most important person in the early days of NASA, and he wasn't particularly evil. (He turned a blind eye to the actions of his government while he tried to build rockets -- that's about the worst you can say of him.)

Hi Bill. Those issues of complicity can be very difficult to sort out I think you may be understating the case against von Braun. At the very least (by his own testimony) used slave labour in the construction of his rockets. Slave labour is an slippery term because it in some ways seems less horrifying than simply saying he used slaves. Its' also too easy to imagine (especially at the moment) unpaid factory workers labouring away for the government. But these factory workers were concentration camp inmates (my father was one, forced to build on Nazi airplanes). They were starved, tortured and murdered in great numbers. It is said that more people died building V2s than were killed by them. I don't know the source of that statement but given your astounding skills I bet you can tell us.

[Joe Mckay]

I am not super knowledgeable about NASA or the Nazis.

But my understanding is that von Braun should have been hanged as a war criminal. However he was too valuable to the Americans who recruited him instead as part of Operation Paperclip.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

[Richard Kaufman]

I really don't think we need to have a long conversation about Von Braun in this thread!

[Richard Kaufman]

Some more wisdom from Andy.
http://www.thejerx.com/blog/2018/9/29/t ... l-in-magic

I'm very happy he wrote 90% of that article, though I wish he didn't appropriate my illustrations and include me in his disgraceful parody (that, by the way, is what protects him from being sued).

He so often writes incredibly dumb things just for the sake of being provocative that it's tiresome.

[magicfish]

I agree but I would go further and say that it is completely unacceptable. I mean come on, smacking women in the head?
Are there actually people in 2019 willing to overlook this because they like a magic trick idea? And rather than take him to task they send him money?

[Richard Kaufman]

People are free to read or not read. There's certainly a lot worse on the internet.

[magicfish]

Free to read absolutely.

[Jonathan Townsend]

So The Jerx writing is spiced with r-rated imagery. Consistently. It's his brand. Okay it's more Goofus than Gallant but that's his brand of Highlights. Now let's look at the framing and content. Using that ambitious card example with some text bolded.

... And, as I've said before, in my experience, the strongest tricks are the ones where the narrative of the story is in the present-tense. The audience isn't hearing a story, they're witnessing one unfold. ...And, while I've written it up as a sort of R-rated routine, you could tone it down and come up with something more family friendly and it would work as a nice little showpiece. ...[script with r-rated adult references] ... If nothing else, I hope it serves as an example of a routine taking place in the present tense. It's not a story or a joke illustrated with cards, and it's not a re-enactment of something that happened once at a bar or around a poker table. It's something unfolding in real time that has some meaning. This is not a subtle difference that audiences aren't aware of. It's a much more engaging experience for the spectator, and it has nothing to do with them believing what's happening is real. They know it's fiction either way. But that's what makes this style of magic so strong. People are used to hearing, reading or watching fiction, they're not used to being in a fictional experience as it happens.

The post has stated goals and choice of specific example. Aristocrats territory or not- it's consistent. If it's not useful to you ... it's not required reading.

[Ryan Matney]

I agree but I would go further and say that it is completely unacceptable. I mean come on, smacking women in the head?
Are there actually people in 2019 willing to overlook this because they like a magic trick idea? And rather than take him to task they send him money?

Bitch doesn't always mean female. "Smack a bitch" is common slang.

[magicfish]

'Smack a bitch" is common slang'

How unfortunate.

[magicfish]

So The Jerx writing is spiced with r-rated imagery. Consistently. It's his brand. Okay it's more Goofus than Gallant but that's his brand of Highlights. Now let's look at the framing and content. Using that ambitious card example with some text bolded.

... And, as I've said before, in my experience, the strongest tricks are the ones where the narrative of the story is in the present-tense. The audience isn't hearing a story, they're witnessing one unfold. ...And, while I've written it up as a sort of R-rated routine, you could tone it down and come up with something more family friendly and it would work as a nice little showpiece. ...[script with r-rated adult references] ... If nothing else, I hope it serves as an example of a routine taking place in the present tense. It's not a story or a joke illustrated with cards, and it's not a re-enactment of something that happened once at a bar or around a poker table. It's something unfolding in real time that has some meaning. This is not a subtle difference that audiences aren't aware of. It's a much more engaging experience for the spectator, and it has nothing to do with them believing what's happening is real. They know it's fiction either way. But that's what makes this style of magic so strong. People are used to hearing, reading or watching fiction, they're not used to being in a fictional experience as it happens.

The post has stated goals and choice of specific example. Aristocrats territory or not- it's consistent. If it's not useful to you ... it's not required reading.

Thanks Jon, I read it. I've read them all.
Instructing that one can make it less pornographic,less violent, less misogynistic, by leaving out the pornography , the violence and the mysogeny doesn't quite cut it.

[magicfish]

People are free to read or not read. There's certainly a lot worse on the internet.

I agree Richard. In fact I think the more people read it , the more I feel it will be exposed as the smut that it is.
Right now his niche following of overlookers who think they are on to something exclusive and special are enabling him and promoting him.
As you say there is much worse on the internet, but as this is a discussion of magic by magicians, I would argue there is nothing worse on the internet in regards to using magic to spew hate.

[Roger M.]

It's funny that "The Aristocrats" was brought up above.

Do we excoriate Penn for producing the movie, or Eric Mead and Jay Marshall for their participation in the film?
As intended by the very purpose of the joke itself, the assorted versions told in the film FAR out do anything "Andy" puts into his blog, some bordering on (if not actually being) outright pornography.

Of course we don't, because that would be stupid.

[Roger M.]

........... I read it. I've read them all.

You're read all of "Andy's" posts?
To what end?
Re-reading your posts in this thread, it seems you had been a regular visitor to "The Magic Circle Jerk" as well, and read all of those posts.

Normally when I find myself reading something I find completely disgusting, I stop reading and simply move on (it is the internet after all).

There's something odd about your current campaign against "dirty magic" ... and that oddity is compounded by your apparent fascination with both of "Andy's" websites, one past, and one present?

It's like the guy who despises pornography (and takes every opportunity to let folks know of his disgust) but in order to complete his "research", he spends 40 hours a week cruising pornography websites.

Thou knows a bit too much about "Andy's" writings ... while subsequently protesting just a bit too much about "Andy's" writings!

[Joe Mckay]

My big problem with the "Aristrocrats" documentary was that there was no racism.

Not a single shred of it. And I was really annoyed at that.

The whole point of this so-called legendary joke is to be as offensive as humanly possible.

Rape, incest, pedophilia, bestiality, the holocaust - literally anything goes. Since the only rule is to be as offensive as possible. Remember this is a private joke shared by comedians as they try and shock each other.

Yet there is this giant red button called racism which everyone was too scared to even consider pressing since the entire world would collapse in on over their head.

And why is that?

Because to be racist is just too offensive and too beyond the pail to even be considered.

And that is why I was annoyed since that is the entire point of this dumb joke in the first place!

I was really bummed that Penn never addressed this giant elephant in the room since it was the only thing that would have added an interesting spin to the documentary since the "Aristocrats" joke itself is boring, predictable and terrible.

Interestingly the only comedian who mentioned that the joke itself was terrible was Eddie Izzard. Who also happened to be the best comedian in the documentary. That speaks volumes.

The only version worth watching was the brilliant card trick by Eric Mead.

[magicfish]

........... I read it. I've read them all.

You're read all of "Andy's" posts?
To what end?
Re-reading your posts in this thread, it seems you had been a regular visitor to "The Magic Circle Jerk" as well, and read all of those posts.

Normally when I find myself reading something I find completely disgusting, I stop reading and simply move on (it is the internet after all).

There's something odd about your current campaign against "dirty magic" ... and that oddity is compounded by your apparent fascination with both of "Andy's" websites, one past, and one present?

It's like the guy who despises pornography (and takes every opportunity to let folks know of his disgust) but in order to complete his "research", he spends 40 hours a week cruising pornography websites.

Thou knows a bit too much about "Andy's" writings ... while subsequently protesting just a bit too much about "Andy's" writings!

Cute, but highly inaccurate and a tad insulting.
I refuse to criticize a body of work without having read it first. So I read it, formed an opinion, then expressed it.
Rare these days I know.

[AJM]

I don’t have the time to read all the stuff I want to read.
It follows that I don’t have any time to read the stuff I don’t want to read.

Magicfish - you must have all the time in the world.

Andrew

[Joe Mckay]

magicfish? If you email Andy he will happily post any criticisms you have on his site. Although he will probably comment on what you wrote and point out anything silly you say. He has done this before with other critics who have contacted him in order to vent.

He is pretty relaxed about having people criticize him in public. And is usually willing to offer people his platform in order to do so. People getting angry at a magic blog is just one of those inherently funny things. And it always makes for entertaining reading.

[magicfish]

I don’t have the time to read all the stuff I want to read.
It follows that I don’t have any time to read the stuff I don’t want to read.

Magicfish - you must have all the time in the world.

Andrew

Not all the time in the world, but a lot, yes. I don't have television. I just read.
When I'm not working, or cooking for my kids, or practicing magic, I'm reading.
And I don't only read things I like. I read things I don't like all the time strictly for the knowledge or to understand an author's position.
Heck I read the Bible, the Qur'an, Tao te ching,
True Crime, History, Entomology,
Grammar, Logic, Rhetoric, Arithmetic, Geometry, Music, Astronomy.
That reminds me, somehow I have to sneak in another bookshelf while the wife's not looking.

[Joe Mckay]

I read a lot as well. It helps not having a TV. But I think the internet is effectively the new TV these days. And I spend a lot of time on there. Or should I say - on here...

[magicfish]

magicfish? If you email Andy he will happily post any criticisms you have on his site. Although he will probably comment on what you wrote and point out anything silly you say. He has done this before with other critics who have contacted him in order to vent.

He is pretty relaxed about having people criticize him in public. And is usually willing to offer people his platform in order to do so. People getting angry at a magic blog is just one of those inherently funny things. And it always makes for entertaining reading.

Mysogeny is not just dumb stuff. Violence against women is not just dumb stuff.
I don't get mad at magic blogs.
I get mad at hatred of women.
Turn off your crush and recognize the harm.

[Joe Mckay]

Andy doesn't hate women.

You have to separate out humour from reality.

People saying stuff to be funny is not the same as them setting out their ethical code or worldview.

[magicfish]

Andy doesn't hate women.

You have to separate out humour from reality.

People saying stuff to be funny is not the same as them setting out their ethical code or worldview.

It doesn't matter.
It's a shame you recognize racism as unacceptable but mysogeny is ok with you.
Maybe andy gets away with this in 2019 because there still arent many women magicians.
It isnt funny. Racist jokes arent funny. The N word isn't funny. Calling women C#m D#mpsters isnt funny. Joking about smacking them in the head if they don't perform sexual acts to your satisfaction
Isnt funny. You think it is. It's sad, but I'm not here to argue with you and I will never change your archaic, sexist attitudes. Nor do I care about you frankly.
But I do care about magic. And you will never change my mind that mysogeny is not funny.
So. Let's part ways here Joe.
Thanks.
And thankyou for letting me Express my opinion on this Richard. I hope I was respectful and rule abiding.
Now back to good, respectful magic I go.

[Roger M.]

Literally nobody else on earth cares what any one person thinks of The Jerx ... not a single soul.
Let it go, simply don't read The Jerx, and move on with life.
If other folks praising The Jerx bothers you, don't read their praise ... and once again move on with life.

People feeling compelled to police content on the internet by hammering away in a forum certainly isn't an unknown online phenomenon ... but such folks most often do so completely uninvited - in the sense that literally nobody posted anywhere on the internet saying "I wonder what magicfish thinks about all of this?"

So, to be clear ... you've made your point (repeatedly).

[magicfish]

See above. Thanks Roger. Agreed, however I didn't think I needed an invite to post here. I am a member in good standing.
I will leave this thread now.

[skmayhew]

I wonder what magicfish thinks about all of this.

[Joe Mckay]

Cheers, magicfish.

Your passion for magic comes through in everything you post. And I respect that. Hopefully we can have more productive conversations elsewhere on the forum.

Agreeing to disagree is a sensible way to draw a line under all this.

Have a great weekend!

[magicfish]

Cheers, magicfish.

Your passion for magic comes through in everything you post. And I respect that. Hopefully we can have more productive conversations elsewhere on the forum.

Agreeing to disagree is a sensible way to draw a line under all this.

Have a great weekend!

I look forward to it Joe.
Have a good weekend.

[Brad Jeffers]

You've got me thinking though.

Racist jokes arent funny. The N word isn't funny. Calling women C#m D#mpsters isnt funny. Joking about smacking them in the head if they don't perform sexual acts to your satisfaction isn't funny.

So the way I see it ...

The bulk of the content of "The Jerx" are the groceries.

The things that magicfish objects to are the plastic bag in which Andy puts the groceries.

Joe Mckay likes the plastic bag. He sees it as a good thing. After all, he doesn't want to be seen carrying his groceries home in his arms like a "demented baboon".

magicfish on the other hand, sees the bigger picture.

[Ryan Matney]

I don't know how anyone could take that site serious enough to get offended by it. He writes to provoke.

[Richard Kaufman]

I'm starting to get extremely annoyed.
magicfish said he is done on this thread.
Mr. McKay, you are also done on this thread.

We don't discuss hot-button topics on this forum that do not have anything to do with magic. CLEAR?

[Leo Garet]

Cheers, magicfish.

Agreeing to disagree is a sensible way to draw a line under all this.

Have a great weekend!

Indeed, although....

Agreeing to disagree might eliminate the need for lines. Everywhere.