Recommend me a dove act!

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.
User avatar
Susan Arendt
Posts: 24
Joined: October 31st, 2017, 2:57 pm
Favorite Magician: Doug Henning
Contact:

Recommend me a dove act!

Postby Susan Arendt » January 11th, 2018, 10:48 am

I was talking with a magician friend of mine yesterday about dove acts, and he suggested that my lack of appreciation for them is probably tied to my never having seen a really good one. Recognizing that he might be right, I turn to the hive mind of Genii for recommendations on the very best dove acts so that I can calibrate my expectations appropriately. The few I've seen have all been nearly identical and also...well, corny is the only word that fits. So I'm really hoping to see one that totally changes my mind.
Magic is for everyone.

User avatar
Steve Bryant
Posts: 1854
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Ballantine
Location: Bloomington IN
Contact:

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby Steve Bryant » January 11th, 2018, 11:03 am

Greg Frewin.

Tom Frame
Posts: 1018
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Del Ray
Location: San Francisco

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby Tom Frame » January 11th, 2018, 11:46 am

Channing Pollock
"There is more to consciousness than meets the mind's eye." - Frame

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 24391
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 11th, 2018, 12:02 pm

James Dimmare
Mon Dre
George Saterial
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Bill Mullins
Posts: 4853
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby Bill Mullins » January 11th, 2018, 1:26 pm

Tomsoni

I.M. Magician
Posts: 967
Joined: August 19th, 2013, 10:49 pm
Favorite Magician: All of the very best!
Location: Magicville

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby I.M. Magician » January 11th, 2018, 1:28 pm

Lee Grey

Richard Hatch
Posts: 1883
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Providence, Utah
Contact:

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby Richard Hatch » January 11th, 2018, 5:51 pm

Lance Burton!

Ristiharju
Posts: 10
Joined: September 30th, 2012, 12:45 am

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby Ristiharju » January 11th, 2018, 6:15 pm

Marko Karvo! Probably the closest thing to Channing Pollock today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oezdfqlup4E

Tom Moore
Posts: 444
Joined: February 7th, 2012, 6:45 pm
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby Tom Moore » January 11th, 2018, 6:34 pm

You need to understand the context and evolution of "the dove act" to appreciate a lot of what makes acts good or bad. Obviously that's a luxury most lay audiences don't have and magicians are phenomenally bad at conveying the history and context of the art which is why dove acts are generally cliched and uninspiring. In a nutshell (and knowing how controversial some of these comments will be) what you need to know is...

Channing Pollock is basically the father of "the dove act" - at the time he was revolutionary and unique but now because he has been copied so much he looks like the ultimate cliche (much as when watching Elvis or the Beatles now you can't appreciate why they were so mold-breaking at the time) though his technical skills and slickness is legendary. He was very good.

Lance Burton / Joseph Gabriel / James Dimmare / Shimada (and many others) did dove acts that are really best described as "Channing Pollock tribute acts" - they are technically proficient performances of the material but there's really no innovation or evolution of the material. It's like watching very very good Frank Sinatra tribute acts.

Tomsoni / MacRonay (and plenty of other performers in Europe) do spoof dove acts that have a reasonable level of technical skill but play the pastiche; you can watch those acts completely cold and be entertained but the subtleties of most of their jokes are lost if you aren't reasonably aware of the tropes and icons of dove magic performance

Greg Frewin / Marko Karvo / Charlie Mag / Darcy Oake / Dan Sperry / Jason Byrne / Jonathan David Bass are the key names in contemporary dove magic and each have their own twists they have put on the genre (Greg was very modern, Marko is incredibly slick & European, Charlie is very modern-artistic, Darcy is closest thing we have to a rockstar, Sperry plays with contrast and expectations, Byrne does classics in a modern classical way, J-D-B is a bad-boy dove magician) however every single one of these performers is wearing basically the same style of jacket, waves a lot of silk hankies around and throws things in the air whilst fumbling with the other hand. They are all great people but fundamentally what they are doing is (technically) no different to what Channing did 60 years ago so you will always have that nagging feeling that what you're watching is the magic equivalent of someone who's invented a really new high-tech steam train so if you're ambivalent about dove magic now don't expect to see anything revolutionary.

Most genre's of magic have been radically altered by "Asian magicians" but whilst i've seen a fair few dove acts from that part of the world there's really not been any innovation on the scale that they have influenced close-up or card manipulation.
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

thomasmoorecreative

observer
Posts: 342
Joined: August 31st, 2014, 5:32 am
Favorite Magician: Harry Kellar - Charlie Miller - Paul Rosini - Jay Marshall
Location: Chicago

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby observer » January 11th, 2018, 10:16 pm


User avatar
Brad Jeffers
Posts: 894
Joined: April 11th, 2008, 5:52 pm
Location: Savannah, GA

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby Brad Jeffers » January 12th, 2018, 12:29 am

Susan Arendt wrote:The few I've seen have all been nearly identical and also...well, corny is the only word that fits.

What is it about dove acts that you consider to be "corny"?

User avatar
Susan Arendt
Posts: 24
Joined: October 31st, 2017, 2:57 pm
Favorite Magician: Doug Henning
Contact:

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby Susan Arendt » January 12th, 2018, 10:40 am

Brad Jeffers wrote:
Susan Arendt wrote:The few I've seen have all been nearly identical and also...well, corny is the only word that fits.

What is it about dove acts that you consider to be "corny"?


The few that I'd seen until you folks made your excellent recommendations were unimaginative and derivative. A guy in an oversized jacket made birds appear one after the other, and that's basically it. While I don't doubt for a moment that requires a great deal of proficiency, it can feel like old hat.
Magic is for everyone.

User avatar
Susan Arendt
Posts: 24
Joined: October 31st, 2017, 2:57 pm
Favorite Magician: Doug Henning
Contact:

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby Susan Arendt » January 12th, 2018, 10:41 am

Tom Moore wrote:You need to understand the context and evolution of "the dove act" to appreciate a lot of what makes acts good or bad. Obviously that's a luxury most lay audiences don't have and magicians are phenomenally bad at conveying the history and context of the art which is why dove acts are generally cliched and uninspiring. In a nutshell (and knowing how controversial some of these comments will be) what you need to know is...

Channing Pollock is basically the father of "the dove act" - at the time he was revolutionary and unique but now because he has been copied so much he looks like the ultimate cliche (much as when watching Elvis or the Beatles now you can't appreciate why they were so mold-breaking at the time) though his technical skills and slickness is legendary. He was very good.

Lance Burton / Joseph Gabriel / James Dimmare / Shimada (and many others) did dove acts that are really best described as "Channing Pollock tribute acts" - they are technically proficient performances of the material but there's really no innovation or evolution of the material. It's like watching very very good Frank Sinatra tribute acts.

Tomsoni / MacRonay (and plenty of other performers in Europe) do spoof dove acts that have a reasonable level of technical skill but play the pastiche; you can watch those acts completely cold and be entertained but the subtleties of most of their jokes are lost if you aren't reasonably aware of the tropes and icons of dove magic performance

Greg Frewin / Marko Karvo / Charlie Mag / Darcy Oake / Dan Sperry / Jason Byrne / Jonathan David Bass are the key names in contemporary dove magic and each have their own twists they have put on the genre (Greg was very modern, Marko is incredibly slick & European, Charlie is very modern-artistic, Darcy is closest thing we have to a rockstar, Sperry plays with contrast and expectations, Byrne does classics in a modern classical way, J-D-B is a bad-boy dove magician) however every single one of these performers is wearing basically the same style of jacket, waves a lot of silk hankies around and throws things in the air whilst fumbling with the other hand. They are all great people but fundamentally what they are doing is (technically) no different to what Channing did 60 years ago so you will always have that nagging feeling that what you're watching is the magic equivalent of someone who's invented a really new high-tech steam train so if you're ambivalent about dove magic now don't expect to see anything revolutionary.

Most genre's of magic have been radically altered by "Asian magicians" but whilst i've seen a fair few dove acts from that part of the world there's really not been any innovation on the scale that they have influenced close-up or card manipulation.


Thank you so much for this well thought out and expansive answer. I very much appreciate your insight and enjoyed reading this a great deal.
Magic is for everyone.

observer
Posts: 342
Joined: August 31st, 2014, 5:32 am
Favorite Magician: Harry Kellar - Charlie Miller - Paul Rosini - Jay Marshall
Location: Chicago

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby observer » January 12th, 2018, 12:51 pm



That link worked perfectly well when I tested it after posting but is now blocked by what sure looks like some sort of scam site. So, check out the photo gallery at her web site, celesteevans.com , if interested.

Photo was of some interest actually as it showed a magician not using the "oversized jacket" gag.

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 24391
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 12th, 2018, 1:47 pm

She worked in a strapless, sleeveless dress! The only thing I can imagine is that her bust was larger when the show started, and smaller when it ended.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Bill Mullins
Posts: 4853
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby Bill Mullins » January 13th, 2018, 12:00 am

Richard Kaufman wrote: The only thing I can imagine is that her bust was larger when the show started, and smaller when it ended.


Which is the opposite of how Dolly Parton's career progressed.

User avatar
Christopher1979
Posts: 288
Joined: January 23rd, 2017, 10:46 am
Favorite Magician: Ricky Jay, Dai Vernon, Darwin Ortiz, Ed Marlo
Location: Phoenix AZ

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby Christopher1979 » January 13th, 2018, 4:17 pm

To me you cannot get any better than James Dimmare he works in the style as Channing Pollock who is one of the very best. I think Channing helped a lot of up and coming magicians start up and he heavily influenced Dimmares act. I love Lance Burton too but i just remember seeing Dimmare doing his act on the Paul Daniels Magic Show and he blew me away!.

Bill Duncan
Posts: 1482
Joined: March 13th, 2008, 11:33 pm

Re: Recommend me a dove act!

Postby Bill Duncan » January 17th, 2018, 10:13 pm

Nothing nefarious on the Celeste Evans like. The website doesn't like people to post links to content rather than the site itself.

http://celesteevansmagic.com


Return to “Buzz”