Conjuring Arts Book Club

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Mahdi Gilbert
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Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Mahdi Gilbert » October 4th, 2016, 1:07 pm

Hello Everyone,

Many of you know that I have created and run the Conjuring Arts Summer Reading Program for the last few years. Every week of the summer I would create a new ebook version of a classic text of magic and we would release it to the magic community for absolutely FREE. From 2013-2015 we've given away over 40 great magic books, including titles such as Erdnase, Expert Card Technique and even Tarbell.

A lot of people have been asking me, "Mahdi, what happened to the summer reading program?", since there wasn't one this year and now I can finally answer... We've been working on the Conjuring Arts Book Club!

Which like our summer reading program is 100% FREE for everyone!

Here's how it works:

Every month we will release a new ebook version of a magic book completely FREE for the magic community to download, read, and study.

THEN... near the end of the month we will broadcast a livestream onto the internet with an expert in the book's subject to discuss the book and it's contents.

For example, our first Book Club book is Money Magic by Will Blyth. The expert we chose to discuss this book on coin magic is none other than the greatest coin magician alive, David Roth! This livestream will take place on Saturday, October 29th.*

*Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter to get the link the day of.

Also, as a BONUS... David Roth is teaching a 2.5 hour workshop on the Okito Coin Box at our university for only $79.99 to celebrate the launch of our Book Club.

Please enjoy the Book Club and also: Feel free to suggest books you'd like us to give away in the future and experts you'd like to be in our livestream.

Thank you,

Mahdi

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 4th, 2016, 1:40 pm

In my capacity as a psychic reverend I have been in touch with Mr Blyth in the spirit world and he is most indignant that you are giving his book away free without asking his permission. I do realise that you may find it somewhat difficult to contact him but I would of course be pleased to act as an intermediary in these matters.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Ted M » October 4th, 2016, 5:24 pm

This is great.

Bravo!

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby magicfish » October 5th, 2016, 11:34 am

Perhaps it should be called The Conjuring Arts E-Book Club?
I got excited for a moment thinking this was an actual book club.
I do not read e-books, however I do like your idea of having an expert discuss the book's contents.
Sounds like fun.

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Mahdi Gilbert
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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Mahdi Gilbert » October 5th, 2016, 12:03 pm

Mark, Percy Naldrett, who wrote the foreward, had only one complaint when the book came out; that it was too cheap. We can only imagine his reaction if he knew that we are offering a brand new, digital copy to you for FREE!

When we decide to put a book out as part of our club or summer reading program we find the best, old magic books (that are out of copyright) and we scan them. Once they are scanned as images I run them through a program that OCRs (Optical Character Recognition) them. What this does is it turns them into a PDF that is text-searchable. Most people would just stop there and release a searchable scan but I take it a step farther. I use a program that extracts the text from the actual page and replaced it with vectorized letters of the original place of the book's original text. This allows readers not only to search the ebook but also have nice, crisp words that they can read that won't become pixelated when they zoom in.

This process takes quite a bit or time. Depending on the size of the book it usually takes a few full days of work because I have to look over, format, and correct the text, headers, and footers whenever there is a typo or something is out of place. With a large release, like Tarbell which is over 1400 pages, I was working on it for 2 weeks straight, almost 16 hours a day.

Once that is done I go through the book to correct any last errors I can catch, make sure the pages look good, and add bookmarks throughout the book.

When you create a new edition of a book that is out of copyright and in the public domain, your new digital edition is automatically copyrighted in the specific version that you made it. People can still track down an original version of the physical book themselves and create their own ebook from it but the version I made while be a different version and have a different copyright, if my knowledge of copyright is correct.

Which is why you have works like Oliver Twist by Charles Dickens, that are out of copyright and public domain, republished by so many different publishing companies like Penguin and HarperCollins. They not only republish the book but usually add a little more than just the original novel by getting scholars and authors to write new sections of the book like biographies or analysis of the book and it's author. We sort of do the same thing but digitally and I do my best to make sure the ebooks look as best as I can make them look for modern readers who might be reading on computer, laptop, phone, or maybe even their TV.

Magicfish, it would be amazing to reprint all these classic magic books but at this time it is too logistically difficult and expensive so we provide them electronically.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Matthew Field » October 5th, 2016, 12:32 pm

Thanks to Mahdi and Bill Kalush at Conjuring Arts for their generosity. I am, admittedly, a magic book kinda guy so I am especially glad to see these rare books made available. And Conjuring Arts has lots of other material that I suggest you check out -- http://www.conjuringarts.org.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 5th, 2016, 1:21 pm

Mahdi. I see that Conjuring Arts have put out the 13 Steps to Mentalism. I have not been able to contact Corinda in the Spirit World concerning the matter because he was a tiny bit inebriated when I tried and besides he was always very rude to me. However for your information I was paid to annotate Step Two. At the moment I am still alive and am in a great state of gloating that you haven't been able to appropriate that bit yet!

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Tom Stone » October 5th, 2016, 2:42 pm

performer wrote:Mahdi. I see that Conjuring Arts have put out the 13 Steps to Mentalism.

Corinda died 2010. How can his work be considered public domain?

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 5th, 2016, 7:08 pm

Tom Stone wrote:
performer wrote:Mahdi. I see that Conjuring Arts have put out the 13 Steps to Mentalism.

Corinda died 2010. How can his work be considered public domain?


I know the story behind that. International Magic own the copyright and I have a copy of the paperwork where Tony Corinda signed it over to Martin MacMillan of International Magic. I was associated with International Magic for many years selling svengalis for them before going out on my own. I have known Martin since he was a child and when his father Ron passed away he took over the business and seems to be doing a damn good job of it when you consider how brick and mortar magic shops are dying off like flies.

I was in London the year Corinda died doing a lecture for Martin on palmistry and tarot cards. I had discussions with Martin concerning the 13 Steps which I won't go into right now. As a result I annotated Step Two which of course Martin also has the copyright for. Perhaps one day it will see the light.

Anyway I came across this thread on the magic cafe in 2013:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... pic=515597

I questioned this matter on the thread itself but of course they deleted it. Some twit who was obviously connected with Conjuring Arts asked me why I was concerned as it seemed none of my business. I was about to tell him before they deleted my comments. And his of course. Of course whoever the hell he was if he reads this then now he knows.

In my capacity of resident busybody of the magic world I contacted Martin and asked if he knew anything about it. He said he didn't and promptly contacted Conjuring Arts to express his concern because International Magic owns the copyright. It seems he settled by coming to an arrangement on a royalty basis with this outfit. As a wicked pitchman and scoundrel of the first order and a very suspicious nature I asked Martin how he could monitor whether he was getting the correct royalties. He just shrugged his shoulders and said he couldn't but he felt he had made his point. I suppose he didn't want the hassle.

I am glad he didn't give them my annotations. I would have screamed bloody murder and put a psychic hex on them.

Still none of this is my business but I did start wondering when Chris Wasshuber said he also had issues with them. But of course that is none of my business either. I just like to stir up trouble.

It does make one wonder though...........................

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 5th, 2016, 7:28 pm

This thread may or may not have some relevance over the matter. I have no idea. It will give you all something to talk about anyway as I keep falling asleep with boredom on the Genii Forum.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48209&hilit=wasshuber

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Joe Naud » October 5th, 2016, 11:11 pm

For the Roth class will there be any kind of recording done for those that take the class to review after completing the class?

Thanks,Joe

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby lybrary » October 6th, 2016, 6:39 am

To add to Mark's point. It appears that the copyrights for the American territory belongs to D. Robbins who has published a printed version of Corinda for decades. I do not know the details of the contract between MacMillan/D. Robbins/Tannen, but I know from communication with D. Robbins that CARC has not asked D. Robbins for permission. After all D. Robbins owns the rights for the American market and ought to be asked.

Kalush has shown a pattern of copyright infringement that spans many years and many properties. He still is in violation of my rights to various magazines including Pabular, The Magic Wand, and others.
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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 6th, 2016, 9:33 am

Yes, I have discussed the Robbins matter with Martin. Robbins acknowledges that International Magic has the copyright to the material but they do have cooperation with Martin. I suspect Corinda himself made the original arrangement with Robbins and Tannen. I vaguely remember some reference to it in the paperwork I have but I would have to check as I may be wrong. Funnily enough I believe Martin buys the books from Robbins even though International Magic is the copyright holder! It saves him a lot of hassle, I think.

To be fair I had better reserve judgement in this matter but at the very least there does seem to be some questions that need to be answered. There does seem to be a history of publishing books after the death of the author in the hopeful grounds that that they are not around to protect their copyright. I always assumed you had to be dead for rather a long time before a book became public domain. If someone departs for the spirit world fairly recently one would think it would behoove a potential publisher to make enquiries of the heirs and executors as to who owns the copyright and make an arrangement with them instead of going by the old adage that "forgiveness is better than permission".

It is a very deceptive thing to do and is exactly the sort of thing that I would get up to. And if this is indeed the case I must commend Conjuring Arts for their great wickedness. As my old friend Murray the Escapologist once said, "If you go through life and never do business with a crook you won't get anything done". However, it is best to do business with crooks when you happen to be alive I would have thought.

Yes. I do not practice what I preach but in a spirit of great mischief and feigned indignation I am here to do the preaching rather than the practicing. Besides I have done some business with Mr Wasshuber for many years and I have always found him a man of integrity. I do incline to take him at his word.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby magicfish » October 6th, 2016, 9:28 pm

Mahdi Gilbert wrote:Mark, Percy Naldrett, who wrote the foreward, had only one complaint when the book came out; that it was too cheap. We can only imagine his reaction if he knew that we are offering a brand new, digital copy to you for FREE!

When we decide to put a book out as part of our club or summer reading program we find the best, old magic books (that are out of copyright) and we scan them. Once they are scanned as images I run them through a program that OCRs (Optical Character Recognition) them. What this does is it turns them into a PDF that is text-searchable. Most people would just stop there and release a searchable scan but I take it a step farther. I use a program that extracts the text from the actual page and replaced it with vectorized letters of the original place of the book's original text. This allows readers not only to search the ebook but also have nice, crisp words that they can read that won't become pixelated when they zoom in.

This process takes quite a bit or time. Depending on the size of the book it usually takes a few full days of work because I have to look over, format, and correct the text, headers, and footers whenever there is a typo or something is out of place. With a large release, like Tarbell which is over 1400 pages, I was working on it for 2 weeks straight, almost 16 hours a day.

Once that is done I go through the book to correct any last errors I can catch, make sure the pages look good, and add bookmarks throughout the book.

When you create a new edition of a book that is out of copyright and in the public domain, your new digital edition is automatically copyrighted in the specific version that you made it. People can still track down an original version of the physical book themselves and create their own ebook from it but the version I made while be a different version and have a different copyright, if my knowledge of copyright is correct.

Which is why you have works like Oliver Twist by Charles Dickens, that are out of copyright and public domain, republished by so many different publishing companies like Penguin and HarperCollins. They not only republish the book but usually add a little more than just the original novel by getting scholars and authors to write new sections of the book like biographies or analysis of the book and it's author. We sort of do the same thing but digitally and I do my best to make sure the ebooks look as best as I can make them look for modern readers who might be reading on computer, laptop, phone, or maybe even their TV.

Magicfish, it would be amazing to reprint all these classic magic books but at this time it is too logistically difficult and expensive so we provide them electronically.

I disagree. I would not like to see them reprinted.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 7th, 2016, 2:03 pm

Why? Any particular reason? Just curious.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Roger M. » October 7th, 2016, 3:02 pm

lybrary wrote:
Kalush has shown a pattern of copyright infringement that spans many years and many properties.


I wouldn't be surprised to see a libel suit as a result of this comment.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Mahdi Gilbert » October 7th, 2016, 3:12 pm

Joe, all of our courses are live only at the moment. There will be no recordings made available to students or available after the workshop.

As for the question of copyright that has come up. You can see our Copyright Policy at http://askalexander.org/. On the bottom right you can click on Copyright Policy to read more about it. As for "13 Steps to Mentalism" by Corinda, I absolutely believe that we are doing everything both legally and ethically. Many people have been ignorantly posting, maybe willfully, "about the rights" to many things without knowing what they are talking about.

Like most businesses we have lawyers to help us ensure that we are running our non-profit library legally.

If people are actually interested in the truth then they should:
1. Contact Martin MacMillan
and
2. Contact Conjuring Arts

I'll end this by saying that I'm not a copyright lawyer and I don't know the minutiae of the details personally so I cannot answer questions in regards to this and I'm not going to confuse things further by intentionally spreading disinformation online.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 7th, 2016, 3:39 pm

Roger M. wrote:
lybrary wrote:
Kalush has shown a pattern of copyright infringement that spans many years and many properties.


I wouldn't be surprised to see a libel suit as a result of this comment.


Ain't gonna happen. I am psychic and know these things.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby lybrary » October 7th, 2016, 4:31 pm

Mahdi Gilbert wrote:If people are actually interested in the truth then they should:
1. Contact Martin MacMillan
and
2. Contact Conjuring Arts


They should also contact D. Robbins, because they have an important stake in these copyrights. They have not been contacted and yes, I have spoken with them.

When it comes to Pabular, The Magic Wand and other magazines which CARC is infringing, I think I know what I am talking about it, because I am the owner, I have all the contracts going back to the original publishers, and I have all the communication between Martin Breese and Kalush. And yes, I have also consulted with lawyers specializing in intellectual property rights.

I may remind you of two important emails I shared in another thread:

On 4/16/2013 I emailed Davenport regarding Abra being hosted and digitized at CARC/AskAlexander. This is what Bill Davenport replied:

Thank you for this. We have not authorised, or communicated with these people in any way, so yes, they are in breach of copyright.

Best regards,

Bill Davenport,
Davenports Magic, London.


1/8/2010 Martin Breese emailed to Bill Kalush:

Date: Friday, January 08, 2010 8:58 AM
From: "MBreese999" <MBreese999@aol.com>
To: <bill@erdnase.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Martin Breese magazines]
Dear Bill: I have discussed the matter with David Britland and with my work associate Chris Wasshuber and I definitely would like my magazines removed from your site. ... Please would you confirm when the magazines have been deleted from your site.

Kindest regards,

Martin


Kalush replied:

08/01/2010 23:17:57 GMT Standard Time, bill@erdnase.com replies:
Your material is no longer available through our site.


Kalush put the magazines back into Ask Alexander after Martin Breese died in 2012. Just shows you what kind of sleazeball he is. So CARC and Kalush can take its policy and shove it you know where.
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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 7th, 2016, 6:59 pm

The most illustrious Mahdi said:

"Like most businesses we have lawyers to help us ensure that we are running our non-profit library legally.

If people are actually interested in the truth then they should:
1. Contact Martin MacMillan
and
2. Contact Conjuring Arts"

Non profit? Have you heard the one about the three bears?

As for contacting Martin and Conjuring Arts there is utterly no point doing that because I have already explained that they have come to an arrangement. However, that arrangement was not made until way after the book was advertised for sale and in fact would never have been made until I notified Martin as to what was going on. Some kind of arrangement was indeed made on a I suspect, "better than nothing" scenario but that of course is pure speculation on my part although I am quite sure that I am right. After all, I always am. I do know that if Corinda was still alive he would have been a hell of a lot more aggressive over the matter. But he wasn't so he didn't.

But in any case I think the Abra matter has to be explained. As does the other magazines being published without the seeming consent of the people who hold the rights to said magazines. I think it is rather obvious that something is not quite right.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 7th, 2016, 7:04 pm

Now to present the other side of the case here is the copyright notice under discussion:

"There have been some unsubstantiated rumors posted online claiming that Conjuring Arts infringes on copyrights. We assure the users of Ask Alexander that we do NOT knowingly ever infringe on copyrights. Specifically it's been claimed that we are allowing access to Abra, Tops, New Tops and various Martin Breese properties without permission. In fact we have been given permission to include Abra by Fergus Roy of Davenports who we believe in good faith to own these rights. Further, Tops and New Tops magazines are owned by Abbott's Magic of Colon Michigan and we have arranged permanent access through Greg Bordner who is Abbott's owner. Additionally we have been given permanent irrevocable permission to allow access to many magazines and publications owned by Martin Breese. We have included access to these publications at various levels of Ask Alexander."

It plainly says that Fergus Roy HAS given permission for abra to be published. It also says plainly that Abbotts have granted access to the magazines in question. This seems fairly cut and dried. It is either true or it isn't and the accuracy would be very easy to check.

So what does Chris have to say to the above?

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby lybrary » October 7th, 2016, 7:37 pm

It appears the Abra situation is similar to the situation with Corinda. CARC had for many years Abra in their database WITHOUT permission, as my email from Bill Davenport proves. Assuming what they write is correct (and that is a stretch with CARC) it appears they have now after many years of infringing Davenport's copyrights arranged some agreement.

However, what they write about the Martin Breese magazines is complete nonsense as I have demonstrated with the email exchange between Breese and Kalush above. They are blatantly and willfully infringing my copyrights. As long as they are stealing from me I will continue to point it out. The other infringements simply demonstrate a pattern of misconduct. First steal and when caught try to get an arrangement.
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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 7th, 2016, 7:44 pm

What about the Abbotts stuff? The Tops and New Tops magazines?

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 7th, 2016, 7:48 pm

I KNOW you own the Martin Breese stuff since you are advertising the material I recorded for Martin in 1991. I swear that I actually received an email from Martin at one point saying that he had sold everything to you.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby lybrary » October 7th, 2016, 8:38 pm

I have a signed contract with Martin Breese and my ownership of his business is entered in his last will which is a public document anybody can get from the probate in the UK for something like $10. So anybody who is interested can verify this. In point 4 of his last will it says:

"I GIVE all the items related to magic and referred to in the contract dated 12 September 2007/1 December 2007 made between me and Christoph Wasshuber to Mr. Wasshuber absolutely (for the avoidance of doubt)"

In other words, my contract with Martin was signed in 2007. Unless Kalush can produce paperwork predating my contract with Breese he is infringing my rights. (This is purely a rhetorical statement. Kalush cannot produce such paperwork, because none exists. Martin never licensed or sold these rights to anybody but me.)
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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 7th, 2016, 9:46 pm

Then why don't you come to some arrangement with Kalush in the same way he has come to an arrangement with others? Or do you feel that there is so much animosity between you that you can't bring yourself to do it? Or is it just a case of you don't trust him?

I think if I were he I would just let you have all the material back and have done with it for the sake of peace and quiet.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby lybrary » October 7th, 2016, 10:38 pm

Why would I reward such a massive theft going on for that long with a deal? There is no basis for a deal. The first step would be for CARC to stop the infringement and acknowledge my ownership of the material. Then they would have to make an offer. I don't think this will ever happen.
Last edited by lybrary on October 7th, 2016, 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 7th, 2016, 10:50 pm

Because it is going to go on anyway by the look of things. You might as well get something out of it. I would make it a lump sum and rather a large one to take care of past years. Then put the damn thing behind you.

If I were them I would say, "OK, have the bloody things back then. We aren't making any money out of them anyway" and give the damn things back. That seems to be the sensible way out to me.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Roger M. » October 7th, 2016, 11:50 pm

Of course the elephant in the room is the fact that CARC is a library, and a library doesn't need to seek permission from anybody to put a book in their library.

Chris may argue that CARC charges a fee for the use of the library.
Well - I'm a taxpayer where I live, and part of my taxes go to the local library - in other words, I pay for the use of the library.

What Chris DOESN'T put in his posts, is that an online library, one that may make a single book available to multiple readers, is a still open can of worms from a legal perspective, and hasn't been settled in law to the degree that CARC is remotely interested in Chris's claims.

CARC is on strong legal ground, which is why Chris hasn't done anything at all but whine in the Genii forum about the fact that CARC makes books and magazines he's associated with available for folks to read in their library.

CARC, on the other hand, maintains high ground in this situation and does what every library in the world does ... it lends out the books on its shelves!

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Tom Stone » October 8th, 2016, 4:05 am

Roger M. wrote:Of course the elephant in the room is the fact that CARC is a library,

Libraries are not allowed to make copies of the works they hold.
And internet doesn't work like a window.
In order to read something over internet, a copy is made and transfered to your computer. It not difficult to figure out that if three people in three different locations are able to read the same text, three copies have been made.
...a still open can of worms from a legal perspective, and hasn't been settled in law to the degree that CARC is remotely interested in Chris's claims.

Soo... whether Chris's claims are correct or not is of no interest to them? Well, then CARC are crooks. Simple as that.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 8th, 2016, 7:14 am

What arrant nonsense! CARC is NOT a library. I know what a bloody library looks like and this ain't it. I have already explained on another thread what a library is but I appreciate that there are many people here who do not have the privilege of a British education and may not fully comprehend my explanation so I shall repeat it on THIS thread. This is what I said:

"Quite frankly the library argument on this thread is arrant nonsense. Apart from the fact that the Conjuring Arts site looks nothing like my local library I am quite sure the laws protecting libraries were made at a time when this awful internet world did not exist. Apart from the fact that I have never seen a single copy of the 13 Steps (see the other thread) in a public library anywhere in the world in the last 50 years or so, even if it did exist it would only be taken out of the library by one user at a time unlike the present situation where everybody and his mother all over the world can peruse the work at one time. Oh, and unlike some of the other works mentioned here would have to pay for it. "

It is no good prattling about legal matters. Since 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name it is best not to get involved with that sort of tosh. Even if CARC has a legal halo around it this is a matter of morals. Either Chris has the rights to the material or he hasn't. If he hasn't then the matter is mute. If he has then CARC shouldn't be putting the stuff out without his consent. Cut and dried I would have thought.

It is perfectly obvious to anyone with the IQ of a flea that Chris has the rights to it. It follows then that the sensible course is to come to some arrangement. If Chris refuses the arrangement then it would behoove CARC to take the stuff down. They aren't getting any money out of it anyway and it won't make a tosser worth of difference to them if the magazines are not there any more.

When I sell svengali decks if someone wants their money back I reluctantly give it to them without much of a fight. Ron MacMillan used to refund the money before they even asked for it! He could sense someone in the crowd who was about to ask for a refund by looking at their face and give the money back before they even asked for it!

If there is no money to be given back anyway then just take the bloody stuff off the site. It seems common sense to me.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 8th, 2016, 8:09 am

CARC is a non-profit organization and is, in fact, a library. Not anyone can get in, but it's still a library.

It has a legal right to make electronic copies of items in the library and make them available to people at terminals IN the library. Making these items available to people via the internet is not permissible without the written consent of the copyright holder. That is the law in the United States.
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Roger M.
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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Roger M. » October 8th, 2016, 1:10 pm

I defer to Richards knowledge of copyright, however I suspect CARC's lawyers have taken a somewhat different position on the legality of lending books from a library via an online system like Ask Alexander.

My understanding is that it's more about the number of terminals that can access a copyrighted work at the same time, less so about where those terminals are located.

This falls into the same category as the common belief that it's "OK" for a teacher to read books out loud to their students, which of course - from a legal standpoint - it's not.
Reading books out loud makes a single book available to multiple parties at the same time - which (I believe) is actually the core issue under discussion in the later part of this thread ... despite all the smoke screens being thrown up.

Regardless, if Chris had a legal leg to stand on - he'd have already dealt with it and this discussion wouldn't be taking place (again!).

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Tom Stone » October 8th, 2016, 2:16 pm

Roger M. wrote:I defer to Richards knowledge of copyright, however I suspect CARC's lawyers have taken a somewhat different position on the legality of lending books from a library via an online system like Ask Alexander.

Most other pirate sites that circumvent copyright use the bittorrent protocol. Is that what CARC is using?

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby observer » October 8th, 2016, 3:59 pm

Roger M. wrote:
This falls into the same category as the common belief that it's "OK" for a teacher to read books out loud to their students, which of course - from a legal standpoint - it's not.


Where on earth did you get that idea?

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Roger M. » October 8th, 2016, 5:17 pm

observer wrote:
Roger M. wrote:
This falls into the same category as the common belief that it's "OK" for a teacher to read books out loud to their students, which of course - from a legal standpoint - it's not.


Where on earth did you get that idea?


Ummm, a bit of research.
There are many iterations of the basic premise - please let me know if I can answer any more questions.

Here are a few links to those assorted iterations noted above (there are hundreds more if you wish to seek them out):

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/02/d ... aloud-your

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090 ... 3724.shtml

https://www.quora.com/If-you-read-a-boo ... -copyright

http://technollama.blogspot.ca/2009/02/ ... right.html

https://www.theedublogger.com/2012/02/0 ... e-commons/

http://boingboing.net/2009/02/11/author ... extto.html

http://www.uua.org/worship/copyright

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/n ... ction.html

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Jackpot » October 8th, 2016, 6:19 pm

"This falls into the same category as the common belief that it's "OK" for a teacher to read books out loud to their students, which of course - from a legal standpoint - it's not.
Reading books out loud makes a single book available to multiple parties at the same time - which (I believe) is actually the core issue under discussion in the later part of this thread ... despite all the smoke screens being thrown up."

Please refer to "face to face teaching activity" under U.S. Code, Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 110: "Limitations on Exclusive Rights: Exemption of Certain Performances and Displays"

I am Legally permitted to read aloud works which are covered by copyright to my kindergarteners.

From a practical standpoint I can anyone explain to me why writers or publishers would undermine children's literacy?



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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Roger M. » October 8th, 2016, 7:15 pm

My note was simply that the concept was out there, not that I supported it.

The notion is presented in the context of the discussion in this thread about a single work of copyright being accessed (via terminal or human voice) by more than one person at exactly the same time - and how that relates to existing copyright law and precedent.

Although the concept of a teacher not being allowed to legally read to their students borders on the utterly ridiculous, its out there, and it is the same basic argument that those who would argue against a person being able to access a copyrighted work via a computer terminal in their home versus accessing that same work on a computer terminal in the lobby of their local library.

The other point of bringing this up was simply to note that, because its counterproductive to let a single party control the narrative, there may indeed be a completely different situation at play than the one Chris and his sycophants are attempting to insinuate onto the OP's first post in this thread.

In more basic language - don't believe everything you read on the internet.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 8th, 2016, 8:12 pm

I am not interested in this semantic talk or legalese waffle. The jabberings of crooked lawyers specialising in manipulative language are of no concern to me and shouldn't be of concern to anyone else either. It is all a smokescreen to hide the main issue.

All that should concern anyone is what is right and what is wrong. Either there has been a deliberate breach of Chris's rights or there hasn't. He is either correct in his complaint or he isn't. He either owns the copyright or he doesn't. He is either entitled to be upset or he isn't.

Waffle about the definition of a library or the ins and outs of computer terminals (whatever the hell they are) is not the issue. The issue is whether Chris is right in feeling aggrieved. That is the ONLY thing that should be at issue here. If he owns the copyright and can prove it then it seems to me that he has some reason to be aggravated. If he doesn't then he hasn't.

I do not see one single person here contesting his claim that he owns the copyright. Just a load of legalese waffle about things I don't give a toss about. It seems therefore perfectly obvious that he has something to be complaining about. I can't imagine he would be going through all this trouble for his own amusement.

CARC should just take the bloody magazines off their list and bring an end to this nonsense. Otherwise it will be all over the damn internet like wildfire. Magicians love to gossip after all. It is about time to nip this in the bud before it gets completely out of hand.

Take the damn things down and be done with it.

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Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Bill Mullins » October 8th, 2016, 9:17 pm

Tom Stone wrote:Libraries are not allowed to make copies of the works they hold.


Tom -- You should read § 108 of the Copyright Act before you say things like this.


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