DelGaudio Sez

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.
Brad Henderson
Posts: 4136
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby Brad Henderson » November 23rd, 2015, 7:26 pm

but not everyone will leave a performance or viewing of a piece having concluded that the artist had different intentions - many people leave having had very similar aesthetic experience.

And while that experience is dependant on the participation of the viewer, to say that art ISNT the product of intention is to completely dismiss the role of the artist.

you seem to be arguing from ignorance - 'if I can't determine the intention, there must not be one.'

you also seem to have an misunderstanding on what intention is - as many magicians do.

Leonardo picked his colors intentionally because he knew that these colors applied in a certain manner would likely produce a certain response in his audience. He didn't pick other colors because the feelings they would convey would be different, and not his intention.

Imagine the Mona lisa painted by picasso in his blue period.

Same 'content' - same 'intent' (by your definition) but one artist would make you feel one way looking at it, and the other a different way.

magicians assume that intention means " this is a piece about patriotism'.

if the artist can express his intention In words - he doesn't need the art to convey it.

Bill Mullins
Posts: 5276
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby Bill Mullins » November 23rd, 2015, 8:48 pm

I'm thinking I shouldn't have revived the thread.

P.T.Widdle
Posts: 694
Joined: April 30th, 2008, 1:51 pm
Location: New York City

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby P.T.Widdle » November 23rd, 2015, 10:21 pm

"As far as I am concerned, something is a work of art if it is made with the declared intention to be a work of art and placed in a context where it is seen as a work of art. That does not determine whether it esthetically rich or stupidly banal."

- Robert Hughes (with whom I had the great pleasure of working, back in the 90s)

Brad Henderson
Posts: 4136
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby Brad Henderson » November 23rd, 2015, 10:28 pm

I concur

performer
Posts: 3407
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby performer » November 23rd, 2015, 11:54 pm

My friend the great street magician Peter Snow when asked this question stated

"`When does the performance of magic become art?"
I would suggest that is when the performer is an artist.
That is, when he has the craft of the magician, the communicating
passion and skills of the performer and has the soul of an artist."

I think that is the key. THE SOUL OF AN ARTIST! If you perform as a craftsman or a businessman or a mere entertainer or what Maskelyne termed a "perfeshanal" that is all you will be. However if you perform with the soul of an artist then an artist you will most certainly be.

Bill Duncan
Posts: 1548
Joined: March 13th, 2008, 11:33 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby Bill Duncan » November 24th, 2015, 1:08 am

Joe Mckay wrote:Anyway - before you shout me down. Just remember that any laypeople who watch the great magicians such as P+T, Ricky Jay and Derren Brown - come away feeling they have seen some amazing entertainment. But - they would never class it as art, no matter how much we may want them to.


I would remind you that many great artists were horrible failures in the eyes of the public in their own lifetimes. There is something to be said for the long tail of history.

That people are still performing the Ashra so many years later, and in so many different ways, speaks to art as much as entertainment.

User avatar
Brad Jeffers
Posts: 993
Joined: April 11th, 2008, 5:52 pm
Location: Savannah, GA

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby Brad Jeffers » November 24th, 2015, 2:11 am

Brad Henderson wrote:... to say that art ISNT the product of intention is to completely dismiss the role of the artist.


Aren't pretty much all human endeavors the product of intention?

User avatar
Matthew Field
Posts: 2826
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Slydini
Location: Hastings, England, UK

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby Matthew Field » November 24th, 2015, 6:24 am

I think Mark Lewis pretty much stated what I believe. This debate has been going on for many years. When it was raised in a panel by moderator Noel Britten, I (in the audience) suggested that Channing Pollack and Cardini presented magic that was Art. I might have added Slydini, David Ben, John Carney and others to that list.

Too often these days magic is simply a vaudeville turn or low comedy.

If magic cannot be art, it holds no further interest for me.

Matt Field

performer
Posts: 3407
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby performer » November 24th, 2015, 6:34 am

And you don't necessarily have to be earning a lot of- or even any- money doing magic to be an artist. That is a matter of commerce not art. As Maskelyne stated, "Art is something with which money has no concern"

So you can be a successful professional magician without being an artist. And many are. Pros have to have a different philosophy if they want to eat. It goes like this, "Art for art's sake, money for Christ's sake!"

Sorry about the blasphemy. I first heard this from Billy Mc'Comb so you can blame him for it.

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 8209
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 24th, 2015, 9:14 am

Jeff Sheridan and Peter Samulson come to mind - using magic the way painters use paint.

Who figured out that a thin wireframe object just in front of a curtain of light can vanish into the glare? Essentially a practical black art vanish. Asking this as IIRC the LeRoy Asrah had the orchestra and the large cloth as part of the mechanics.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

billmccloskey
Posts: 169
Joined: June 10th, 2011, 2:11 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby billmccloskey » November 24th, 2015, 9:47 am

"you seem to be arguing from ignorance - 'if I can't determine the intention, there must not be one.'

you also seem to have an misunderstanding on what intention is - as many magicians do. "

Arguing from the experience of being an artist for the last 40 some years as a painter, writer, and musician. Great art transcends intension. I guess the simplest way to describe it is the feeling many artist get of having been an instrument of a higher power. In painting, whatever your intention was when you set out, there comes a time where intention is lost and something else takes over. To me, this is when the artist "gets out of the way", taps into something beyond themselves and is as surprised as anyone as to the outcome. You can experience this phenomena when in deep meditation where you literally come out of yourself and the rational, "small you" thinking disappears into something much more transcendent.

brianarudolph
Posts: 401
Joined: February 26th, 2012, 9:22 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby brianarudolph » November 24th, 2015, 11:31 am

Is magic an "art?" At the risk of ruining what razor-thin credibility I may have built up throughout my life, I don't think anything by its nature is "art" - but I do think that there are "artists" who can deftly employ a given medium or a multitude of media to produce something that can be considered "art." There are acknowledged masterpieces hanging in the Louvre and then there are the things that I paint. There are incredible symphonies and then there's me on the kazoo. There's Tiger Woods, Jordan Speith and dozens of others and then there's me duffing my way through 18 holes. There's the caesar salad that everyone else makes and then there's MY caesar salad. :D

Nothing *IS* art. Anything *CAN* be art. It just takes an "artist" to acquire and demonstrate to everyone an aspect of mastery.

That said, I still always refer to it as "The Art of Magic" ... since that's what I aspire to in my own performances. I usually don't achieve it to my satisfaction, but the effort is well worth it. And I certainly admire and appreciate it when I see many others who do achieve it for themselves and the enjoyment of others.

Brad Henderson
Posts: 4136
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby Brad Henderson » November 24th, 2015, 12:01 pm

art should transcend the object. most 'entertainments' are not comprised of symbolic acts that convey denotative as well as connotative content.

perhaps a good example is food. One can grab a handful of bread and wash it down with water. This may provide the nutrition one needs.

Compare this to a dining esperience where the shape of the plates, the color scheme of the linens, and each and every morsel carefully planned not just to deliver sustenance but also to convey an intended feelingful response.

Not all entertainment transcends the act to achieve the level of art. And it is true that one's perspective as a viewer does impact what one can see/feel/hear.

because magic is seldom presented as more than puzzles, the feelings we convey often little more than the superficial, visceral reaction to surprise and puzzlement, it is unsurprising that many leave a magic show without considering it art. They aren't expecting to experience art and 'see' the performances through very narrow eyes.

But when people with experience with art see Ricky jay or Derren brown, they DO see it as art.

but one refrain here is important: magic can only be art when presented artfully.

that requires we present magic that transcends the mere trick.

As max said, "tricks are about objects. Magic is about life."

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 8209
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 24th, 2015, 12:08 pm

brianarudolph wrote:... I don't think anything by its nature is "art" ...


Part of the "nature" in your post involves a notion of value beyond the utilitarian or venal - something affecting. Evidence of craft is not the same as evidence that a work was designed to be perceived as art. Who is supposed to see it? What are they supposed to feel? Let's not fret over modern art aesthetics (abstracted sentiment/representation/deconstruction/hyperrealism...)

Is comedy an art? Not so many people can get an audience laughing.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

performer
Posts: 3407
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby performer » November 24th, 2015, 3:36 pm

The cynical grafter in me (and grafting is NOT an art!) tempts me to snort derisively, "WHO CARES?"

Still, one hint that magic IS an art is the amount of space and discussion this topic is taking up. There is so much depth to the subject that I feel it has to be an art. All magic needs now are artists but alas they are very hard to come by.

performer
Posts: 3407
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby performer » November 29th, 2015, 7:11 am

Q. Kumber wrote:My subjective definition of "art" is when (through creative expression - music, painting, performing etc) I feel the soul of the creator has touched my soul.

The exact same thing can be experienced by two different people in diametrically opposite ways.

For example, in my early twenties, I was in Dublin city centre and a pitchman named Henry was demonstrating and selling bird warblers on the street. He was superb and his dem conjured up a farmyard and bird sanctuary of invisible creatures. I've never seen it done better and it was - to me - truly wonderful. I looked up and saw one of my old school teachers, also watching. Our eyes met and I was just about to comment on Henry when he said, "Isn't it pathetic to see someone reduced to working like this."



This is completely off topic but the discussion died away ages ago so I don't think it matters. However, I feel an urge to tell you all about Henry and how he ran off with all my money and escaped to Ireland. I was living in Blackpool at the time. He was selling svengali decks for me in another city and decided to abscond with all the money. This is very common in the pitch business when you have people working for you. They do feel tempted to steal your revenue. In fact there is someone on this very thread who did the same thing to me on a lesser scale but has always denied it. I will not name him as I am very merciful and have already put a psychic curse on him. He will have a miserable life. Serves him right.

However, Henry took off with a LOT of money and I had to chase him across international borders to get it back. Years later he approached me saying, "I hope there are no old wounds still festering". There wasn't since I got my money back and there was instant forgiveness the second it was in my pocket and I said a little prayer for the bastard. After all we thieves have to stick together. Providing we don't steal from each other of course.

I will tell the Henry tale when I get time. I think it will amuse you all.

Leo Garet
Posts: 352
Joined: March 14th, 2015, 9:14 am
Favorite Magician: Nobody In Particular

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby Leo Garet » November 29th, 2015, 8:08 am

performer wrote:This is completely off topic but the discussion died away ages ago so I don't think it matters. However, I feel an urge to tell you all about Henry and how he ran off with all my money and escaped to Ireland. I was living in Blackpool at the time. He was selling svengali decks for me in another city and decided to abscond with all the money. This is very common in the pitch business when you have people working for you. They do feel tempted to steal your revenue. In fact there is someone on this very thread who did the same thing to me on a lesser scale but has always denied it. I will not name him as I am very merciful and have already put a psychic curse on him. He will have a miserable life. Serves him right.

However, Henry took off with a LOT of money and I had to chase him across international borders to get it back. Years later he approached me saying, "I hope there are no old wounds still festering". There wasn't since I got my money back and there was instant forgiveness the second it was in my pocket and I said a little prayer for the bastard. After all we thieves have to stick together. Providing we don't steal from each other of course.

I will tell the Henry tale when I get time. I think it will amuse you all.


Do you think Henry saw you as an easy mark? :)

performer
Posts: 3407
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby performer » November 29th, 2015, 10:06 am

He did. I was young and innocent then. Alas however it also happened later several times when I was not so young and innocent. I even remember about 30 years ago or so a certain now highly respected worthy from the magic castle doing the same thing. As a result I was obliged to give him his first experience of a cruise ship booking. However it wasn't really a cruise ship and he didn't get paid. In fact it cost him money and I made sure it was a long and miserable journey.

Still that was a long time ago before I developed a kinder disposition.

The only person who stole from me that I respected was Henry. He stole the most and he was the only one I recovered the money from. And he was the only real grafter among them.The rest of them were merely pathetic magicians who did not confess their sins like Henry did and ask forgiveness.

At least Henry was a real grafter and thieving is part of the job description. However that does not apply to magicians I am afraid, if they work for me.

performer
Posts: 3407
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby performer » November 30th, 2015, 6:18 am

And now here is the Henry story. I first met Henry decades ago at the Daily Mail Ideal Homes Exhibition in London where Ron MacMillan has a massive stand selling svengali decks with about 10 demonstrators all in a row. I was one of them. I used to annoy the rest of them by working very loud and stealing their crowds away by spinning a boomerang card over their heads and saying, "Never mind him, come and watch me-I am much better" which of course I was. I was a tad ruthless in those days. I will concede they got a trifle irritated with me over the matter.

Anyway one day I went up to another floor of the exhibition and lo and behold came across Henry also selling svengali decks but on his own stand. I have no idea how well or badly he was doing but he was certainly working away. He was not a magician but many pitchmen who sell svengalis are not magicians although they can work the deck far better than any magician alive.

Many years after that I met Henry in Blackpool. I can't remember what he was selling there-it may well have been svengali decks again but then it might not have been. Grafters sell different products all the time. One week they might be selling an ironing board cover and the next week they might be selling potato peelers or even a svengali deck.

Anyway I had booked the Belfast Ideal Homes exhibition but couldn't go because of my commitments in Blackpool so I asked Henry if he would like to do it for me on commission. I would supply the stock and the booth and all he would have to do was show up and sell them. He was to send me the money in cash every day by registered letter (You could do that in those days in the UK and for all I know still can).

The exhibition was on for about two weeks or so and he readily agreed to do it. It went well for the first week with the money coming in every day but suddenly for the last week no money was forthcoming at all. I figured there was something wrong with the mail but eventually I realised he wasn't sending the money at all and there was no way I could contact him. No email or cellphones in those days but even if there were he would still not have responded anyway.

Anyway after the exhibition was finished he vanished into thin air with the weeks takings which was a very substantial sum. I had no idea where he was and did not know what to do except seethe about it. I had not learned how to put psychic hexes on people then although I certainly know how to do it now.

He could have been anywhere in the entire world for all I knew and I had no location for him at all. He certainly did not return to Blackpool. I called the police but they weren't particularly interested in the matter.

However, one year later I found out exactly where he was and I did not have to use my psychic ability which I hadn't developed anyway in those days. It was very easy to find out because many, many Blackpool holidaymakers told me. And they were all Irish people on holiday who gave the game away. As soon as they saw me demonstrating the svengali deck they would say, "Oh, we saw those cards being demonstrated in Dublin". So naturally I questioned them as to where and what the demonstrator looked like. They said he had an English accent and worked in a department store in I kid you not HENRY STREET! Yep. That was the name of the street and as such I regarded it as a message from heaven that it had to be him!

Countless Irish punters told me exactly where he was and so I had to decide what to do about it. I told the Blackpool police who immediately lost interest when they heard he was in another country so I figured I had better take a little visit to Dublin where I had never ventured before to see if I could recover the the rather large sum of money that he had absconded with.

I shall relate the rest of this saga later if anyone shows further interest. Let me know. I do like an audience.

Leo Garet
Posts: 352
Joined: March 14th, 2015, 9:14 am
Favorite Magician: Nobody In Particular

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby Leo Garet » November 30th, 2015, 9:23 am

Please continue. I confess I still prefer The Beano, but your scribblings are very entertaining. :)

Any adventures with Max Andrews? The Vampire catalogue was the first "real" magic catalogue I ever saw.

performer
Posts: 3407
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby performer » November 30th, 2015, 11:08 am

No adventures with Max Andrews. However, although I cannot be sure I have a suspicion that he invented my favourite trick, the Dotty Spots trick. I may be wrong here but I vaguely remember he had something to do with it. Perhaps some historian here can confirm it. I only know nearly everything.

Oh, one more thing about Max Andrews whom I have never met. I think I may well have learned card fanning from a little booklet he put out years ago. He probably wrote it.

I shall continue with the Henry saga later. I am sure he must be somewhat dead by now.

performer
Posts: 3407
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby performer » December 1st, 2015, 6:23 am

I shall now continue with the Henry story. He had my money and I wanted it back so I figured the only way to do it was to go over and confront him. I decided to take a friend with me for moral support. He was a very well built stocky chap named Dennis that could appear very intimidating and I thought that might prove useful. The only trouble is that he was more on Henry's side than mine. He kept saying, "Leave the poor chap alone, Ronnie! He was probably broke and needed the money. You really are very hard hearted!" I retorted that it was a lot of money and it was easy for him to take that attitude since it was my money rather than his. If it has been his money that had absconded to a foreign country then he would have been the first one to chase after it.

Still, I think he needed a holiday and had connections in Ireland so he decided to visit with me.

We got on a plane to Dublin and at the time I was terrified of flying. Dennis said helpfully, "Don't worry, Ronnie. "If the plane is going to crash I will knock you unconscious and you won't know a thing about it". I did not find this encouraging and I could sense that Dennis wasn't going to be a lot of help in getting my money back.

When I arrived the first thing I did was to descend on Henry Street and enter the department store where Henry was rumoured to be working. I was worried that he might no longer be there but he was indeed there in all his dubious glory. He was not selling svengali decks as I had heard but was doing some kitchen gadget or other. He didn't see me so I sneaked out of the store to consider my options.

I saw a passing policeman and decided to invoke the Majesty of the Law. Of course I was not to know at the time that the Irish police were a bit like Keystone cops so I proceeded nevertheless. I informed him that the demonstrator inside the store had absconded with all my money in Belfast (which is in the North of Ireland and under British jurisdiction) and I had come over from England to try and get it back.

The policeman brightened thinking he was going to have an easy promotion in store since all he had to do was go in and arrest the scoundrel. He asked, "has he seen you yet?" I answered "no" and we entered the store in pursuit of our prey. Then I suddenly started to think "this is too easy" and foolishly tried to make things harder by saying, "is this OK since he stole the money in Belfast which is under British jurisdiction rather than Irish?". That was rather a daft thing to say and he suddenly stopped inside the store with a look of alarm on his face, "oh, I never thought of that" he remarked as I started to curse my big mouth,"Ah Jaysus we had better not do anything. You had better contact Dublin Castle where they can apply for an extradition warrant" and then he scarpered out of the store as fast as he could never to be seen again.

I did the Dublin Castle route but soon found out that was a pretty useless thing to do. After all I still remember the Irish police finding an American murderer in Dublin named Ira Einhorn and not doing very much about it despite the FBI tearing their hair out over the matter. So what chance did I have with stolen money? When I moved to Ireland later I found that the culture was that doing a bit of thieving was perfectly socially acceptable. Perhaps that is why I moved there.

So what did I do next? Ask and it shall be given unto ye.

In other words this post is too long already. However, if you want to know the rest simply ask and the next post should finish the whole thing off. I have often thought that magicians lead a sheltered life and need to know more about the wickedness that goes on in the world. I am afraid Jeff Busby and Snap Illusions are not quite enough.

So, who wants to hear the rest of the story?

mr_goat
Posts: 158
Joined: May 22nd, 2015, 11:04 am
Favorite Magician: Glenn Bishop

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby mr_goat » December 1st, 2015, 7:26 am

Image
Yes, it is mrgoat, I just can't log in with old account.

John Bowden
Posts: 168
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Main Street, Urlingford, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland, E41 Y9K2.

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby John Bowden » December 1st, 2015, 9:59 am

In order to put this whole "story" together one would have to be careful in believing everything that is written by "Performer". I refer to the Ira Einhorn case which has more on it regarding extradition and such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ira_Einhorn

Ira was just another criminal type who came to Ireland and who adopted an Irish name.Not the first and probably won't be the last. He later fled to France where the extradition procedure took him all the way to the European Court of Justice before he was extradited to the US where he is still incarcerated.

Performer's efforts to be derogatory to everyone and everything Irish, while making a dubious story more colourful, overshadows his attempts at truthfulness.

Knowing him, and remembering his slightly unethical ways which were amusing back in the early 80's, I am very amused by his "Holier than thou" type of posts. This story of Henry is very much a story of three words.....................Pot, Kettle, Black.

mr_goat
Posts: 158
Joined: May 22nd, 2015, 11:04 am
Favorite Magician: Glenn Bishop

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby mr_goat » December 1st, 2015, 10:21 am

John Bowden wrote:In order to put this whole "story" together one would have to be careful in believing everything that is written by "Performer". I refer to the Ira Einhorn case which has more on it regarding extradition and such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ira_Einhorn

Ira was just another criminal type who came to Ireland and who adopted an Irish name.Not the first and probably won't be the last. He later fled to France where the extradition procedure took him all the way to the European Court of Justice before he was extradited to the US where he is still incarcerated.

Performer's efforts to be derogatory to everyone and everything Irish, while making a dubious story more colourful, overshadows his attempts at truthfulness.

Knowing him, and remembering his slightly unethical ways which were amusing back in the early 80's, I am very amused by his "Holier than thou" type of posts. This story of Henry is very much a story of three words.....................Pot, Kettle, Black.


This, plus, the fact that performer has changed his name and left the country he is from is also to be noted.
Yes, it is mrgoat, I just can't log in with old account.

John Bowden
Posts: 168
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Main Street, Urlingford, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland, E41 Y9K2.

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby John Bowden » December 1st, 2015, 11:49 am

No matter how many times he may have changed his name I'll give him credit for being a very knowledgeable magician regarding books. When I started seriously into magic around 1980 Mark advised me on books and while he was selling them to me I can honestly say that he never sold me a book that I wouldn't recommend to a beginner today.

To this day I can't do a Svengali routine withing using some of his lines of patter............eg "My grandmother had piles"

I enjoyed his friendship and company during his time in Dublin and used to delight in winding him up. Maybe I'll write a book about his years in Dublin...............I could get input from all his old friends and maybe even from Dublin Castle (Police HQ). Would Mark like to send me a chapter of his memories for inclusion?

mr_goat
Posts: 158
Joined: May 22nd, 2015, 11:04 am
Favorite Magician: Glenn Bishop

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby mr_goat » December 1st, 2015, 11:54 am

John Bowden wrote:No matter how many times he may have changed his name I'll give him credit for being a very knowledgeable magician regarding books. When I started seriously into magic around 1980 Mark advised me on books and while he was selling them to me I can honestly say that he never sold me a book that I wouldn't recommend to a beginner today.

To this day I can't do a Svengali routine withing using some of his lines of patter............eg "My grandmother had piles"

I enjoyed his friendship and company during his time in Dublin and used to delight in winding him up. Maybe I'll write a book about his years in Dublin...............I could get input from all his old friends and maybe even from Dublin Castle (Police HQ). Would Mark like to send me a chapter of his memories for inclusion?


He certainly does know about books. I'd love to see him posting more about books and useful advice rather than the trolling and attention seeking stuff.
Yes, it is mrgoat, I just can't log in with old account.

performer
Posts: 3407
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby performer » December 1st, 2015, 1:09 pm

I know all about the Ira Einhorn case and the frustration of the American authorities concerning the matter. I can assure you if Ira had been wandering around the streets of Manchester openly as Ira was in Dublin he would have been picked up and sent back in a nanosecond. Ireland is not like that as John Bowden well knows.

I still remember the time a foreign tourist was murdered in the Phoenix Park and the police didn't bother coming to look at the body for a week or so even though it was reported to them. In the end they had to do something about it as it was beginning to stink up the place.

I shall get back to the Henry story momentarily but the truth of the matter is that Ira skipped bail and went over to Ireland which is a very sensible thing to do if you are ever wanted by the law since the Gardai (the Irish police) are not known for their efficiency. I still remember seeing some kids breaking into a car yards away from a Garda officer and his seeming unconcern over the matter quite took me aback. He just shrugged his shoulders in a very nonchalant manner when I complained about it to him.

Anyway Ira found accommodation in someone's house. However, his landlord got a bit suspicious of him and decided that he would investigate the matter when he got to America where he was shortly going on holiday. When he got there he found out that he had a murderer as a lodger and was not terribly pleased about it. He therefore informed the FBI who WERE pleased about it because at least they knew where Ira was. They contacted the Gardai in Ireland and of course got nowhere apart from the usual, "Ah Jaysus, that's terrible-we'll look into it" which of course they didn't.

However, the landlord went back to Ireland and was not terribly pleased that he had a murderer in his house so he went to the police station to complain about it. Grudgingly they sent ONE police officer to accompany the landlord to confront the unwelcome tenant.

The Garda spoke to Ira and said something to the effect of, "This man (pointing to the landlord) says you've been murdering people. Ah, we don't like that sort of thing in Ireland. And you had better be gone out of this house. And be quick about it. He doesn't want you here!"

And so poor old Ira was evicted. Not arrested. Not deported back to America. That would have been far too much paperwork. Just kicked out of the landlord's house. An Irish solution to an Irish problem.

So did IRA immediately leave the country in case things were getting too hot? Of course not. The landlord was startled to see Ira wandering around the Trinity College grounds a year later.

Eventually he scarpered over to France where the Americans gradually caught up with him. I do know the FBI was furious with the Irish authorities for not being a bit more enthusiastic over the matter. I think the excuse was that there was no extradition treaty between America and Ireland at the time but of course that was a load of old baloney. If an Irish murderer had scarpered over to America and the positions were reversed he would have been handed back in a nanosecond extradition treaty or not.

So that is the real story of Ira in Ireland more or less. I shall shortly continue with the far more interesting Henry saga.
Last edited by performer on December 1st, 2015, 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

performer
Posts: 3407
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby performer » December 1st, 2015, 1:19 pm

John Bowden wrote:
Knowing him, and remembering his slightly unethical ways which were amusing back in the early 80's, I am very amused by his "Holier than thou" type of posts. This story of Henry is very much a story of three words.....................Pot, Kettle, Black.


Of course I am unethical, you silly bastard! I am a GRAFTER! I have stated this with great bluntness in the story and have concealed nothing. How on earth can you be a grafter (pitchman) if you haven't learned to lie, cheat and steal? Now do stop talking nonsense-there's a good chap.

I am not some mamby-pamby magic club conjurer who as a magician couldn't make the contents of an empty box disappear. As for the Irish I am not against the bogtrotters in any way, shape or form. After all I would sell 400 svengali decks a day to the silly bastards so why would I dislike them?

performer
Posts: 3407
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby performer » December 1st, 2015, 1:36 pm

I recount another story about the Irish police here. Look at the last post on the page and continue to the next page. It is actually an extract from my most worthy memoirs, "The Lives of a Showman"

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... 6&start=60

performer
Posts: 3407
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby performer » December 1st, 2015, 7:06 pm

I shall now finish off the Henry story. I was now in a bit of a quandary as to what to do but in the end it seemed that the only option was to confront him in person. I took along Dennis as a reluctant back up. Dennis, as I have stated felt sorry for Henry and was not on my side at all. Typical bloody grafter I suppose.

Anyway we both went in to the store and Dennis stood a few yards back. I went right up to Henry and glared at him, snarling, "where is my money?" The poor chap went white. He had a hole in his heart and I think he developed another one that moment as my appearance in front of him was entirely unexpected. He looked nervously at Dennis who was scowling in the background. Little did Henry know that Dennis was scowling at me rather than him but it all added to the effect.

He snorted, "This is between you and me. Why do you have to bring a friend along?" I retorted "to look after my interests of course"
He said he was broke and needed the money. I informed him that I needed it more and that I was not a philanthropic society for destitute grafters and if he needed help he should consult the Salvation Army. I then snarled at him, "If you don't give me my money within 5 minutes I will do two things. First, I will complain blue murder to this store you are working in and second" But then he butted in, "It has nothing to do with the store and they won't care" I retorted, "You didn't let me finish my sentence. I said the second thing I will do is to inform the police what happened and the store won't be too happy when I tell them that the Gardai will be entering their premises to cart you off"

Of course he didn't know I had already been to the police and found them bloody useless. I then informed him he had five minutes to make up his mind.

Little did I know that beneath the counter hidden away was his boss counting merchandise or something. He was on his knees doing something or other when I arrived and I did not know he was there and he declined to come up and declare his presence. Naturally he heard the complete conversation.

I went back to Dennis to wait for Henry's decision on the matter and to let him stew. Just about a minute later a little man came up grinning his head off as if he had just witnessed a marvellous comedy on TV. He asked in a very friendly manner, "Ah Jaysus, are you having a bit of trouble with Henry?" I said "Yes, I am. He ran off with all my money and I want it back. Who are you?" He responded "I am his boss. I was underneath the counter and heard the entire conversation"

Dennis looked embarrassed and said, "Ignore Ronnie, he is just being a bastard extorting money from someone down on his luck" As you can see he wasn't much help in his supposed "muscle" role. Luckily Henry didn't hear him and assumed he hadn't much longer to live.

But then the little man piped up, "How much does Henry owe you" I told him and he replied with a gigantic grin, "Ah, don't worry about it. I don't want any trouble with the store" He then took from his pocket the most gigantic wad of money I have ever seen, then went to another pocket and took out even more. He peeled off all the money that Henry absconded with and in fact gave me a little more "for all your trouble". He still seemed to have plenty left over after all that.

We all then traipsed over to Henry who looked quite shaken at the traumatic events of the last ten minutes or so. I told him that I had been paid back in full and now all was forgiven. I then told him I would pray for him which made him look even more aghast and evoked a great snort of derision and a rolling of the eyes from Dennis who said to me in front of Henry, "Ronnie, you are a real bastard. You've got your money. Why do you have to rub it in and say you are going to pray for him?" I retorted "I think he needs salvation and be forgiven for his sins. And thieving is a sin you know." With that I left and that was that.

Dennis said to me afterwards, "You would never have got the money if I hadn't been there!" I snorted "You were more on his side that you were mine" He replied, "It doesn't matter. He didn't know that. He just saw me in the distance and I didn't have to say a word. And you were a real bastard telling him you were going to pray for him. That was very nasty of you"

Alas Dennis did not understand spirituality very well.

Anyway years later I went to live in Ireland and Henry was still working away. I never went near him but he knew I was in town and I knew he was there too. I would walk by him working in Henry Street doing what we call "flypitching" in the trade which simply means working in the street without a permit. He knew I was in town and I knew he was too but we never spoke to each other for years. He did tell another grafter that he didn't like me much.

But one day he came into a place I was working, came up to me and asked if I knew where such and such was. I told him but thought "perhaps he doesn't recognise me". But then he said as an afterthough, "I hope there are no old wounds festering" and I replied, "Of course not. I hope you are doing well" and that was the end of that.

And that is the Henry story. An episode in the life of three grafters. Me, Dennis and Henry.

observer
Posts: 342
Joined: August 31st, 2014, 5:32 am
Favorite Magician: Harry Kellar - Charlie Miller - Paul Rosini - Jay Marshall
Location: Chicago

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby observer » December 1st, 2015, 10:56 pm

performer wrote: three grafters. Me, Dennis and Henry.



I'm picturing Ronnie Barker, Harry H. Corbett, and Ronnie Corbett ...

performer
Posts: 3407
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby performer » December 2nd, 2015, 5:19 am

observer wrote:
performer wrote: three grafters. Me, Dennis and Henry.



I'm picturing Ronnie Barker, Harry H. Corbett, and Ronnie Corbett ...


Not a completely accurate picture although something like that, I suppose. Very few magicians are familiar with the "duck and dive" nature of grafters. It is a world apart with all sorts of crazy, colourful characters and completely divorced from the world of magicians who by and large, are colourless, dull personalities in comparison.

We think differently, have a more cynical outlook on life, are generally better showmen, and have an edge that boring magicians can't match.

And of course, best of all, we are far better thieves. We steal from you with a smile..................

Murray the famous escapologist once gave me a wonderful compliment. I visited him in hospital once and he brightened saying, "It is nice to see this thief here!" I always treasured that.

Richard Stokes
Posts: 186
Joined: September 11th, 2008, 8:18 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby Richard Stokes » December 5th, 2015, 7:18 am

" transformers the movie is trivial" Brad Henderson

The orchestral soundtrack by Steve Jablonsky is superb. It tends to get muted in the movie.


Samples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2LjGrMxKz8

performer
Posts: 3407
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby performer » December 5th, 2015, 10:06 am

At least the movie is back at the top of the page anyway. Thank you for arranging it.

Joe Mckay
Posts: 1639
Joined: April 13th, 2008, 6:56 am
Favorite Magician: Lubor Fiedler
Location: Durham, England

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby Joe Mckay » December 5th, 2015, 12:22 pm

That was a great story, Mark. Thanks for sharing.

Also - it reminds me I need to pick up your memoirs.

Gonna' pick it up in the next month or two.

All the best,

Joe (the 7 year old kid you once sold a Svengali deck to in Gateshead!)

performer
Posts: 3407
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby performer » December 5th, 2015, 4:29 pm

Do you mind me asking how old you are now?

Joe Mckay
Posts: 1639
Joined: April 13th, 2008, 6:56 am
Favorite Magician: Lubor Fiedler
Location: Durham, England

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby Joe Mckay » December 5th, 2015, 4:39 pm

I am 33 (34 in 4 months time). And I really enjoyed you booklet on the Svengali deck.

All the best,

Joe

performer
Posts: 3407
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby performer » December 5th, 2015, 5:03 pm

I am puzzled. I could have sworn it was longer than 27 years ago. I have been in Canada for 23 years and about 10 years before that in Ireland with very little ptesence in England.I think I was working Gateshead around the late seventies. 1980 at the very latest.

You must have been younger than seven at the time.

John Bowden
Posts: 168
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Main Street, Urlingford, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland, E41 Y9K2.

Re: DelGaudio Sez

Postby John Bowden » December 5th, 2015, 8:23 pm

Maybe I can help a little with some years............1979 you were on Irish Television (Late Late Show) .............36 years ago. I have no mark (excuse the pun) on when you left Ireland but I know you were still here in 1986.

You may well have been here both before 1979 and later than 1986. God.........how those years have flown.

JB


Return to “Buzz”