Favorite Coin Routines

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

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erdnasephile
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby erdnasephile » October 25th, 2015, 6:32 pm

I appreciate Mr. Lewis' extensive experience with the effect and his advice, especially with regards to the notion that one seemingly minor touch can greatly elevate the effect (I think a similar thought is echoed in John G's "One Degree").

I also find interesting routines where "dirty" objects are placed in the spectators hands, gaffed or otherwise. (Eric Jones' routine on Fool Us is a good example). There would seem to be no doubt this increases the strength of the effect; however, the issue for the less experienced performer is the risk (however small) associated with doing this.

Surely, one of the best defenses would be to develop a relationship with the audience to such an extent that they are pulling for you and don't even want to mess you up. A guilt-free casual manner and strong effect construction would seem to be paramount. However, I've also seen audience members who have accidently busted performers out of excitement or clumsiness, so avoiding animus alone may not be enough to safeguard the effect.

To those of you who have experience handing out gaffs and such, are there any other practical tips you would suggest to help mitigate this risk?

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 25th, 2015, 8:24 pm

It seems the page has not yet been found. What a surprise......................

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 25th, 2015, 9:45 pm

erdnasephile wrote:I appreciate Mr. Lewis' extensive experience with the effect and his advice, especially with regards to the notion that one seemingly minor touch can greatly elevate the effect (I think a similar thought is echoed in John G's "One Degree").

I also find interesting routines where "dirty" objects are placed in the spectators hands, gaffed or otherwise. (Eric Jones' routine on Fool Us is a good example). There would seem to be no doubt this increases the strength of the effect; however, the issue for the less experienced performer is the risk (however small) associated with doing this.

Surely, one of the best defenses would be to develop a relationship with the audience to such an extent that they are pulling for you and don't even want to mess you up. A guilt-free casual manner and strong effect construction would seem to be paramount. However, I've also seen audience members who have accidently busted performers out of excitement or clumsiness, so avoiding animus alone may not be enough to safeguard the effect.

To those of you who have experience handing out gaffs and such, are there any other practical tips you would suggest to help mitigate this risk?


There is some reference to this kind of thing in the Presentation section of Expert Card Technique. I don't have the book to hand but I think it refers to the practice of putting suspicious things near to the audience rather than hiding them. You disarm them in other words.

An excellent and perhaps essential asset of a good performer is "audacity" and "bluff". I think it could well be a tool of the trade.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby El Mystico » October 26th, 2015, 7:56 am

performer is right; I should have said the original New Stars of Magic write up.

performer is also right that the assembly happens under a spectator's hand in the Hofzinser book; "Four kings will now form an alliance in that small space covered by your hand.".

I'm not decrying the idea; it is a good one. Just performer's desperate begging for attention.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » October 26th, 2015, 8:21 am

Bill Mullins wrote:
Pete McCabe wrote:My favorite coin routine is a complete vanish of a borrowed quarter. I use it almost exclusively in casual settings. If someone asks me to do a trick, I borrow a quarter and vanish it. That will usually be all the magic I do in that performance.


The really difficult part of this trick is not the vanish, but in getting the lender to fill out a W-2 for you for twenty-five cents.


Bill, that was hilarious!!!

Jeff
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www.jeffpiercemagic.com

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » October 26th, 2015, 8:25 am

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Troy Hoosier's Charming Chinese Challenge. In my opinion, the best coin trick ever!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LkdEhIHcr4

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 26th, 2015, 10:14 am

El Mystico wrote:performer is right; I should have said the original New Stars of Magic write up.

performer is also right that the assembly happens under a spectator's hand in the Hofzinser book; "Four kings will now form an alliance in that small space covered by your hand.".

I'm not decrying the idea; it is a good one. Just performer's desperate begging for attention.


What you call "begging for attention" I call sharing my knowledge of magic which is obviously far more extensive than yours since I have devoted my life to magic and you haven't. You should be grateful for my input rather than derisive.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 26th, 2015, 11:40 am

Oh, and the idea of getting a spectator to push down on the hand to make the coins go through the table has NOT been in print for donkey's years. I have studied magic EXTENSIVELY and if I have never seen it then that means that nobody else has either.

It is not beyond the possibility that anyone else has come up with the same idea. However, I have never seen it my entire life in magic and I can guarantee that nobody else here has either (or it is at least highly unlikely.)


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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby El Mystico » October 26th, 2015, 2:17 pm

This is a bit sad.

performer said " I never read books published after 1954."
So he won't know that New Stars of Magic (like the original) is in individual monographs.
So - the answer is - it is in the MacDonalds Aces monograph. A page number in the series is meaningless.

He also said "the idea of getting a spectator to push down on the hand to make the coins go through the table has NOT been in print for donkey's years." Curious if "I never read books published after 1954."


performer has some good tips to offer; these are two of them.

However I wonder how many will spot which educational post performer deleted?

More substantially - I'd opine that liking people (apart from yourself) is fundamental to being a good magician.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby El Mystico » October 26th, 2015, 2:46 pm

To be honest, I feel real bad. I think Mark is a lonely old man. And he has some good tips from a lot of experience.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby richardingram » October 26th, 2015, 8:39 pm

performer wrote:While on the subject of coin magic here is a little known tip on the French Drop. Instead of keeping the left hand still MOVE it towards the right hand when doing the move. This will make it twice as deceptive. Retention of vision or some such thing I suppose. Or an optical illusion or whatnot. I have no idea why but doing this will make the move very deceptive indeed.

Try it.


I have been toying with this. As the hands come together, "take" the coin, then I slowly move my left hand away. I don't really care for hand to hand transfers, but this seems casual enough as long as I need my left hand "empty" for a reason.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 26th, 2015, 9:48 pm

I thought I deleted that. How were you able to access it? For the record that little idea comes from an old Sphinx idea but resurrected in "The Magician's Handbook by Robert Parrish". It does make the move twice as deceptive. I think you should keep the left hand still rather than move it after the transfer but move the RIGHT hand away.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby J-Mac » October 27th, 2015, 12:15 am

performer wrote:I thought I deleted that. How were you able to access it? For the record that little idea comes from an old Sphinx idea but resurrected in "The Magician's Handbook by Robert Parrish". It does make the move twice as deceptive. I think you should keep the left hand still rather than move it after the transfer but move the RIGHT hand away.


I think that having both the put and receiving hand moving and thus performing the drop "in transit" works best.

For an example look at this brief One Coin Flurry video by Tim Feher. At the 0.30 second mark he performs a great French Drop from his right hand to his left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klJBckxuMB0

Jim

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 27th, 2015, 6:29 am

J-Mac wrote:
performer wrote:I thought I deleted that. How were you able to access it? For the record that little idea comes from an old Sphinx idea but resurrected in "The Magician's Handbook by Robert Parrish". It does make the move twice as deceptive. I think you should keep the left hand still rather than move it after the transfer but move the RIGHT hand away.


I think that having both the put and receiving hand moving and thus performing the drop "in transit" works best.

For an example look at this brief One Coin Flurry video by Tim Feher. At the 0.30 second mark he performs a great French Drop from his right hand to his left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klJBckxuMB0


Jim


When I was around 16 years old I used to move both hands until David Berglas told me to move one hand and then the other but not both at the same time. The attention becomes split and this is detrimental. Of course we were talking about billiard balls but I believe the same principle applies. The guy in the video is moving his hands all over the place during the entire routine rather than just on one occasion so that is why he is getting away with it I think.

I think it would be helpful if I quote the Robert Parrish description. I did make a mistake when I said it came from the Sphinx magazine. There Parrish was referring to a subtlety involving looking at the date of the coin and I got a bit mixed up. Anyway here is what he said:

"The usual mistake in the performance of the move is to hold the left hand entirely still, the right hand apparently lifting the coin from the left fingers and moving away with it.The effect is much more illusory if the left hand moves with the coin up to the right hand. The moment the coin is masked by the tips of the right fingers, the coin is allowed to drop and the right fingers close around a purely imaginary coin. The right hand is now moved upward. The left second, third and fourth fingers close slightly around the coin, finger palming it, and the forefinger is pointed at the closed right hand"

This small paragraph in a sea of literature explaining the French Drop has gone unnoticed since the book was published in 1946. (I never read books published after 1954!)I think this is the reason that this useful move has been maligned over the years and is usually done very badly. Note the key sentence: "The effect is much more illusory if the left hand moves with the coin up to the right hand" I think this is the most important sentence ever written on the French Drop and it seems to have gone unnoticed for nearly seventy years.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 27th, 2015, 6:49 am

El Mystico wrote:To be honest, I feel real bad. I think Mark is a lonely old man. And he has some good tips from a lot of experience.


I am afraid your remark is both condescending and inaccurate. I am NOT a "lonely old man" and I suggest you think before you insult me. I have many, many friends all over the world and I don't mean online. These are people I have known personally over the years and they are fiercely loyal to me. They are not magicians but of course ninety percent of people in magic are not magicians either and that includes many people on this site. They are merely laymen who know how the tricks are done.

I see hundreds of people every day in my work so your definition of "lonely" possibly appertains to your single brain cell than to my interactions with the human race.

It is true that I am old. But not that old. And I can outwork people half my age. And you are not a teenager yourself even though you may act like one. As for your observation about "liking people" then I suggest you practice what you preach. Attacking someone out of the blue without any provocation is not "liking people". It is acting like a working class yob from Leamington Spa.

My age has one advantage. I have garnered experience honed over decades. I have become very good at what I do. David Berglas once remarked that I "was skilled in many areas". This is true. I am skilled at the art of svengali pitching, psychic consultations, stage hypnotism, children's entertainment, cabaret magic and most important of all close up magic particularly with cards. It might behoove you to shut up and see what you can learn from me rather than make unhelpful and insulting remarks because YOU are not getting the attention that I am. But then you don't know as much as I do so that is to be expected. And you should accept the reality of it.

I think an apology would be in order. The more abject the better.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby MagicbyAlfred » October 29th, 2015, 5:55 pm

Yes, Karate Coin is a very cool and visual effect, a quickie which gets a nice reaction when done smoothly. For a powerful coin routine that blows laymen's minds, coins across in the spectator's hand is truly hard to beat. As with any species of close-up magic (cards, sponges, etc.), effects that happen in the spectators' hands are virtually always the strongest, as many members of this Forum are already acutely aware. That is because, in a layman's mind, he/she expects you to be able to do slick and deceptive sleight of hand, and will usually chalk it up to "you're fast," or "he's quick with his hands." But when the magic happens in their hands, it exponentiates the effect. And if you work with a good s-e-l- , then veritable miracles are possible.

One other point - I find that coin routines done in the magician's own hands, or with a glass, or a coin box, while there are many done by many magicians, and cleverly so, maintain an emotional distance between performer and spectator. The spectators are one giant step removed from the magic and the magician. In other words, there is an element in those those routines of, "Look how clever I am, and "Gotcha, didn't I?" This is not to put down those routines or the many superb magicians who perform them with great artistry. But when the spectator him/herself is personally and physically involved in the magic, it takes it to a whole different level, and IMHO, that intimate interaction between magician and spectator is the essence of close-up magic. When the spectators feel like they are organically a part of the magic, there is then a built-in, as Vernon put it, "emotional hook."

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 29th, 2015, 6:21 pm

I believe there are ways for most tricks to be done in such a way as to incorporate the spectator. Perhaps the trick does not require their physical participation but you can still bring them into it by asking a question or getting them to blow on a card or say a magic word. Or something. Anything. I can't think of a single trick offhand where I don't involve the spectator in some way although I am sure there may well be one or two.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby F.Amílcar » October 30th, 2015, 8:37 am

Dear friends,

Joaquin Navajas a long time ago in magic tv show with Juan Tamariz.

https://youtu.be/D8TYnSIE_PE

I hope you like it.



Sincerely,

Amílkar Riega.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby MagicbyAlfred » October 30th, 2015, 1:10 pm

Performer wrote: "I believe there are ways for most tricks to be done in such a way as to incorporate the spectator. Perhaps the trick does not require their physical participation but you can still bring them into it by asking a question or getting them to blow on a card or say a magic word. Or something..."

True enough. However, I would be very surprised if, for example, a spectator were to exhibit the same level of astonishment when a card changed after blowing on it or saying a magic word, versus the card changing in their hand. Or, as another example, you could ask them the question: "So, do you think I could magically transport this coin from my hand to that glass? and they will then perhaps respond yes or no. OK, so you have now "involved them" by "asking a question." When you then accomplish getting it from your own hand to the glass, will that have the same impact as a magical transposition from your hand to their hand? With all due respect, I think not.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 31st, 2015, 12:17 am

Of course using the spectator's hands are more effective than asking them a question. But not every trick uses someone else's hand. In fact the vast majority don't. And there are some tricks where it takes up too much time to use the spectators hand. For example by coincidence I use your example all the time when I do the svengali deck. Sometimes I get a spectator to take the card in their own hands, wave it, and say "Quack, Quack" and when they do I respond "what a strange young woman" (or man). It gets a massive laugh and then they turn the card around and it has changed gaining more astonishment.

However, because of pacing and other reasons I haven't the energy to explain I avoid all this and simply say "blow on the card" and it changes. I usually say, "What have you been drinking?" and then show the change. It saves a lot of time and still gets great reaction. If I have time then I do the "Quack, Quack" thing in their hands but I don't always have that time.

So what happens when there is a trick that doesn't by it's very nature require audience participation? It doesn't use the spectator's hands anyway. I am talking about things like Oil and Water or Ambitious Card. Or colour changing knives or the Dr Sack Dice trick. There are MANY tricks like this.

If you do it as normal you will get reasonably good reaction. Not as much as if you use the spectator's hand perhaps but good enough. However although you can't use the hand you can do the next best thing and ask them a question. Not that question you quoted as I consider it a bit weak but something else. But you don't even have to ask them a question. There are a ton of ways of bringing them into it.

I will give you an example with my favourite trick which is Dotty Spots the paddle trick. I could do it like everyone else and just do it as is. However, I make sure there are many spectator moments in the routine. I get someone to pass their hand over the paddle, I produce a spot from behind someone's ear, I get them to blow one spot onto another paddle. At one time I used to borrow an invisible hair from a person's head for the finale.

You can make virtually any trick a spectator involvement trick. For the ambitious card you can tell someone to say "rise".

For close up magic there should be virtually 75% audience participation of some kind. It doubles the response. If you can do a trick such as sponge balls which uses the spectator's hands so much the better. But most tricks are not like that so you MAKE it so that it involves people.

Magic is PEOPLE.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 31st, 2015, 6:58 am

F.Amílcar wrote:Dear friends,

Joaquin Navajas a long time ago in magic tv show with Juan Tamariz.

https://youtu.be/D8TYnSIE_PE

I hope you like it.



Sincerely,

Amílkar Riega.



Aha! I only just looked at this video. It is an excellent example of what I am talking about. I have always loved the Kangaroo coins and I think using the glass is far more effective than doing the trick without as it is often done. Of course you have to have the glass handy and that is not always possible when working impromptu.

But this is a really good example of what I am preaching here. The Kangaroo coins (described in one of the Vernon contributions to the Stars of Magic) does not normally require any spectator participation at all but this perfomer finds a way of doing it.

Now you don't have to do it every trick of course. He follows it up with a Matrix which doesn't need anybody's help. But it is justified because it makes a good contrast. And you have to be careful when you get people to help as if done badly or at the wrong time it can slow up the trick.

But generally and used intelligently it is a very good strategy and I recommend it. Again it should be used a good 75% of the time when doing close up magic.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby erdnasephile » October 31st, 2015, 12:07 pm

The weirdest thing about that video clip is that someone actually whistles at that lady when she comes up to help. Nice.

One other thing about asking spectator's to help. I've seen magicians use spectators as nothing more than organic tables. This, in it's own way, can be embarrassing for the spectators, as evidenced by the "Why am I being asked to do this?" looks these "spectators used as props" sometimes give. (It's the same expression I get when a speaker repetitively makes me answer the question "How is everybody doing tonight?" at the start of a talk).

Therefore, in order for me to ask for spectator participation, there has to be a logical reason for it in order for the gambit not to be seen as exploitative or cheesy.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby El Mystico » October 31st, 2015, 2:00 pm

On the whistling; did she seem upset by the whistle?
There is a line in these things; and it is better to be well inside those lines; but I don't think there was an issue here; and it was certainly nothing to do with the performer.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 31st, 2015, 4:56 pm

Dingle's Coins though Table used a glass, and if and Vernon both used a glass, that's good enough for me.
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby erdnasephile » October 31st, 2015, 5:27 pm

El Mystico wrote:On the whistling; did she seem upset by the whistle?
There is a line in these things; and it is better to be well inside those lines; but I don't think there was an issue here; and it was certainly nothing to do with the performer.


Fair point and I agree. Just seemed someone in the audience wasn't particularly classy--not a huge deal--just something I noticed.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 31st, 2015, 10:53 pm

My observations about spectator involvement apply to close up magic rather than platform or stage work. Here I do tend to agree with the late David Bamberg that you are better off with not too much of it. In his full evening show he would use a volunteer once in the first half and once in the second half. He felt that was quite enough.

In a say, twenty minute once is enough although of course there are exceptions to every rule. Mentalism is probably one of those exceptions although you could probably apply it to some extent by keeping your spectators in the audience for many of the tricks and have the onstage stuff kept to a minimum.

Of course pickpockets and hypnotists keep volunteers on stage virtually the entire performance. Still for a regular magic act the less the better I think.

Nothing is set in stone but I think I would tend to follow this policy as much as possible.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 31st, 2015, 10:57 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Dingle's Coins though Table used a glass, and if and Vernon both used a glass, that's good enough for me.


Indeed. It is much stronger this way and if I have a glass available this is exactly what I do. If I don't have a glass available I just do the best I can without. It is still pretty good. But the glass is way better.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby F.Amílcar » November 1st, 2015, 4:14 am

Dear friends,

Another plot by Joaquin Navajas, this time THE HOOK. Based in the trick by David Roth called:

HANGED COINS.

https://youtu.be/QHlBSmYyttI

I HOPE YOU LIKE IT TOO

Truly yours,

Amílkar Riega i Bello.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Leonard Hevia » November 14th, 2015, 9:03 pm

Earlier I mentioned the Karate Coin on this thread as one of my favorite coin effects. I recently picked up a Roy Kueppers Karate Coin and it is killer! My old KC looks like it was shot out with a bullet. Kueppers' coin looks much more realistic, as if your finger busted right through the center.

Anyone interested can purchase it at the Frozen Bird:


http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/5233
Last edited by Leonard Hevia on November 14th, 2015, 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 14th, 2015, 10:20 pm

Roth used a coin without the "busted open" effect. That's how it's described in Expert Coin Magic.
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Leonard Hevia » November 14th, 2015, 10:43 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Roth used a coin without the "busted open" effect. That's how it's described in Expert Coin Magic.


There's two versions of this effect: The Finger Gimlet from Hugard also described in Roth's Expert Coin Magic and the busted through version. The former creates the illusion of your finger melting through like the Cigarette Thru Quarter that leaves the coin unharmed. Curtis Kam has a version on his Silverado DVD that BTW contains more great coin magic.

The latter jagged edge version is more of a gag, but it leaves the destroyed coin on your finger: Eye candy that makes the muggles do a double take. Kueppers doesn't overdo the jagged edges on his Karate Coin.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Gerald Deutsch » January 6th, 2016, 11:15 am

I like Pete McCabe’s idea above of vanishing a borrowed quarter when someone asks the magician to do a trick.

I do this as Perverse Magic. I borrow the quarter and say I will make it float and then I’m confused when the quarter vanishes.

(With Perverse Magic what happens has to be stronger than what you say will happen and I believe a vanish is stronger than a floating coin.)

I reach into my pocket and bring out a handful of change and take a quarter and looking confused, I give it to the lender.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Rick Kirkes » April 27th, 2016, 6:20 pm

I only do this for family and friends. It's called The Silver Passage by Gary Ouellet from Camirand Magic. It's a four phased presentation that uses four half dollars ( ungimmicked ) and a round mirror. When the hands pass-over the mirror that's when the magic happens.

You need to be sitting down during to do this. I like the flow of this routine.http://www.camirandmagic.com/mm01_3.html

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Joe Mckay » April 28th, 2016, 10:17 am

GENII has had two brilliant coin tricks in recent years.

Check out 'Arca' by Apollo Riega in the December 2015 issue. And also 'Three Coins and a Shotglass' by Jindai Nishikawa in the June 2014 issue.

I am a coin magic newbie. As such I am looking for tricks that are amazing, sneaky and not too difficult to do. These tricks fit the bill.


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