Idea! Online Tenyo Instructions Database

[Angelo Carbone]

I was wondering... you know sometimes when we go to get out a Tenyo trick we haven't performed for a while and then try to do it and forget a crucial part? Well why don't we have an accessible list of pdf scans of all the instructions online?

We could bookmark the link on our phone so we can have access to a particular trick's instructions wherever we are.

Perhaps amongst all of the collectors here we can each scan ten instructions and upload them. Eg: I scan T-01 - T10, collector B scans T-11 - T12 etc.

What do you think? Yay or nay?

[Bill Mullins]

Assuming the Tenyo company is okay with it, sounds like a good idea.

[Angelo Carbone]

Do you think they wouldn't be? Only Tenyo collectors would have the link so it wouldn't be too public.

[edshern]

Great idea.
Why would Tenyo care?
I would scan a bunch in.
Just tell me where to send em.

Ed

[Tom Leyland]

I think it's a great idea and this raises a very interesting discussion.

Magic is a VERY SMALL piece of Tenyo's toy business, this doesn't mean they wouldn't mind; they very well may, but IMHO, I think they could care less. Tenyo is well aware that people copy and distribute trick instructions. People lose instructions, sell tricks without instructions on eBay, etc.

So long as the instructions/secrets were not readily accessible by anyone on the Internet as Angelo suggests; they would have a helluva time citing wrong doing. Especially since we're Tenyo heads/supporters and therefore support Tenyo as a company. If you were selling the instructions, then there would be a problem. There is no monetary gain to be had here, we're all Tenyo nuts looking to ease the headache of locating instructions when we need them in the digital age.

For years and years magic has relied on the merit of others to keep secrets secret, I don't see a difference here. So long as someone owns the trick that they upload instructions for, they have bought the secret from Tenyo. One could say that allowing someone else to access the instructions who doesn't own the trick is stealing secrets, but what is the secret worth without the prop(s)? Nothing.

I'm sure this very notion has been tossed around by Tenyo before. Tenyo could make the case that they will sell the secret in digital form on a per instruction/secret basis. Until that time, I can't see the liability in this albeit I'm no lawyer. If they were doing this and one of us did this, then I could see the conflict of interest.

[Angelo Carbone]

Exactly. As you say even if someone downloads the instructions to a trick they don't own, its not as if they can make up there own copy of the trick. Tenyo tricks are far too intricate at times. Who knows, maybe reading how clever the secret is might encourage the reader to purchase said effect.

[Tom Leyland]

Exactly. As you say even if someone downloads the instructions to a trick they don't own, its not as if they can make up there own copy of the trick. Tenyo tricks are far too intricate at times. Who knows, maybe reading how clever the secret is might encourage the reader to purchase said effect.

Bingo!

I believe Tenyo is well aware that eBay sales of discontinued tricks excites us into buying more Tenyo; especially the latest offerings!

Tenyo as a company is comprised of reasonable folks and I don't believe for a second they would care. It's only here in the U.S. where everyone wants to sue everyone else for anything they possibly can. I know enough about the Japanese culture to know that while they are business driven, they're far too shrewd to be concerned with a matter like this.

[Richard Kaufman]

There is no way to create a registered database of Tenyo collectors. Anyone who's ever bought a single trick would qualify. Who's going to maintain it? Not a practical idea.

And, Tenyo owns the copyright and IP rights to all of those instructions and they have no intention of putting them in a database. The only way that could happen is if the company went out of business without selling its assets and things went into the public domain.

But if the law in Japan is like the law in the UK, when a company goes bankrupt, all rights automatically revert to the original artists, not the company who purchases the assets.

So, sorry to pee on your idea. In a perfect world it would be a wonderful thing. But it's an imperfect world and it will never happen.

[Pete McCabe]

What would happen if someone made a wiki-style database where people who own Tenyo tricks can post instructions written in their own words? In America, at least, copyright on the instructions only applies to the specific words used. If you write up instructions in your own words the copyright belongs to you.

[Angelo Carbone]

Boo hiss Richard!

I never meant to make a database of Tenyo collectors or even research who they were. I meant just collate all the instructions online and keep it for this most excellent small group of Tenyo collectors.

As for maintaining it, am sure an open login on say a Skydrive account would be good so users can upload and access in their own time.

[Richard Kaufman]

Well, that's the problem Angelo. You're making copyrighted material available to people who may have no legal right to view it.

[Brad Henderson]

While instructions might help one remember the mechanical handling of a trick, I know personally I often regret forgetting the presentational elements of a piece - including timing, rhythm, blocking, etc.

Perhaps making videos of the performances of the tricks would be enough to "remind" one not only of the presentational content but also the method as well.

[edshern]

First, Lets say their are 10 Tenyo collectors to start.
2- 250 tricks. = 25 tricks each.
3- So as an example; I could be the go to for T75- T100 (less 77, 82 & 83 which maybe I don't have.)
4- this could be a simple ongoing post here in the forum.
5- You need 35 posts to have your name added to the ongoing list. Also many are known here.
6- we just let the concept evolve from there. No moderator, just evolution and consensus.
7- Maybe it works maybe it £. but we try.

Anyway, just an idea.

Ed

[Richard Kaufman]

This entire concept of this is a violation of Tenyo's copyright. Topic closed.