Tamariz...the new Vernon?
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Tamariz...the new Vernon?
I think about this a lot...who is this generation's Dai Vernon. Jaun Tamariz seems to fit all the requirements. Vernon was a pied piper; wherever he settled, magicians came. Tamariz has that same mystical aura around him, that same x-factor that makes us get up and move. He typifies not only what it means to be a magician, but what it means to be an artist.
One gets the feeling Tamariz, like Vernon, chose magic as a means of expression, but that their decision was entirely irrelevant because had they chose painting, filmmaking, or writing, "some other group" would have been hailing their virtuosity.
Of course, we thank them for choosing magic...
It's impossible to have these discussions without heated debate; opinions will always vary. But I just wanted to put it out there because I think about it a lot
One gets the feeling Tamariz, like Vernon, chose magic as a means of expression, but that their decision was entirely irrelevant because had they chose painting, filmmaking, or writing, "some other group" would have been hailing their virtuosity.
Of course, we thank them for choosing magic...
It's impossible to have these discussions without heated debate; opinions will always vary. But I just wanted to put it out there because I think about it a lot
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
I think about this a lot...who is this generation's Dai Vernon.
The cafe beckons.
"Whit Hayden" wrote:Asking who the modern day Vernon or the current Houdini is--is, well, silly. It is the kind of question only asked by those who knew none of the names in question.
Who is today's Al Jolson? Who is the new Louis Armstrong? Is Springsteen still the new Bob Dylan?
Vernon was one of a kind. What he did does not need to be done again. He was not the new Hofsinzer or the new Erdnase. He was Vernon--a fascinating and difficult man who made a huge contribution to the art of magic.
Like Prometheus, he brought us fire from the gods--magic that would not be still here with us today had Vernon not existed. Much of it was original, much was learned from the masters of the Golden Age, and everything had his thought, touch, and imprint on it.
Billy McComb, Johnny Thompson and the others mentioned here are giants in their own right, and not just "the closest thing to Vernon."
They have made their own unique contributions to the art of magic.
It is impertinent and presumptuous to use such language, and I sincerely doubt that any of the people mentioned so far would appreciate being nominated for such a "title."
--Pop Haydn
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
I agree
Genetically and Historically speaking, there will never be another Vernon.
But this isn't what I'm asking. The forth paragraph of your quote is what I'm getting at
Genetically and Historically speaking, there will never be another Vernon.
But this isn't what I'm asking. The forth paragraph of your quote is what I'm getting at
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
Did you read the whole quote?
Your reply suggests to me that perhaps you did did not get the full meaning of Whit's very smart take on this sort of question.
Your reply suggests to me that perhaps you did did not get the full meaning of Whit's very smart take on this sort of question.
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
I too agree with Whit. Dai Vernon was one of a kind.
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
maybe I should rephrase my question: Is there one magician who could inspire you to relocate geographically for the chance to study under him?
and why...
and why...
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
I support Whit's take on the silliness of the question.
The world that Vernon was born into and grew up in, the magicians that he was exposed to and with whom he associated and watched in vaudeville no longer exists. It was gone before World War II.
In one of Christopher's history books he mentions that there were 4,000 magicians who worked vaudeville over its history. I presume that both Europe and English music halls had thousands as well, most of whom we will never know much about. That means a lot of working professionals saw and influenced each other in large and small ways. There was a different synergy back then.
That and amateur magic had a small population with books and apparatus being expensive and hard to get. The dissemination of magic knowledge was limited and slow to spread, unlike today where it proliferates, often at the speed of light. Today amateur magic has a different demographic and was not coming of age as it was in the 1920s, 30s, and 40s.
It's a very different world today. Vernon, like those who came before, his contemporaries, and those who followed were unique, products of their time, environment, and individual psychology.
I would not equate Vernon with Prometheus as he was primarily influential in the amateur magic community. There were magicians who were far more influential in the professional realm - first Cardini and then Channing Pollock changed the look and approach of review-type acts along with Benny Chavez who trained a number of similar performers as he took advantage of the GI Bill; Thurston changed the look and feel of the big magic show when he took over Kellar's show; Dunninger inspired generations of mentalists with his one-man approach, etc.
Read more magic history, Chris and you'll come up with better questions.
The world that Vernon was born into and grew up in, the magicians that he was exposed to and with whom he associated and watched in vaudeville no longer exists. It was gone before World War II.
In one of Christopher's history books he mentions that there were 4,000 magicians who worked vaudeville over its history. I presume that both Europe and English music halls had thousands as well, most of whom we will never know much about. That means a lot of working professionals saw and influenced each other in large and small ways. There was a different synergy back then.
That and amateur magic had a small population with books and apparatus being expensive and hard to get. The dissemination of magic knowledge was limited and slow to spread, unlike today where it proliferates, often at the speed of light. Today amateur magic has a different demographic and was not coming of age as it was in the 1920s, 30s, and 40s.
It's a very different world today. Vernon, like those who came before, his contemporaries, and those who followed were unique, products of their time, environment, and individual psychology.
I would not equate Vernon with Prometheus as he was primarily influential in the amateur magic community. There were magicians who were far more influential in the professional realm - first Cardini and then Channing Pollock changed the look and approach of review-type acts along with Benny Chavez who trained a number of similar performers as he took advantage of the GI Bill; Thurston changed the look and feel of the big magic show when he took over Kellar's show; Dunninger inspired generations of mentalists with his one-man approach, etc.
Read more magic history, Chris and you'll come up with better questions.
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
Chris Deleo wrote:maybe I should rephrase my question: Is there one magician who could inspire you to relocate geographically for the chance to study under him?
and why...
That's not really much clearer (or less silly). It's one (very small) step removed from "Tell me your favorite magicians".
Do a search on any forum (once again, the cafe is particularly rife with this), and you'll likely find that this particular ground has been well trodden.
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
Chris(D) - you can find lots about what you are asking to discuss over at the magic cafe. Here's a link: www.themagiccafe.com Folks here tend to be way past the idolizing and search for mentors and some actually recall less than flattering things about those who others seek to idolize.
Chris (A) Some folks leak over here from the cafe - same newbie posts and lack of book/mentor education. The issue is how we treat them.
Best wishes,
Jon
Chris (A) Some folks leak over here from the cafe - same newbie posts and lack of book/mentor education. The issue is how we treat them.
Best wishes,
Jon
Last edited by Jonathan Townsend on July 12th, 2009, 2:30 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: typography
Reason: typography
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
Ouch...you guys are rough.
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
Chris Deleo wrote:Ouch...you guys are rough.
Go play in the Erdnase thread.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
Chris Deleo wrote:Ouch...you guys are rough.
Sorry if it came off that way.
I was hoping that the Whit Hayden post would put that sort of thing in context for you. Barring that, I thought it perhaps useful to point you to a place (cafe) where you could better find what you seem to be looking for.
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
Chris Aguilar wrote:Chris Deleo wrote:Ouch...you guys are rough.
Sorry if it came off that way.
I was hoping that the Whit Hayden post would put that sort of thing in context for you. Barring that, I thought it perhaps useful to point you to a place (cafe) where you could better find what you seem to be looking for.
Chris - you missed it - the troll tell. If they were just a dolt they would have asked "What's Erdnase"
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Chris - you missed it - the troll tell. If they were just a dolt they would have asked "What's Erdnase"
Right.
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
Chris Deleo wrote:who's Erdnase?
Dead guy from Montana. Didn't you get the memo?
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
Chris Deleo wrote:who's Erdnase?
The new Vernon?
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
What next - you gonna explain the joke?
Next troll please
Next troll please
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
Tamariz is the new Vernon? Someone call Carney and tell him someone beat him to it.
Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
Didn't Tamariz himself refer to Ascanio as Spain's answer to Vernon?
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
If Ascanio was the answer, what was the question?
Can this get any sillier?
Apparently, the answer is yes.
Can this get any sillier?
Apparently, the answer is yes.
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
My Cocker Spaniel is named Depth Illusion.
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
Pete McCabe wrote:My Cocker Spaniel is named Depth Illusion.
Did Ed used to call him "Tilt" ? ;)
Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
Joe Pecore wrote:Pete McCabe wrote:My Cocker Spaniel is named Depth Illusion.
Did Ed used to call him "Tilt" ? ;)
Which version?
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Re: Tamariz...the new Vernon?
I call my Dad Dad, after the Dad Stevens cull.