What do people really think of FISM?

[Tim Ellis]

In episode #45 of Magic Mornings , about two thirds through the commentators take a few shots at FISM and whether it should call itself "The Olympics of Magic" (which it doesn't).

What do the Genii Forum people think? Does FISM feature the "best of the best"? Is the FISM Grand Prix the "ultimate prize" in magic, or is there a higher accolade to aspire to?

[Steve V]

I've always been more impressed with people winning the academy of magical arts awards. FISM is one of those contest where one tends to hear so and so did better than the winner but the judges thought a gimmicked card was used etc.. Just doesn't do anything for me I'm afraid.

[MaxNY]

A great place to meet magicians from all over the world. The best place to see acts from all over the world. Powers that be, have secret agendas. I believe it is the ultimate prize, but also believe they should take steps so that this question never is an issue.

[Rick Schulz]

The Olympics are occasionally held in the USA but FISM is almost always (with 2 exceptions) held in Europe. It certainly qualifies as the European Olympics of Magic.

[Kamal]

In episode #45 of Magic Mornings , about two thirds through the commentators take a few shots at FISM and whether it should call itself "The Olympics of Magic" (which it doesn't).

Well, as one of those "commentators" I'll tell my side.

Firstly, we had a crack at FISM for it's lack of information provided about the event (who's lecturing etc.) Many people on this forum, and in real life, have said the exact same thing to me - so I don't think I'm alone in criticising FISM on that front.

The "olympics of magic" phrase is not FISM's title, but both magicians and journalists have no problem using it:

Google search for "olympics of magic"


I'm going to Beijing for FISM, so my beef is not with FISM - it's with the people that assume that because it's the biggest convention in the world, that it's the equivelant to the olympic games. It's not.

Like I said in that Magic Mornings episode, they don't hold trials in each country, and don't get the absolute best the industry has to offer.

I suspect the phrase has been perpetrated by magicians looking to give reporters a hook. I mean, it does sound impressive to say you were the a winner at the olympics of anything.


I should also mention that the new episode of Magic Mornings is online, and to see the "controversial" comments I made, you'll need to click the link for last week's episode.

[Kenardo]

In my opinion, the current organization of and politics in FISM have blotted the reputation of the entire conference and competition. I have been to 4 FISMS - two in the Netherlands, and one each in Portugal and Sweden. So, I can only comment based on those experiences.

The last night of the last FISM summed up for me where FISM stands right now. There were serious questions regarding the voting of certain awards. Althought the FISM council had voted the next FISM to take place in China, that decision did not seem positively received by many FISM attendees. Rumors ensued regarding both issues. The winners were treated without the respect and honor they deserved at the award ceremony. And to top it off, the President of FISM was "booed" by the 2000+ audience at that show. The big difference between that night and most of the other final FISM nights was the "down" atmosphere amongst the conventioneers. The only other negative end to a FISM was the banquet in Portugal without enough food to feed everybody. (Of course there was also that one night when about 800 gala show attendees were stranded at the theater at 1 AM without bus transportation.)

On the other hand the two FISMS in Holland were fabulous. The FISM in Portugal was poorly organized but featured great talent throughout. Stockholm was disappointing in that they had too many people attending for the size of the venue (e.g. I remember the "mooing" of the crowd trying to get into the close-up competition hall and the "zoo" at the late night events). From what I understand, it was the central FISM organization that pressured the Swedish Magic Circle to process the overflow of registrants.

I think that the Grand Prix is still the ultimate prize in magic, but if the FISM organization continues sputtering rhetoric rather than delivering performance, that reputation will be put in jeopardy. I really hope they get their act together. More controls designed to ensure the delivery of a top notch convention has to be put in place.

Regarding the name issue, FISM is only a meaningful name in the Magic World. Olympics of magic probably means more to the lay public. I really do not see why they cannot market the event tying both the FISM name (It's a cool acronym) with the olympic conotation. Just a thought.

[Tim Ellis]

Kamal, thanks for adding your voice to the discussion. Your comments have certainly prompted some very helpful discussion about FISM.

Even "the powers that be" at FISM feel you made some interesting points.

I did feel you were correct in citing the lack of information given out by Beijing, but when you asked Dean "Do you know WHERE FISM is being held?" I thought that was a little unfair, especially as you said you're going.

However, the point you made about trials in various countries was timely as that is what FISM has been working on for the past few years.

The aim is to have local competitions within countries one year, continental competitions the next year, and the world championships the year after that.

This year they tried to run a European Championship but that didn't happen for reasons I don't know. They are running an Asian Championship in Korea later this year, and they tried to get us to run an Oceanic Championship but at this stage the Australian scene is too fragmented to get it together. Hopefully we'll be able to start something local here in Aus in 2010 - fingers crossed.

So your points are valid - FISM is trying to do exactly what you said - hold trials to ensure only the best of the best compete.

Whether it succeeds or not is up to the individual magicians in each country.

Do they believe in FISM?

Do you?

[Tim Ellis]

Oh, and good idea advertising your Magic Mornings on the NZ Ezine too Kamal, otherwise we may never have discovered that little gem.

[Kamal]

I did feel you were correct in citing the lack of information given out by Beijing, but when you asked Dean "Do you know WHERE FISM is being held?" I thought that was a little unfair, especially as you said you're going.

You're right - but like the rest of the show, we tried to inject a little humour into the situation - sorry if it didn't come across that way.

I don't presume to hold sway over anyone, but if the FISM organisers pick up their game because of our show, then I think we're all better off.

I'm going to FISM Beijing, regardless. Time will tell if it lives up to the hype, but I'm going in with my eyes open and hoping for the best.

[Richard Kaufman]

The organization of FISM in Stockholm was poor. Venues too small to accomodate attendance, poor booking of acts, way too many contestants (watching a contest is not supposed to test the audience, but the performers who are competing).

They are trying to fix some things, but others may not see improvement in China. Who knows? The Chinese won't tell us anything. At at time when money is at a premium for people worldwide, who is going to spend thousands of dollars to go to broiling hot (88-degree) and humid Bejing next summer when you don't know who any of the acts are? You can spend far far less and go to the IBM, SAM, or MAGIC Live! conventions. And you know what you'll be getting (except at MAGIC Live!, but at least its secrecy is a proven part of the allure of the convention).

With less than a year to go, FISM Beijing has less than 700 registrants and less than 20 dealers. Because of the real potential for piracy (in the form of stolen tricks and/or secretly videoed lectures and shows that will later be sold), dealers don't want to deal, lecturers don't want to lecture, and performers don't want to perform. For example, Dirk Losander sold almost 50 of his wonderful floating tables in Stockholm. Do you think he's going to take a dealer table in Beijing? Why would he, when there are half a dozen dealers selling copies of his tables for a fraction of his price.

[CHRIS]

A FISM winner isnt the best they are just the best one who competed that day. David Copperfield is not a FISM winner does that mean Pilou is better than David Copperfield. In the olympics you see the best in the world competing like kobe bryant and others but I never see Copperfield, Pendragons, Maven, Mcbride, and Sigfried and Roy in the contest why is that. The ultimate prize all depends on the person and life stlye and own personal goals so no I don't see it as the ultimate prize... just my opinion.

[CraigMitchell]

"The Chinese won't tell us anything ... who is going to spend thousands of dollars to go to broiling hot (88-degree) and humid Bejing next summer when you don't know who any of the acts are? You can spend far far less and go to the IBM, SAM, or MAGIC Live! conventions."

Hi Richard

The above seems to be quite an about turn for you - your previous posts have been fairly 'protective' of FISM China and the above now questions whether people should in fact attend the event ? Has anything recently caused that to change ?

Regards

Craig

[CHRIS]

I was on the FISM website the other day and was trying to navigate the site, and most of the links don't work. There isnt one performer listed less than a year away. That is a major warning sign for me I agree with Richard. How can they ask for us to register years in advance for a convention with no talent booked. I was under the impression that the talent was part of the draw in choosing if I go to a convention or not.

[John Houdi]

I was a member in the FISM 2006 group and at the time vice president of Swedish Magic Circle who was the FISM-host.

What I write now is my personal opinions and is not the FISM organization or the Swedish Magic Circles opinion.

To organize a huge convention like FISM isn't easy.

You have to cope with the FISM organizations strict rules and business. You have to cope with TV production companies.

You have to deal with the local convention bureau that are in it for the money and holds a very tight budget.

And, finally, you have to deal with magicians from all over the world with different cultures.

You have to be a great diplomat to make all these companies, organizations and cultural differences work together.

Naturally everything is not everybodys cup of tea.
Something that is great in one country is bad in another etc, etc.

The Swedish Magic Circle, could only put in their members who worked for free or helped in other ways (300+ members scattered over Scandinavia where only a small percentage could help out).

We really tried our best but you should all know that theres a lot of politics going around an organization as big as FISM (the same politics you probably find at other magic conventions in the US and elsewhere as well).

If we could do the FISM 2006 convention again we would do some parts in another way and some parts the same.

You have to remember that a FISM group is put together mostly by amateur magicians who seldom stand on a stage.

They have to work with convention bureaus that are used to attend to corporate conventions where you just need a lavalier microphone and a good connection to a computer to show PowerPoint presentations on a screen.

They have often no, or very small, experience when it comes to technical requirements, lights and viewing abilities of a magic act. Their main concern is to balance the budget and tries to cut everything that is costly and then makes a profit (hey, its a business for them).

You have no idea how hard I (with my background as a professional performer) worked with them so that they could understand how important good sound and lights are and that there will be a need of an extremely professional crew when it came to the backstage people and light- and sound technicians.

They are used to handle professors from universities who need a headmike and a PC and not competition-nervous magicians with hot temper and great egos.

Nothing wrong with that.

The convention bureaus do events like this all the time but the magic events are extremely different.

A few month before FISM 2006 the convention bureau we hired for FISM 2006 (StoCon) held a one week long convention for 20 000 heart surgeons at the same venue we later used.

Thats a piece of cake for them but handling 3000+ magicians was something they never thought could be so difficult.

For example did not even ONE of the 20 000 surgeons break out in a fistfight or was spitting a ticket controller in their face (yes, that and other bad behavior happened at FISM 2006).

BUT; The idea with FISM is great and I think everybody will agree with that.
Look at FISM winners like Michael Ammar, Daryl and others who still use their gold medal winning in their CV.

We all look up to Fred Kaps and his three FISM wins.

Look at Lance Burton who starts his show with his gold medal winning dove act at the same time as he speaks about that he went to FISM , also called the Olympics of magic, and I was the first American who won the gold (at least he did that when I saw him last time at the Monte Carlo in Las Vegas).

Yes, Copperfield and Siegfried & Roy didnt compete in FISM but Lance did and it was a big break for him.

It is up to us how we respect a FISM gold medal and a world champion magician.
I think a more global FISM would be great. Why not really try making it into the Olympics of magic?

But it is up to us, the magicians.

FISM has been around for a long time and I know the FISM organization is trying to change FISM so it is a more modern organization. If we all give it a few years I think the idea will set and the FISM in the future will be much, much better.

Hopefully a FISM member club in the US will try to organize a FISM in the future?
You see, a magic organization has to bid for the FISM and show that they can cope with the demands. Its not that FISM themselves organize a convention in the US.

Anyway; I suggest that you all read more about FISM and FISMs goal at this URL

http://www.fism.org/AboutUs.htm

FISM has its flaws but hopefully they will be lesser and lesser in the future.

I will never personally be in a FISM group again but I do not regret I was part of FISM 2006 in Stockholm.

Even though you read some negative comments about FISM 2006 so many others really had a great time in Stockholm and thought it was one of the absolute best FISM:s, but you cant please everybody.

I really wish FISM 2009 in Beijing good luck. Unfortunately I cannot attend but I hope there will be a lot of magicians from different cultures visiting China, have fun, compete, make friends and be a part the brotherhood of magic all over the world.

/John Houdi
Former part of the FISM 2006 group in Stockholm, Sweden

[Tim Ellis]

Thanks for your insight John.
Personally I thought Stockholm was pretty good all up.
You can see the Ellis & Webster report HERE.

I believe the major difference is that most magic conventions are strictly "industry events", whereas FISM is now aiming to attract the attention of the general public and the worldwide media. If they succeed, then it can only be good for magic.

[CraigMitchell]

Hi John

Great post - thanks for sharing ...

You have identified one of the key difficulties of organising FISM. The nucleus of the organising team changes from event to event - effectively having to re-learn everything from scratch resulting in lack of continuity. This is ideally where the 'central FISM organising team' needs to remain constant and work in collaboration with the local organising committee so that there is a shared pool of resources / knowledge from which to work.

The downside of this is that it can also smack of centralist control and the continued proliferation of a small group mindset ...

How do you achieve continuity of standards while encouraging innovation ? FISM are trying to 'professionalise' themselves - but how many actual professional magic convention organisers do we have ?

And when the societies bidding to host FISM are made up of amateur members who have very little convention organising experience - or day jobs completely unrelated to organising events - you have a major problem. And as you point out - even the convention bureaus have zero clue when it comes to the crazy demands of magicians & their conventions.

One of the reasons Stan's Magic Live event is so popular ( amongst others ) is the high level that Stan sets himself and the consistency between the events he organises. Stan remains at the helm throughout.

Does anyone know what level of consistency - organisation wise - exists in the major sporting events such as the Olympics / FIFA.

I know for the Soccer World Cup you have the central control of FIFA who apppoints a local organising committee to handle the administration - but FIFA still pulls the strings and has the final say over the local hosts.

We all have high standards - but magicians notoriously have low budgets ;-)

[CHRIS]

I ask a question do we look up at Fred Kaps for his Grand Prix win OR do we look up to the Grand Prix because Fred Kaps won it? Yes there were guys like Lance, Kaps, and Richard Ross but on the flip side is Pilou, Franklin, and Ivan Necheporenko. Would we put such an importance on FISM if Kaps hadnt set the standard so high? What if he never won and the acts that did were not very good would we still feel its the ultimate prize? Are we just chasing our heros achievements or should we create a new path. Lance has to explain his award at the beginning of his show because no one knows what FISM is I don't see Oscar award winners explaining their award. Lance Burton opens his show with the doves because its a great act not because of FISM.
On a side note thank you Tim Ellis for your indepth FISM reports there are great to read. It reminds me of when I was a child and would read Bill Larsens reports.

[John Houdi]

You have identified one of the key difficulties of organising FISM. The nucleus of the organising team changes from event to event - effectively having to re-learn everything from scratch resulting in lack of continuity. This is ideally where the 'central FISM organising team' needs to remain constant and work in collaboration with the local organising committee so that there is a shared pool of resources / knowledge from which to work.

Yes, that is correct. That is why the Chinese FISM delegation contacted Christer "El Duco" Gustafsson (in charge of FISM 2006) and Gay Ljungberg (stage manager FISM 2006) and wanted their help.
Unfortunately Christer passed away earlier this month but Gay Ljungberg is, as we speak, in China to see if he can help them out. Maybe even bring the Swedish technical crew from FISM 2006 to China.
He will report later on.

One of the reasons Stan's Magic Live event is so popular ( amongst others ) is the high level that Stan sets himself and the consistency between the events he organises. Stan remains at the helm throughout.

Yes I agree. But (without putting down Stans incredible work) it is far, far easier to organize a convention where you have the absolute control and for an audience mostly from the same country.

We all have high standards - but magicians notoriously have low budgets ;-)

You are so right. Actually Swedish Magic Circle turned down an offer from StoCon that would have given us a higher profit. We wanted to put the money on the convention instead.
We are happy we did...
It is darn expensive to organize a convention as big as FISM and the small profit you might get is divided between so many...

Still I'm in favor of FISM and I think it will be great in the future.

/John Houdi
www.houdi.se

Note: The above is still strickly my personal opinion.

[John Houdi]

I ask a question do we look up at Fred Kaps for his Grand Prix win OR do we look up to the Grand Prix because Fred Kaps won it? Yes there were guys like Lance, Kaps, and Richard Ross but on the flip side is Pilou, Franklin, and Ivan Necheporenko. Would we put such an importance on FISM if Kaps hadnt set the standard so high? What if he never won and the acts that did were not very good would we still feel its the ultimate prize? Are we just chasing our heros achievements or should we create a new path.

You have a point but I can only speak for myself that winning major magic convention competition was very inspirational for me (I only won the Nordic magic championships a couple of times. Not FISM, but I entered once in Madrid 1985).
To compete and have a deadline was great for improving my magic.
And yes; I looked up to Kaps, Ross, Ammar, Daryl and Burton and also dreamed of being awarded a gold medal at FISM.

Lance has to explain his award at the beginning of his show because no one knows what FISM is I don't see Oscar award winners explaining their award.

Well, very few prizes has a status as an Oscar have.
I tell you we Europeans have no idea sometimes when we hear about some other movie prizes given out in America (or even England or Germany for that matter).

Those prizes need an explanation for us.

The same might go if you win an origami championships. We don't know what their federation is called unsless you really is in origami folding.

BUT if we all work together magicians might never have to say anything but "FISM Award winner" to the general public one day and they know what it's all about (probably not but it's a nice thought).

Lance Burton opens his show with the doves because its a great act not because of FISM.

Of course not. But I do think we all can see some pride in his eyes when he in his sghow mentions "the FISM - The olympics of magic" and that he brought home "the gold". And all the times I have seen him do that he always receives a big hand.
Remember that his tagline at the Hacienda was "World Champion Magician" and that followed him to the Monte Carlo.
That title can you only obtain from competing at a FISM.

/John Houdi

[CHRIS]

I to was a in many big magic contest I was just in the World Magic Seminar international stage contest 2008. I too dreamed of FISM so I know exactly what your saying. And you are completely correct about it giving you a deadline and forcing you to focus. Magic contest helped me get an act and for that I am grateful. Anyone who enters a magic contest has alot of courage and it takes alot of guts. I have also met some of my best friends as a result of competeting against them so Im not saying its a bad thing. This topic comes at a strange time for me because I am currently changing my focus away from contest and focusing on being myself not gearing my act to what judges want. And thats one of the big flaws we see alot of contest acts who gear there acts to win so alot of the acts look alike. John I am in no way arguing with you I love your passion for FISM I have the same thing. I would read the Bill Larsen reports and dream of winning Grand Prix but life changed and I grew up and got new goals and if it was like a foot race and there was a clear cut winner then I would say yes FISM is the ultimate prize, but its an art form something that cant really be judged. I love FISM I LOVE IT I just dont feel it can be called the ultimate prize. To learn about the history of FISM Max Maven did a wonderful job of writing the history of FISM at www.fism.org

And on a side note its Master Magician on every Lance Burton billboard and taxi in this town and has been since Monte Carlo. If World Champion was that good of a title they would have kept it.

[Tim Ellis]

On a side note thank you Tim Ellis for your indepth FISM reports there are great to read. It reminds me of when I was a child and would read Bill Larsens reports.

I did a little bit here and there, but it's really Sue-Anne Webster you need to thank for those reports!

Definitely fascinating reading.

Also, you spoke about creating magic for competitions vs magic for the public. I don't think there needs to be a difference. I have an article you may be interested in reading called HOW TO WIN A MAGIC CONTEST

[Tim Ellis]

And on a side note its Master Magician on every Lance Burton billboard and taxi in this town and has been since Monte Carlo. If World Champion was that good of a title they would have kept it.

Unfortunately the term WORLD CHAMPION has been somewhat diluted by the very fact that so many people are using it!

Here in Australia we even have one guy who calls himself Gold Award Winner of Australias Magician of the Year - an award which exists only in his mind as there is no 'Magician of the Year' award in Australia. But the public don't know that. Just another reason why FISM aims to be recognised by the public so that people will be able to tell who has a real award or not.

Back to the movie analogy, if the public had no idea what an Oscar was, imagine if you saw one film promoted as 'Oscar Winner Best Picture', and another 'Winner - Best Film Ever Made'.

[Pete Biro]

I used to enter cumpetitions until I found out YOU CAN BUY TROPHIES.

[Bill Wells]

You can spend far far less and go to the IBM, SAM, or MAGIC Live! conventions.

... or the World Magic Seminar

which will enjoy it's 32nd year next March.

Thanks for remembering us, Richard!

[Tim Ellis]

You can spend far far less and go to the IBM, SAM, or MAGIC Live! conventions.

World Magic Seminar (March 1-5) is $325.

IBM Convention (June 30-July 4) is $210 IBM Member or $275 for non members or $250 and $315 after January 1, or $275 and $350 on the day.

SAM Convention (July 15-18 2009) is $210 (Member) $250 (Non Member) & $275 (Member) $315 non member after March 1

MAGIC LIVE! (Aug 16-19) is $335.

FISM (July 26-31) is $490 for 6 days (inc 2 banquets and generally a much busier schedule)


So, considering that you should get a busier schedule, an extra day and two meals at FISM... I think the regos are all similar value.

For people in the USA travel is DEFINITELY cheaper to go to Nashville, Buffalo or Las Vegas than to Beijing, China,(though I did find return flights starting at $497 HERE ) but for us in Australia - the airfare to China is cheaper than going to the USA.

The hotels and food are cheaper in China too.

[CraigMitchell]

You can't beat Vegas' hotel prices, Tim ...

China's hotel prices are no where near as cheap as originally indicated ;-)

[Tim Ellis]

Funny story on that topic. We went to the Riviera once for a convention at the Convention Special room rates of $88 or something like that. But the hotel couldn't find my friends booking, so eventually they found him a room and had to charge him at the regular hotel rate of $66...

[smokemist]

I used to enter cumpetitions until I found out YOU CAN BUY TROPHIES.

maybe the same guys who buy their vegas shows too..

Yes, I sense an unfairness with FISM also.. Some of the winner......hmmmmmmmm.... it raises my eyebrows for sure!

I considered entering FISM, but the fishyness has diluted my drive to do it.

[CraigMitchell]

The competitions at FISM have always been an undeniable highlight of the event ... and as much as we always complain about the 'bad' acts -- these are always the msot memorable ...

Who could ever forget 'speedo' boy from Stockholm :-)

[CHRIS]

Its crazy remember Mahka Yendo with toliets on his head.

[Richard Kaufman]

I was referring to the four big conventions clustered together in the summer, which is why the World Magic Seminar was not mentioned in my original comment.

[Tim Ellis]

Apparently FISM will be releasing it's first list of booked artists this weekend.

[Pete Biro]

There is no better education in magic than to sit through all the competitions at FISM (OR ANY CONVENTION).

[CHRIS]

Today on Ellen her intro of latimer shows what people think of fism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FeXepf3L_c

[Tim Ellis]

She says "Only three Americans in history, other than me, have ever won the world championship of magic."

Isn't that what most magicians say? ;)

[CHRIS]

I was under the impression that 4 americans were the world champ lance,jonny ace, latimer, and rick merril. If we win the grand prix do we get to sell it how we want. I know only 3 sounds better but if you can put your spin on the award how you like then why even compete just say you won no one will no the difference. I am in no way putting down latimer his fism win was well deserved and his ellen appearance was great and Im happy his career is going so well he deserves it. I just found it funny were talking about fism and that was the part ellen skipped over.

[Kamal]

Just got this in my inbox:

First booked guest performers of FISM WCM2009 Beijing (from 12
countries).

Opening ceremony: All Chinese magicians

Two banquet shows: All Chinese acrobats, artists of music,
singing and dancing
Grand prix winners of the last FISM convention:
Rick Merrill - United States
Pilou - France

And:
Mac King - United States
Victor Voitko - Ukraine
Henry Evans - Argentina
Juan Tamariz - Spain
Topas - Germany
David Williamson - United States
Shoot Ogawa - Japan
Lennart Green - Sweden
Miguel Puga - Spain
Shintaro Fuijiyama - Japan
I.Ma.Gi.A - Italy
Omar Pasha - France
Jorgos - Germany
Double Fantasy - Ukraine
Peter Marvey - Switzerland
David Sousa - Portugal

[Tim Ellis]

You can see a complete listing of the artists with links to their websites HERE

or you can go HERE to see YouTube clips of all of the artists performing.

[Richard Kaufman]

A lot of good magicians in that list.