Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

[Jim Martin]

(Sorry - I'm referring to 'The Vernon Chronicles, Volumes 1 - 4.)

[Terry]

Did Larry Jennings ever weigh in on the release of these first three volumes?

Jim,

At 1989 Steven's Convention, I was lucky to have the Professor sign Vol 1&2 for me. I ran into Larry Jennings and asked him to sign them also.

He didn't look too pleased and asked me why I was asking him to sign them. I explained I wanted him to sign it as he was listed as one of the creators. He then signed both volumes for me.

I guess he realized I was not privy to any of the things that were going on.

[Jim Martin]

Thanks Terry. What Larry didn't say says a lot.

[magicalt]

If any one is interested there is one on
EBay up for sale. Sorry I dont know how to link it.

[Richard Hatch]

Here's a link:

Cervon Castle Notebooks on eBay

Started at $200, past $300 now with several days to go. Should be interesting!

[Richard Kaufman]

The seller writes, "This is an amazing book," to which I can only reply--if it's that amazing then why are you selling it?

As far as Jennings being involved in the Vernon Chronicles, I don't know the whole story, but I've heard that Larry was forced out of L&L publishing when Bruce got involved. Larry was really only involved in the publication of volume 1. He had lots more Vernon material, but he didn't feel compelled to give it away once Bruce got involved.

[James Kernen]

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
The seller writes, "This is an amazing book," to which I can only reply--if it's that amazing then why are you selling it?

At least they didn't say that it was "rare", "scarce" or "hard to find"......

[Dustin Stinett]

I wonder how many this one seller has to sell...

[Harvey Rosenthal]

I could be wrong, but from the looking at the eBay picture of the book and the camera icon off to the side, I suspect that the seller is Roger Klause who is selling off his magic library. He may have purchased the book for investment purposes to sell at a good profit...a smart idea. :cool:

[Dustin Stinett]

First, Roger is selling his library through Lance Pierce.

Second, the seller is from New York, not Texas.

Third, the items he has sold so far include a Star Trek DVD and some costume jewelry.

Its not Roger.

Dustin

[pduffie]

Hi Harvey

The camera icon is added by Ebay to any photograph that you upload via the Ebay system. In my last Ebay auction, one of my photos had the camera icon - the others did not because I linked these via my own webspace (there is no charge for photos added in that way!).

Best Wishes

Peter

[Pete Biro]

Sellers that I know bought multiple copies at first crack, as investments. Had lunch to day with one such fellow.

[magicalt]

With 3 days left its at 357 and change anyone care to guess how much it might go for. I say atleast 500.00

[Harvey Rosenthal]

Thanks Peter for the information on the EBay camera icon. Now everyone knows that I never sold or bought anything on EBay.

I was well aware that Lance Pierce was selling Roger Klause's library for him. I obviously did not look that carefully at the EBay sales post for the Cervon book to note that the seller was from New York.

When I saw the photos of all of Roger's books on EBay with the camera icon on the cover of the books, I mistakenly thought that was something Roger put on the books in his library.

I just learned something. Thanks again Peter for lesson 101 in buying and selling on EBay.

Harvey :)

[David Scollnik]

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
Sellers that I know bought multiple copies at first crack, as investments. Had lunch to day with one such fellow.

Just curious, how MANY multiple copies are these individuals buying as investments? I would have thought that there would be sounder yet more lucrative investments, but that might explain why my own lifestyle is not as extravagant as it might be.

On an entirely unrelated note, I see that page 57 of the notebooks concerns the 'Percy Find a Card'.

Is this a reference to Persi Diaconis, or some other Percy?

[Harvey Rosenthal]

Yes, Percy "Find A Card" 2/15/65 printed on page 57 and shown in Table of Contents as being on page 51 (an error) is a Persi Diaconis effect. Bruce couldn't spell worth a damn.

Harvey :( :( :(

[Dustin Stinett]

I just read my response to Mr. Rosenthal and it comes across as a bit snippy. That was not my intention at all, so my apologies if that is how it was received. I just wanted to note that the auction is not Rogers.

I may have come off that way because I am a bit snippy about the lack of availability of this book. The day I could get one was the day the last one was sold, so I was shut out. Of 500 books, how many (extra) were snapped up by smart investors?

Oh well

Dustin

[Harvey Rosenthal]

Dustin,

No offense taken.

Harvey :)

[magicalt]

Dustin I think I might know of someone who bought a couple of them and was selling them at regular price. I am not sure if he still has some or not but its worth a try. Send me an email and I will gave you his info.

[Charles Spector]

Is it possible to get L&L to limit the book to one per customer? I realize that there are ways around the limitation but the more difficult you make it the less people will buy multiple copies.

[Roger M.]

Some might feel there's a bit of "sleeze factor" attached to buying multiple copies knowing you're going to profit from your fellow magi who didn't have success getting in on the initial offering.

On the other hand it does seems rather clever to buy three copies, sell two at a profit of at least $100.00 each and wind up getting your copy for "free".

[Dustin Stinett]

I am a capitalist through and through. But what is happening here is not capitalism; its profiteering. In my experience, I have often found that the same people who participate in this activity are among those who begrudge corporations their legitimate markups and margins.

Dustin

[Jonathan Townsend]

So when one does it, it's just good business sense but when someone else does it - it's 'profiteering' (as if such are truly necessary items in a time of scarcity) - or do we have another definition of magical thinking: sanctioned hypocrisy.

Ayn Rand would be impressed.

[Roger M.]

I don't think my last post was clear.
I include myself in the reference to "some might feel there's a bit of a sleeze factor".
Perhaps I just should have said it clearly rather than try to soft pedal my statement and appear polite.

I DO happen to feel that there's "sleeze factor" present when somebody purchases multiple copies of an extremely short-run magic book with the sole intent of selling to fellow magi at a profit at a later date.

The purchaser of multiple volumes could also be construed as being rather clever in an attempt to own a copy of the book for "free", especially as it appears that all who did purchase multiple copies will not only own their own volumes for free, but apparently will make a tidy sum off their fellow magi to boot.

I too am a capitalist through and through, but in this case, the number of (presumably rather well off) folks who apparently HAVE bought multiple copies with the sole intent of profiteering leaves somewhat of a dirty taste in my mouth.

Oh well, gotta be quicker to the L&L website next time, before all the opportunists get all the candy.......and you know they'll all be back much quicker and with hands full of more cash for the next volume.

[Terry]

This is funny.

L&L advertises the book for sale.

Magic boards light up with questions as to value received at $200.

Magic board posters procrastinate until the book is sold out.

NOW, the demand for said book heats up and when individuals provide a copy on a free market service, i.e. EBay, magic boards light up with questions as to someones values.

If you whiny, bitchy lazy people had gotten off your backsides and ordered the book at first offer, you wouldn't be whining & bitching now.

Don't like it, don't bid on it. It's not your book to begin with, so what have you got to gripe about?

[Roger M.]

You presume to know why people didn't (or couldn't) pick up the book from L&L before it sold out.

Of course you couldn't know why, which leaves your post lacking somewhat in merit.

Also, the "whiny, bitchy lazy people" part of your post is perhaps a bit over the top, and not really in keeping with the overall tone of this thread.

[Dustin Stinett]

I am not whining nor am I bitching. In fact, I believe I said, Oh well (the rest of the phrase being Im S-O-L).

I never questioned its value.

I didnt order it early because I simply could not afford it right away.

By the time I could afford it, literally the day it sold out, I was too latedue in large part to the profiteers who helped create (artificially to some degree) the demand.

I do not blame L&L nor would I ever expect them to police future volume sales by limiting the number of copies sold to their buyers. (How is one to know if someone well off doesnt actually want to make giftsalbeit extravagant giftsof the book? If this was a year agowhen I was a bit more flush than I am this yearI might have bought two copies with the second going to my friend and fan.)

I have accepted the fact that I will never own any of them now because I do not have Volume 1.

I will survive without them.

L&L will survive without me.

Life is good.

[Steve Bryant]

Given the questionable detail of some notebooks, such as the Daley Notebooks, "procrastination" made sense until someone trustworthy posted some comments as to the value of the material. As I had just purchased a new computer, new office furniture, a house full of new flooring, and all the usual Christmas gifts, $200 for a book of card tricks seemed over the top. It wasn't until Richard Kaufman posted his review that I decided to get moving on it, and just in time. The book was sold out before I received my copy. Curiously, it was copy number 34, so I have no idea how Louis numbered these. (By the way, I rather enjoy the Daley Notebooks, but wouldn't have for $200.)

[George Guerra]

I recall when I got the e-mail announcement from L&l on the book, I immediately responded with an online purchase that same day, all based on Cervon's reputation (and I own several of his books), but was surprised it took about a month, I think, to sell out. Funny, when I saw that the book was still available a week after I bought my copy, I thought I may have made a bad purchase...ironic.

So...the way I kind of see it..even, if only one customer per book had been the policy, I am certain there are more than 500 magic enthusiasts who would be quite upset with having missed out on this great book and, with only one copy per person, I doubt anyone would be too willing to sell their only copy. So, at least now there is a secondary market for that second, though more expensive, chance to own this book. I wouldn't be surprised that even if the book sold on ebay for $400-500, the buyer may still make a even bigger profit in the future as the demand grows.

Personally, I am glad I jumped soon...glad I always keep a reserve magic fund on hand for "emergencies".

[PickaCard]

Originally posted by Steve Bryant:
It wasn't until Richard Kaufman posted his review that I decided to get moving on it, and just in time. The book was sold out before I received my copy. Curiously, it was copy number 34, so I have no idea how Louis numbered these.

I'm happy to own a copy, but I was a little annoyed to have ordered a copy of the book 24 hours after it went up for sale and ended up with number 401.

Not only have that, but the $200 book was not even wrapped in plastic and was actually packaged with dirtied old news papers that stained the side pages.

Youre not the only one who wonders what Louis was thinking

[George Guerra]

I wouldn't be surprised that the books were already boxed and ready to ship and ramdomly shipped as the orders were filled with no attention to the serial numbering. However, I would sure like to get the remaining volumes to match the one I got in my copy (#168 - I also placed my order within a few hours after email announcement was sent)

[Hannes Freytag]

a friend of mine and i, both from Germany, we both wanted the book. So we placed a order together in order to save shipping costs (and we also ordered a different book to take benefit from the L&L: order three items and get 10% discount). The book should be send to my address, the billing address was my friends.
This was on December 13th. We received a confirmation and waited for the books - we choose surface mail because of the low shipping costs and we had no problem to wait.
The book was sold out on January 3rd i guess. Several people i know placed an order between December 13th and January 3rd.
On January 8th i received the following mail:

Hi,
We are sending only 1 copy of Cervon Notebook. This book is at high demand and very limited quantities.
Thank you for your patience.

Me and the friend of mine wrote several mails and explained the situation, we even called the office. We could prove the situation because of our different addresses. Nothing. We two received only one book.
I think this is really very worse customer treatment!
Nowhere on the homepage or during the ordering process it was stated that they will only send one book per address. If they decided to do so, they had 20 days to inform us about this before the book sold out. Nothing. And they needed nearly a month to get the order to the post office. Thats not what i call good service.
I guess we both and several friends here in Germany who we told what happened will no longer buy at L&L Publishing.
(oh and guess what, we didn't receive the 10% discount)
thats the story about ordering multiple copies of the cervon notebooks.
Hannes

[Jeff Pierce Magic]

I ordered mine a week after the announcement and received #180 not shrinkwrapped. Talso ordered another one the day before they announced that they were sold out. It came shrinkwrapped,and since I won't open it I'm calling it #1. LOL!

Jeff

[Terry]

Blair M.
posted 02-07-2008 02:38 PM
I don't think my last post was clear.
I include myself in the reference to "some might feel there's a bit of a sleeze factor".
Perhaps I just should have said it clearly rather than try to soft pedal my statement and appear polite.

I DO happen to feel that there's "sleeze factor" present when somebody purchases multiple copies of an extremely short-run magic book with the sole intent of selling to fellow magi at a profit at a later date.

The purchaser of multiple volumes could also be construed as being rather clever in an attempt to own a copy of the book for "free", especially as it appears that all who did purchase multiple copies will not only own their own volumes for free, but apparently will make a tidy sum off their fellow magi to boot.

Blair M
posted 02-07-2008 05:24 PM
Of course you couldn't know why, which leaves your post lacking somewhat in merit.

Also, the "whiny, bitchy lazy people" part of your post is perhaps a bit over the top, and not really in keeping with the overall tone of this thread.

If you read your 1st post above, you are questioning someone's values in accusing them of using secondary sales to get their book for free. You directly accuse them of a sleaze factor.

This being said without firsthand knowledge, I would classify that as whiny and/or bitchy.

Re without merit - Considering your post, I guess you would be an expert on the subject.

[Steve Bryant]

Don't like it, don't bid on it. It's not your book to begin with, so what have you got to gripe about?

Whether it's buying up a limited edition magic book or tickets to a concert or sporting event, it p*sses me off when scalpers do that, as it ultimately deprives some customer somewhere of purchasing the item for a fair price. Scalpers are lowlife scum. That's what we have to gripe about.

[Jonathan Townsend]

Originally posted by Steve Bryant:
...it p*sses me off when scalpers do that, as it ultimately deprives some customer somewhere of purchasing the item for a fair price. Scalpers are lowlife scum. That's what we have to gripe about.

scalpers? they take scalps like the way the French taught some indians? really?

deprives? how so?

fair price? - that's determined by a free market of supply/demand right?

To Steve: look at what your statements presuppose - those beliefs - are they what you really believe to be sensible and just?

agreed - there's lots to gripe about - when what you want to do is gripe rather than address or offer solutions to what you see as a problem.

guess someone didn't get to see Hannah Montana either huh? :D

[Roger M.]

Terry, thanks for your contributions to the thread.
You've offered some fresh perspective on the issue.

The ability of some folks to see the good in situations like this is encouraging.

[Jim Patton]

Originally posted by Harvey Rosenthal:
Yes, Percy "Find A Card" 2/15/65 printed on page 57 and shown in Table of Contents as being on page 51 (an error) is a Persi Diaconis effect. Bruce couldn't spell worth a damn.

Harvey :( :( :(

The TYPED table of contents as prepared by Linda,shows this as being on p. 57....just where it should be; in Bruce's HAND WRITTEN table of contents it is listed as being on p. 51 and in fact, in the original notebook' IS on p. 51.
Bruce was, self admittedly, occasionally sub-par in his spelling, an innocuous shortcoming that is commonly forgiven among readers of anothers personal notes....... JP

[Robert Newman]

Originally posted by Terry:
This is funny.

L&L advertises the book for sale.

Magic boards light up with questions as to value received at $200.

Magic board posters procrastinate until the book is sold out.

NOW, the demand for said book heats up and when individuals provide a copy on a free market service, i.e. EBay, magic boards light up with questions as to someones values.

If you whiny, bitchy lazy people had gotten off your backsides and ordered the book at first offer, you wouldn't be whining & bitching now.

Don't like it, don't bid on it. It's not your book to begin with, so what have you got to gripe about?

Now here is a member who *truly* understands capitalism and realizes that in limited edition magic books, or anything else for that matter, it's he/she who gets there firstus with the mostus.
The game is indeed, and always will be, to the swiftest.
Carpe Limited Editions!

[magicalt]

If any one is interested the copy on Ebay went for a little over 400.00.