No-Egg-Bag Egg Bag

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Bob Farmer
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No-Egg-Bag Egg Bag

Postby Bob Farmer » October 1st, 2022, 7:32 pm

I am looking for references for this approach.

Let's say you have a bag, a Crown Royale bag. In the bag you have a small ball.

With your left hand you grip the bag at its opening, fingers inside, thumb outside.

With your right hand, you grip the bottom of the bag and the ball and invert the bag over your left hand letting the ball drop into your left fingers. Apparently, you are showing the bag is empty.

The left fingers hide the ball as they grip the top of the bag. The right hand lets go and the left hand turns palm down so the mouth of the bag is upwards.

The right hand grips the opposite side of the opening and the two hands spread opening the bag up.

The spectator places his hand in the bag and confirms it is empty. He removes his hand and you let the ball drop into the bag.

This procedure seems obvious: has anyone else worked along these lines?

Bob Farmer
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Re: No-Egg-Bag Egg Bag

Postby Bob Farmer » October 3rd, 2022, 6:17 am

I see that given the number of views this topic has had with no replies, this may be a new idea.

Tom Moore
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Re: No-Egg-Bag Egg Bag

Postby Tom Moore » October 3rd, 2022, 7:30 am

I'm not sure it's magic - the reason an egg bag works is because an egg is to big (and fragile) to palm and that the bag and your hands can be cleanly shown empty at the same time.
Producing a smaller, easily palmable object using your hand and a bag neither of which have been shown conclusively to be empty doesn't feel like much of a magic trick to me.
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Bob Farmer
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Re: No-Egg-Bag Egg Bag

Postby Bob Farmer » October 3rd, 2022, 7:13 pm

I agree Tom, however, I'm using the idea in a completely different context, which does not involve the usual Egg Bag routine.

Tom Moore
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Re: No-Egg-Bag Egg Bag

Postby Tom Moore » October 4th, 2022, 5:06 am

I'm not sure you are using it in a different context and i'm still certain what you're describing probably isn't magical.

But lets flip the question around - when there are existing methods for doing what you're trying to do what advantage does your method have over those and how does that weigh against the disadvantages. From the description you have given the only advantage i can see is that this could be done as a genuine improv performance but it has the disadvantage of being much less open and clean than other methods.

With existing egg bag technologies yes you have to explain why you've got this weird little bag with you (but there's lots of patter's that seem to do that) but you can then make objects appear and vanish within it and most routines involve getting spectators to "examine" the bag and or cleanly demonstrating that it is unmistakably empty. I don't doubt there might be some highly specific scenario where your proposed method might work but it sounds akin to you having discovered a different way to achieve valve decompression on a steam engine whilst the rest of the world is using electric cars?
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Bob Farmer
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Re: No-Egg-Bag Egg Bag

Postby Bob Farmer » October 4th, 2022, 11:39 am

Tom I'm just removing a ball from a bag for a Chop Cup routine so the additional complication of an Egg Bag is not necessary.

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Re: No-Egg-Bag Egg Bag

Postby Tom Moore » October 4th, 2022, 12:05 pm

With respect; 99% of magic principles are using more "complications" & contractions than any normal person would think necessary so i wouldn't be so quick to throw out a tried and tested method in this scenario.
Chop cup is closeup of which i have almost no experience so others can speak to whether this move or performance concept exists already. If "the move" is literally a 2 second beat as part of a larger chop cup routine then it may well work as magic but i would still be wary of the movements as described seeming more like "magicians moves" and you doing too much far too much to prove its just an ordinary empty bag.

Common sense would be that you upturn the bag, tip the cup (and any other contents) out onto the table then discard the bag thus proving that the bag is empty because everyone has just seen you empty it in a move sequence that is much more natural and unsuspicious than deliberately flipping and turning the bag with both hands. If on the other hand you want to make a big show of the bag being empty, having a spectator check it etc then it would be madness not to use egg bag technology as it would enable you to be much more open and fair with your demonstration that the bag is empty. Other than being able to say you're not using an egg bag I'm still struggling to see what the advantage of the proposed methodology is in any meaningful performance context?
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

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Bob Farmer
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Re: No-Egg-Bag Egg Bag

Postby Bob Farmer » October 4th, 2022, 1:02 pm

Tom, you will have to wait until I publish the routine to make the final judgment. Yes, turning the bag upside down and letting a ball roll out, and then discarding the bag, certainly implies the bag is empty and that's what I'm going for.

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Re: No-Egg-Bag Egg Bag

Postby Curtis Kam » October 4th, 2022, 6:58 pm

Bob, I do think what you’ve described is all that moment requires. The current method of simply holding the ball through the bag is often enough to surprise the audience.

As to precedents, perhaps Milt Kort’s no-bag egg Bag has addresses this? Not sure, since the Kort routine involved a handkerchief instead of a bag.


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Tom Stone
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Re: No-Egg-Bag Egg Bag

Postby Tom Stone » October 4th, 2022, 10:39 pm

Bob Farmer wrote:I am looking for references for this approach.
(SNIP)
This procedure seems obvious: has anyone else worked along these lines?

I'm not sure, but I think it might be worth checking Richard Osterlind's "The Challenge Glass of Water Production" from Three Miracle Routines (1986).

Tarotist
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Re: No-Egg-Bag Egg Bag

Postby Tarotist » October 4th, 2022, 10:50 pm

I put together quite a good egg bag routine. It is one of the few routines out there where you don't get anyone up from the audience and I actually prefer it that way. I have a great finish with it that has been in print for decades in the Bruce Elliott book Classic Secrets of Magic but for some odd reason I have never seen a single person doing it. That is the Roy Benson finish. The only thing I have added to it is something which Peter Marucci wrote up in the Linking Ring where you remove a plastic duck at the finish. One of the few things I have ever used from a magic magazine!

Bob Farmer
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Re: No-Egg-Bag Egg Bag

Postby Bob Farmer » October 5th, 2022, 10:04 am

Thanks guys. Very useful.

Bob Farmer
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Re: No-Egg-Bag Egg Bag

Postby Bob Farmer » October 5th, 2022, 10:42 am

Mark is right: the Roy Benson finale is fantastic. I am using some of the same ideas in the Chop Cup routine.


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