Haptic illusion?

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Dan LeFay
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Haptic illusion?

Postby Dan LeFay » July 7th, 2019, 9:55 am

Hello all,

Very difficult to describe what I am looking for. There seems to be an illusion which is based on touch. I've never seen it in real live, only read about it once (and forgot where I read it).
The performer places a box on a table which (supposedly) can be opened from the front, and is also accessible from the side (or from above, I am not sure) an object is shown to the audience, but not to a spectator and placed inside of the box. The spectator is then asked to touch the object inside of the box (without seeing it) and describe it. Amazingly he describes something very different from what the audience saw going into the box. This is repeated with different objects.

It seemed to be produced by someone. A famous performer has used it in his shows (Derren Brown?). It was rather expensive. The box could be taken apart for easy traveling.

Who can help me out naming/finding this particular illusion? I am trying to add such a thing in a corporate lecture that I do on a regular base and I have to fly with it.

Thanks in advance,
Dan LeFay
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 7th, 2019, 12:12 pm

This was created by the German dealer Hakan Varol:
https://www.hakan-varol.de/shop-english ... on-box.php
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Zig Zagger
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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Zig Zagger » July 7th, 2019, 2:02 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:This was created by the German dealer Hakan Varol:
https://www.hakan-varol.de/shop-english ... on-box.php


Not quite the original! In fact, it was created by the German magician, inventor and dealer Erich Hammann-BORETTI, and you should get it from him. He published this idea with a great routine back in 1995.
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Joe Lyons
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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Joe Lyons » July 7th, 2019, 3:49 pm

Isn’t this the effect Harry Keaton just used to fool Penn And Teller on the Inventors segment?

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Brad Jeffers
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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Brad Jeffers » July 8th, 2019, 4:02 am

It would appear so.
HERE is a link to Harry Keaton performing "his invention".

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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Joe Lyons » July 8th, 2019, 7:41 am

Brad Jeffers wrote: "his invention".


Yes, exactly. So who did invent it?
And I’m surprised it made it pass Teller if it’s been around for a quarter century, though they do a great job of catching as much as they do.

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Doug Thornton
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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Doug Thornton » July 8th, 2019, 10:31 am

Boretti version...via Martin's Magic, though not in stock...

https://www.martinsmagic.com/allmagic/s ... y-boretti/

"...which was invented by T.S. Ransom c. 1954 and was featured in The New Phoenix, July 23rd, 1954."

Boretti improved on it.

Hakan Varol states "The Emotion Box was developed in cooperation with Harry Keaton."

The site which Richard posted:

https://www.hakan-varol.de/shop-english ... on-box.php

And yes, Dan, Derren Brown did present this on one of his TV specials and tours.
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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Joe Lyons » July 8th, 2019, 11:08 am

Good catch Doug. This dates it at 2009.

The effect in The New Phoenix that Borretti improved was “No Bop (Pop?) Balloon” by TS Ransom.

Zig Zagger, where did Borretti publish this?
Thanks,
Joe

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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Joe Lyons » July 8th, 2019, 12:06 pm

Just to muddy the waters, Luca Volpe has a version of this

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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Bill Mullins » July 8th, 2019, 1:47 pm

Doug Thornton wrote:Boretti version...via Martin's Magic, though not in stock...

https://www.martinsmagic.com/allmagic/s ... y-boretti/

"...which was invented by T.S. Ransom c. 1954 and was featured in The New Phoenix, July 23rd, 1954."

Boretti improved on it.



Martin's Magic is saying that Boretti improved on Ransom's balloon penetration, and that he also invented the Sensor Box. I don't believe it is saying that the Sensor Box is an improvement of the balloon penetration.

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Zig Zagger
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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Zig Zagger » July 8th, 2019, 2:42 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:
Doug Thornton wrote:Boretti version...via Martin's Magic, though not in stock...

https://www.martinsmagic.com/allmagic/s ... y-boretti/

"...which was invented by T.S. Ransom c. 1954 and was featured in The New Phoenix, July 23rd, 1954."

Boretti improved on it.



Martin's Magic is saying that Boretti improved on Ransom's balloon penetration, and that he also invented the Sensor Box. I don't believe it is saying that the Sensor Box is an improvement of the balloon penetration.

Exactly, Bill. The Ransom reference refers to "Boretti’s Improved Balloon Penetration" and has nothing to do with the Sensor Box!
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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Zig Zagger » July 8th, 2019, 2:59 pm

Joe Lyons wrote:Good catch Doug. This dates it at 2009.

The effect in The New Phoenix that Borretti improved was “No Bop (Pop?) Balloon” by TS Ransom.

Zig Zagger, where did Borretti publish this?
Thanks,
Joe


Joe, Boretti published the Sensor Box first in his booklet "And so on" in 1995. He was inspired, as he writes, by an unnamed magician friend who brought him such a box which was used only for the change of a giant playing card. Boretti thought he could do better and came up with a three-part routine. (He excels at creating entertaining routines with simple or standard props, both for kids and adults.) Maybe he also altered the box considerably for that, but I don't know about that.

The box is still available in Boretti's online shop, in the version produced for him by Future Magic and for a reasonable price: https://boretti-shop.info/Gefuehlsbox-ORIGINAL-Boretti

In the red text, Boretti bitterly complains about another dealer having stolen his invention and still selling it, even claiming it as his own creation.

You can watch a performance (partly) of Boretti's box here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awRiRs5SHrw
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Zig Zagger
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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Zig Zagger » July 8th, 2019, 3:10 pm

And I’m surprised it made it pass Teller if it’s been around for a quarter century, though they do a great job of catching as much as they do.

Guess what, there's actually a lot of magic happening outside the U.S. that goes quite unnoticed here! ;)

Just to muddy the waters, Luca Volpe has a version of this

I am sure the Luca Volpe link just shows the Varol/Keaton version. Nothing original there.

In my view, it is rather safe to say that
a) the Box and the routine were originally created by Boretti
b) the Varol/Keaton version would likely not exist without Boretti's prior invention
c) the Varol/Keaton box is a vast improvement and uses (a) different method(s)
d) Harry Keaton has created a wonderful and much more surprising routine.
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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Joe Lyons » July 8th, 2019, 3:30 pm

Zig Zagger wrote:
And I’m surprised it made it pass Teller if it’s been around for a quarter century, though they do a great job of catching as much as they do.

Guess what, there's actually a lot of magic happening outside the U.S. that goes quite unnoticed here! ;)


I understand, and my own recent experience with Google Translate has reminded me of my international illiteracy.

Thanks for the elucidation Zig Zagger!

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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Zig Zagger » July 8th, 2019, 3:37 pm

Haha, my pleasure, Joe! :)
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 8th, 2019, 4:03 pm

Yes, Tom Ransom of Toronto invented the Needle Through Balloon. No tape method.
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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Dan LeFay » July 8th, 2019, 6:04 pm

Thank you guys. It was indeed the white box (Varol) that I was looking for. Of course I also checked its predecessor, the one that Boretti offers. But I think that one does not offer the collapsible features, and it does not look like anything I would present in my corporate lecture. So there goes my attempt to only go for an original... :?

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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Bill Mullins » July 8th, 2019, 9:18 pm

Does the box enable the objects to be switched?

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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Zig Zagger » July 9th, 2019, 12:55 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:Does the box enable the objects to be switched?

I do own the original Boretti Box. It has a simply sneaky way of hiding and switching objects as long as these are not too bulky. Collapsible items will also work.
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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Zig Zagger » July 18th, 2019, 4:12 pm

For those of you who are able to read German:

I have posted an exclusive interview with Harry Keaton on his Box and his experience at "Penn&Teller: Fool Us" on my magic blog:
https://zzzauber.wordpress.com/
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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Dan LeFay » July 19th, 2019, 7:02 pm

Ha, what a coincidence, that the moment I posted my original question, the box seemed to have been used in Fool Us and has become much in demand. It was a rather obscure effect when I first noticed it, about a year ago. I let it go for now. :lol:

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Re: Haptic illusion?

Postby Zig Zagger » July 19th, 2019, 7:26 pm

Good point. But don't forget that the box is incredibly versatile, so I guess you could come up with many other premises and routines, especially for corporate needs.

But if you pass it, there are of course a lot of other great and much less seen tricks out there, like linking heavy metal rings with one another or floating small tables under a cloth... ;)
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