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Multum im Parvo

Posted: July 4th, 2019, 2:59 am
by John Lovick
All the Multum im Parvo sets I've seen look plastic, cheap, ugly, undeceptive, or a combination of. I'm thinking of trying to fashion or manufacture a decent set, but thought I'd ask if nice sets exist that I might be able to find or purchase. Or has anyone ever made their own, and has advice to offer?

Thanks.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: July 4th, 2019, 7:14 am
by Tom Moore
We looked at doing it about 10 years ago but couldn't find a market to justify it. The maths for calculating the sizes is tricky even when you use simple cylindrical shapes (which is why every version so far uses simple shaped tumblers) but if you want a more natural looking glass you have to do some serious maths.

Our intention was to devise one that had recognisable and /different/ style glasses for each size (a shot glass, a wine glass, a soda glass, a beer glass, a pint glass & a pitcher) so that the props seemed more naturalistic but with hindsight that was probably what made the project too complicated (and thus expensive) to get off the ground for us.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: July 19th, 2020, 9:36 pm
by David Nethery

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: July 19th, 2020, 10:23 pm
by Jack Shalom
I remember this effect from the magic catalogues. Does the effect go from big to small, or small to big? Or neither?

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: July 20th, 2020, 11:29 am
by Kent Gunn
Did no one take Latin in high school?

There's no im in Multum in Parvo.

Oh, wait, nobody cares about stuff like this. I'll break out some unedited magic books I have. They'll have many more egregious errors.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: July 20th, 2020, 4:30 pm
by Tom Stone
Jack Shalom wrote:I remember this effect from the magic catalogues. Does the effect go from big to small, or small to big? Or neither?

There's some info and a demo here:
https://www.martinsmagic.com/allmagic/s ... isto-huis/

And this is mine and my group's take on it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EReWswmiBhc

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: July 20th, 2020, 10:47 pm
by Richard Kaufman
Kent, what's Latin?

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: July 20th, 2020, 11:31 pm
by Joe Lyons
Richard Kaufman wrote:Kent, what's Latin?

Duh! It’s an area in Paris
.
Evidently named after a language popular in the Middle Ages.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: July 24th, 2020, 7:15 pm
by Kent Gunn
Yes, there is a famous fourth in Paris.

Nope, Latin had long devolved and was not spoken outside of churches by the middle ages.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: July 24th, 2020, 8:02 pm
by I.M. Magician
John Lovick wrote:All the Multum im Parvo sets I've seen look plastic, cheap, ugly, undeceptive, or a combination of. I'm thinking of trying to fashion or manufacture a decent set, but thought I'd ask if nice sets exist that I might be able to find or purchase. Or has anyone ever made their own, and has advice to offer?

Thanks.


I have seen quite a few versions come and go over half a century. They have evolved in some cases into an improved version but I have never seen one I would buy. Nowadays, I no longer desire or purchase parlor/stage props so don’t have an interest in owning a set BUT...if a fantastic set was put on the market at a fair price, I may not be able to resist. I always liked the idea of Multum in Parvo and find it to be a believable illusion.

It would most likely be an expensive outing to design and manufacture a really worthwhile set. I mean really expensive!

Perhaps the way to go is to step out of the box so to speak and come up with a set of not drinking glasses but instead, something like drink pitchers or an object which is not necessarily designed to hold and pour liquids.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: July 24th, 2020, 9:43 pm
by Joe Lyons
Kent Gunn wrote:Yes, there is a famous fourth in Paris.

Nope, Latin had long devolved and was not spoken outside of churches by the middle ages.


True, except in the fourth.

Cogito ergo sum iniuriam.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: July 25th, 2020, 7:10 am
by Kent Gunn
Joe,

Technically, perhaps you're wrong. I am, however, most certainly a jerk on a regular basis.

Your sense of humor shines through my clouds of trivial nonsense.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: July 25th, 2020, 7:29 am
by Q. Kumber
About six months ago I sold two sets similar to the photo above. These had a back ring around each glass to disguise the obvious. I believe the ones I sold came from Max Andrews' Vampire Magic (1950's).

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: July 25th, 2020, 1:30 pm
by Joe Lyons
Kent Gunn wrote:Your sense of humor shines through my clouds of trivial nonsense.


Kent,
It could be quarantine fatigue, but that sounds as poetic as anything conceived on the Left Bank.
:D

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: July 28th, 2020, 12:12 am
by Spellbinder
In our Dollar Store Magic section of The Magic Nook, you'll find an e-Book on DIY Milk Pitcher which also contains other projects made from the same materials, including a set of Multum in Parvo glasses (spelled correctly). You make them yourself from Dollar Store plastic glasses, so they aren't ritzy, but the price is right.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 4th, 2020, 2:24 am
by MickNZ
Multum In Parvo | Definition of Multum In Parvo by Merriam-Webster
mul·​tum in par·​vo | \ ˌmu̇l-tu̇m-in-ˈpär-vō , -ˈpär -wō \. Definition of multum in parvo. : much in a little space

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 4th, 2020, 6:44 pm
by Richard Hatch
Here's Stephen Fry performing it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToZ4Z9qlb4k

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 4th, 2020, 8:43 pm
by Richard Kaufman
Thanks, Richard. I've never seen it performed before. It's quite startling!

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 4th, 2020, 8:49 pm
by Brad Henderson
Henning did it on his House of Magic special. Loved that special. Bought a set of the flying bird cage illusion because of it!

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 5th, 2020, 7:03 am
by MagicbyAlfred
I would love to get my hands on a well-made set. It would be hard to beat for a stand-up show. This thread kind of made me feel a bit nostalgic. The Magic Milk Pitcher was my first acquisition in magic, at age 6, and a centerpiece of my shows at parents'/relatives' parties back then.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 5th, 2020, 10:13 am
by erdnasephile
I wonder if Steve Dick has ever made a set. He makes some other top quality glass gimmicks. James Riser is another person who comes to mind when it comes to glass expertise. Vic Trabucco is also a world renowned glass expert (although I think his primary expertise is in crystal art).

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 5th, 2020, 11:59 am
by Brad Henderson
I own a set. I think plastic is the way to go.

If you intend to perform this outside your house you need something that will withstand travel. Thin glass won’t work. Imagine the weight of a heavy glass set! You would need a well padded and sturdy case - which adds additional weight.

Plus, one table bump too many and - crunch.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 5th, 2020, 2:07 pm
by Tom Moore
Watch this space.... we will be making a very relevant announcement in about a weeks time!

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 5th, 2020, 2:08 pm
by Richard Kaufman
The set Stephen Frye uses is 5 glasses, not the 4 that are currently sold. I think 5 is much better.
Also, his largest container (the pitcher) appears much larger than the 6.75 inches of the currently sold plastic versions.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 5th, 2020, 2:26 pm
by AJM
I suspect the QI elves sourced the set used by Stephen Fry from either the Davenports or Magic Circle archives.

Andrew

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 5th, 2020, 3:05 pm
by Brad Jeffers
Richard Kaufman wrote:The set Stephen Frye uses is 5 glasses, not the 4 that are currently sold. I think 5 is much better.
That is a Mephisto-Huis set.
Andy Martin will have one up for auction on the 19th of this month.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 5th, 2020, 4:25 pm
by Richard Kaufman
Who is Andy Martin and where does he auction?

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 5th, 2020, 5:51 pm
by Brad Jeffers

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 5th, 2020, 7:55 pm
by Tom Stone
AJM wrote:I suspect the QI elves sourced the set used by Stephen Fry from either the Davenports or Magic Circle archives.

Scott Penrose was magic consultant for Stephen Fry's magic bits that season of QI.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 5th, 2020, 8:16 pm
by Ian Kendall
I saw Faye Presto perform this at a Magic Circle show in the Player's Theatre years ago. It was fun to see, but I can't help thinking it's a fairly bulky set of props to carry around for a couple of minutes of material...

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 6th, 2020, 10:16 am
by martinsmagic
Hi Johnathan,

Apart from purely historical reasons, I think the last thing you would want to find is an early version of this effect based on the F.I.S.M. 1st place prize for invention in 1948 awarded to Burtini. Although that version based on Benson Dulay's invention "Multun in Parvo" was an amazing effect, the method was certainly inferior to the method created by Malaysian Magician and Inventor, Tan Hock Chuan. Which is the method used in all of the videos you see today including this Mephisto-Huis version.

The F.I.S.M. award method required special glasses, tray and table and is detailed in The Magic Wand Vol 35., December 1946, and is much more complex than Tan Hock Chuan's beautifully clean method. And from what I understand Tan Hock Chuan actually invented his method earlier than Benson Dulay who gets the credit for the invention.

Andy

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 6th, 2020, 11:14 am
by Richard Kaufman
Oops, sorry Andy. Jonathan asked me to delete his post and I did it before reading yours.
For anyone confused by Andy's post, Jonathan brought up the fact that the routine won an award at an early FISM.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 6th, 2020, 11:17 am
by martinsmagic
Hi Richard,

Serves me right for making my very first post ever on the Genii Forum :)

Andy

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 8th, 2020, 9:32 pm
by Spellbinder
The use of milk creates a murky performance with many types of plastic "glasses." Adding some red (strawberry) coloring helps a bit, but even better is to begin by using a deep red wine and start by filling the small glass with the deep red liquid from a regular wine bottle. Perform the trick wearing a light colored costume so the red liquid can be seen against a bright background.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 8th, 2020, 10:39 pm
by Jonathan Townsend
Andy, welcome to the forum. If Martin's Magic is your site - wow! :) That's a fine page on the Multum effect and history.

John Lovick asked about how to make the props look more mundane, some guidance for finding a good set or making new ones. Any ideas?

@Spellbinder (et al) would the trick work if you started with a shotglass of water and added a packet of that red "Kool-Aid" powder to start the routine?

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 9th, 2020, 1:15 pm
by martinsmagic
Jonathan Townsend wrote:Andy, welcome to the forum. If Martin's Magic is your site - wow! :) That's a fine page on the Multum effect and history.
Thanks Jonathan - I've been working on Martin's Magic for 20 years now (since October 2000), that is even before the Genii Forum began! I changed my focus about 3 years ago and decided to add more content, and particularly historical content and adverts when I can. As you have noted on the Multum effect.

My most recent addition is adding Speed Demos for some of the props that I can find no other videos of or if they do exist the production quality is not very good. Of course just because I can't find videos of them doesn't mean they don't exist as I quickly found with Tom Stone's excellent version of the Multum effect in the bar (which is how I found this thread), and Stephen Fry's version too. With my "Speed Demos" I try to strip away all the fluff and just focus on the prop and I say if you like the "Speed Demo" imagine what a real performance would be like :)

My site is and always has been about enjoying clever and interesting props and effects and recognizing the amazing craftsmen and inventors who have created these wonders, as so often they are left unsung. I try to find representative examples from as many sources as possible, but stick to the last 50 or so years for the most part to keep the scope manageable. There seem to be more collectors and/or literature on the Thayer's and Okito's and earlier creations so the last 50 years appeals to me. It doesn't seem to matter how many effects I add, there are always plenty I'm missing which should keep me going for a few decades more.

Since adding the historical pieces I have had a lot more enjoyment in finding effects, even if the effect itself is kind of weak, the historical aspects are often not. Of course the time it takes me to add new effects has taken a big hit, but I'm in no rush and am enjoying the ride.

Jonathan Townsend wrote: John Lovick asked about how to make the props look more mundane, some guidance for finding a good set or making new ones. Any ideas?
Sadly I can't help here because I fell in the love with the Mephisto set when I was 16 and that has always been the one I have looked for. I only recently picked up this set so that I could add better photos and do the Speed Demo. One of the things that fascinates me about magic is how there is pretty much no size fits all, and we all are looking for something a little different. Which of course keeps the whole field very interesting, if a little contentious at times :)

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 15th, 2020, 12:15 am
by Spellbinder
Jonathan Townsend wrote: @Spellbinder (et al) would the trick work if you started with a shotglass of water and added a packet of that red "Kool-Aid" powder to start the routine?


The Kool-Aid idea is a good one. I would also include a spoon to stir it into the first water glass, and a broken off spoon handle to pretend to continue to stir it in the gimmicked glasses. The only problem you might run into with the Kool-Aid is possible residue left behind in the glasses as they are emptied. With wine, you wouldn't have that problem.

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 15th, 2020, 6:31 am
by AJM
Tom Moore wrote:Watch this space.... we will be making a very relevant announcement in about a weeks time!


And???

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 15th, 2020, 6:34 am
by AJM
Brad Jeffers wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:The set Stephen Frye uses is 5 glasses, not the 4 that are currently sold. I think 5 is much better.
That is a Mephisto-Huis set.
Andy Martin will have one up for auction on the 19th of this month.


Erm, looks like he won’t...

Re: Multum im Parvo

Posted: August 15th, 2020, 11:19 am
by Richard Kaufman
The Kool Aid might lose its opacity because so much water is added to it during the course of the routine. Ditto for wine.