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question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 10th, 2017, 6:06 pm
by marselmarsel
who is the inventer of: Flying Box Illusion?
regarts

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 11th, 2017, 7:43 am
by Philippe Billot
The creator is Andre Kole. His illusion was named No Feet.
I don't remember the year but I think it's in the seventies.

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 11th, 2017, 1:24 pm
by Philippe Billot
Rectification : It's in the eighties.

First Ad in March 1985.

But it seems that Joe Karson is the precursor with his effect No Feet - Some Feats in 1949

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 11th, 2017, 6:38 pm
by marselmarsel
hi i´m talking about this may be the idea is diferent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AFoxeJkvIQ

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 12th, 2017, 1:23 am
by Philippe Billot
I see but it's simply an extension (or a variante) of the principle applied by Andre Kole who was inspired by Joe Karson's idea

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 12th, 2017, 6:45 am
by Tom Moore
The Cardboard Box variation / application of the principle was created by Ali Bongo with the most high-profile use of the effect being by Paul Daniels in the late 80's. All versions of the "floating cardboard box" illusion I've seen used have clearly been a direct lift from the Bongo / Daniels variation with the same moves and phases.

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 12th, 2017, 12:30 pm
by Philippe Billot
Hi Tom,

Have you a reference for Ali Bongo's variant? Book, magazine, Marketed trick?

Thanks in advance.

Philippe

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 12th, 2017, 6:27 pm
by Tom Moore
It was used in the TV series "The Paul Daniels Magic Show" 30 years ago but i don't have the exact episode to hand but there's a clip on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwqCL4xgueM this is a christmas special which was either 1988 / 1989 recording. It was not released as a marketed effect though Ali talked about it in his lectures and Paul discussed it occasionally (it wasn't special at the time - they invented 10+ illusions every year that were performed once then never used again) Raphael has a better archive of Paul & Ali's old creations than me; he can probably provide an exact date of broadcast of every version of it.

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 13th, 2017, 1:24 am
by Philippe Billot
Thanks again.

A propos, who is Raphael?

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 13th, 2017, 12:49 pm
by Tom Moore
Rafael Van Herk from Belgium - aka "Rafael" www.rafael.be

Aside from being a very creative performer he has a library and archive of contemporary European magic performance/history. Just as Max Maven or Jonny Thompson is the go-to guy in the USA, Rafael in the expert in Europe.

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 13th, 2017, 1:23 pm
by Philippe Billot
Fine.

Thank you very much.

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 16th, 2017, 7:10 pm
by marselmarsel
Hi, you know the Joe Karson´s ideas name?
i have the Joe Karson material and i dont know is is:
KARSoN'S 20Th cenNTURY SUspension may be?
regarts

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 17th, 2017, 4:01 am
by Philippe Billot
See in The Conjurors' Magazine, Vol. 5, no 7, september 1950, page 22, No Feet - Some Feat.

It's a very ingenious idea. You need only a large piece of silk and a table behind you.

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 19th, 2017, 9:48 pm
by marselmarsel
hi, you mean genii?
regarts

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 20th, 2017, 1:51 am
by Philippe Billot
No, The ConjurorS' Magazine edited by Walter Gibson in the forties.

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 20th, 2017, 7:47 pm
by JFox
To cut to the chase...The "Flying Box" is simply a clever & brilliant application of the famous Abbott/Grant Suspension trick, circa 1941.

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 20th, 2017, 8:37 pm
by marselmarsel
Walter Gigson dot edit any reviw, you say 1950 no in forties conguroos review dont exist in 50´s
Grant illusion name?
Joe Karson illusion name? regarts

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 21st, 2017, 3:21 am
by Philippe Billot
marselmarsel wrote:Walter Gigson dot edit any reviw, you say 1950 no in forties conguroos review dont exist in 50´s
Grant illusion name?
Joe Karson illusion name? regarts



See here : http://geniimagazine.com/wiki/index.php ... 7_Magazine

I repeat the name of the illusion : NO FEET - SOME FEAT. Go here : https://askalexander.org/search/%22No+F ... e+Feat%22/

Regards.

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 21st, 2017, 3:27 am
by Philippe Billot
JFox wrote:To cut to the chase...The "Flying Box" is simply a clever & brilliant application of the famous Abbott/Grant Suspension trick, circa 1941.


HI JFox,

Thanks for this reference.

I look for the Tops, Vol. 6, 1941 and I find in December, page 6 :

Abbott's SUPER X LEVITATION (Grant is not quote)

Are you speaking of this illusion ?

If so, do you know if it was explained later in a book or a magazine ? If not, do you know the name of the illusion ?

Thanks in advance.

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 21st, 2017, 3:36 am
by Philippe Billot
You can find NO FEET - SOME FEAT in The Conjurors' Book of Stage Illusions edited by Micky Hades in 1974.

It's here : http://www.magicinc.net/theconjurorsboo ... sions.aspx

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 21st, 2017, 3:39 am
by Philippe Billot
You can also read this :

viewtopic.php?t=6198

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 21st, 2017, 5:52 am
by Tom Moore
I really don't see any direct correlation between the various "no-feet" illusions and the Flying Box. Yes there is a "secret support" but it's in a completely different place, size, shape, orientation and style - to claim that the flying box is based on the Andre Kole or Joe Karson effects means you also have to claim that the Zombie Ball is based on it too.

There are designs by Harbin, Jarret, deKolter which all have much closer concepts to the flying both method (ie mechanisms and gimmicks to take the weight of a person inside an object so that the magician can handle the object as though it were empty) and so offer a clearer path of evolution to the Flying Box than the no-feet plot.

Also as a technical note, the no-feet as described in "The Counjurers Magazine" is clearly a vague idea not something that had actually been built as there are a number of basic technical errors and mistakes in its design that would be apparent to anyone that actually owned one. There's no doubt it's the genesis of the "no feet" routine in magic but is the equivalent of claiming that daVinci invented the helicopter.

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 21st, 2017, 7:59 am
by Philippe Billot
I agree. I speak simply about inspiration and evolution in an historical point of view. And I thank you again for Ali Bongo reference. One of my friends who is writting a book about Suspensions and Levitations didn't know that.

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 21st, 2017, 12:20 pm
by JFox
Hello Philippe:
Yes, I was referring to the "Super-X" Suspension gimmick (The "Flying Box" certainly has its roots in that same-type gimmick).

(btw--You didn't see the "Grant" name in the ad because Gen Grant was Percy's employee at the time, and although Grant was the true inventor of "Super-X", Percy never acknowledged or credited him with it).

Re: question a bout the creator of: Flying Box Illusion

Posted: July 21st, 2017, 1:58 pm
by Philippe Billot
Thank you Michael (JFox)

I give this "à qui de droit"