origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

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fabricemagic
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origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby fabricemagic » September 13th, 2015, 5:47 am

Hi,
Do you know the origin of the shadow efx used from Dc for his "passage thru the Chinese Wall"?
Please don' t replay me simply Bamberg "lady from light " illusion aka shadow box illusion,
Who developed the basic Bamberg /Spreerer principle in to that one?
Who builded the Dc prop?
So I 'm intersted to know more about the evolution of that shadow efx,
Thanks.

Tom Moore
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Re: origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby Tom Moore » September 13th, 2015, 6:22 am

Shadowgraphy is something that's thousands of years old so the "illusion" of appearing out of nowhere by exploiting shadow principle is untraceable.

I'll bet the DC GWoC prop was a Don Wayne / David Mendoza build (with dozens of secondary advisors) like virtually every other major illusion he used in that period
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

thomasmoorecreative

fabricemagic
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Re: origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby fabricemagic » September 13th, 2015, 7:12 am

Dear T.Moore thanks for your reply,but... it's too obvious that shadowgraphy it's a kind of anchestral art....but this is not the poit,
Before that Dc in that Tv special I never seen before used that shadow effect right in that way,
So from Bamberg/Spreerer lady from light to Dc how the effect was developed? Sorry but really I can't reconize anyone before Dc using that efx in that way...
Yes today many emulated that efx but...this is an other story.
Thanks

Tom Moore
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Re: origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby Tom Moore » September 13th, 2015, 12:27 pm

almost every shadow based illusion and shadow performance / puppet performance uses that "method"
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

thomasmoorecreative

fabricemagic
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Re: origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby fabricemagic » September 14th, 2015, 7:02 am

Dear Tom what you say is not true from my point of wiew,
Can you please tell me when where and from who before Dc do you have seen right that shadow efx performed right in that way (like a passing thru or coming/appearing or vanishing from efx ....)
From my point of wiew he was the vrry first one using it in thst way ....
Nothing to do whit Bamberg /Spreerer or Henningh/Reynolds.
Thanks for your replay.

Tom Moore
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Re: origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby Tom Moore » September 14th, 2015, 8:34 am

It is a technique used in shadow puppet theatre, the "false perspective" created by different positioned of objects relative to a light source. That technique is (literally) ancient.

The more traditional shadow box (that you keep discrediting) also utilises the same optical principle to make it appear as though the assistant is appearing from an "impossible" place and not simply stepping forwards from behind the bulb.

That shadow "trick" is ancient.
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

thomasmoorecreative

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby Jonathan Townsend » September 14th, 2015, 9:36 am

Working theatrical techniques are not somehow "new" when they get incorporated into magic tricks. Lighting, sound and mechanical stage work are well established parts theater tech. There were mechanical stages and lighting effects back as far as folks could build them. Look at magic lantern shows. ;)
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Brad Henderson
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Re: origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby Brad Henderson » September 14th, 2015, 12:54 pm

Tom is correct. You can find references to shadow effects and shows in the older literature. I believe there may be a reference even in the Dunninger's encyopedia of magic we all had at some point.

fabricemagic
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Re: origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby fabricemagic » September 14th, 2015, 2:44 pm

Thanks all of you,
But please why no one of you reply me exactly at my question?
What all of you are saying it's correct and I already know really well and I agree whit you....but ...my question still the same : before than Dc who used "IN MAGIC " exactly that principle producing right that effect?
I can't reconize anyone before but let me know if...
Lady from the light is similar but not the same...
So was Dc the first?
Thanks

Tom Moore
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Re: origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby Tom Moore » September 14th, 2015, 2:48 pm

why?
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

thomasmoorecreative

Brad Henderson
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Re: origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby Brad Henderson » September 14th, 2015, 3:06 pm

at what point does a magic show become a magic show? These types of fantastical entertainments were all common a ages ago. is a shadow axr presented at Egyptian hall now a magic act? Must the impossible illusion be produced with bases and mirrors for it to be a magic show?

if the illusion is presented in a play is it no longer magic?

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby Jonathan Townsend » September 14th, 2015, 3:13 pm

Look at the comments about convex mirrors in old books. Think about that temple with the doors which opened and fires which lit without apparent visible cause. The basic effect of things passing from other realms into ours is old. Whether it comes through the wall, up from the floor or through a doorway painted onto a wall - a shadow grows and assumes shape... not so new in effect.

[sarcasm] But when was it first performed to a Phil Collins song? And three assistants rather than one? And what if they were dressed in accurate rather than parody oriental garb?[/sarcasm]

On the legit side of history, do we have a citation for using a shadow to illustrate a transformation process - where the magician shows the before, covers, shadow changes, then shows the after? Maybe a grown adult into a child or person into animal?

If you'd like the designer's side of DC's China Wall props - ask his team.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

fabricemagic
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Re: origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby fabricemagic » September 15th, 2015, 10:11 am

Ok guys thanks,
But if you are not able to replay at my curiosity....is not mandatory that you have to reply anyway ...just to say somethings,
Thanks anyway I appreciate.

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby Jonathan Townsend » September 15th, 2015, 10:21 am

It would look so much better if you named the consultants on that trick and went from there.

Think about Gertie the Dinosaur. That was someone's working show a century ago. Look at an article or book on theatrical lighting and its use in productions to aid in storytelling. To ignore such things can make us seem "special" to non-magicians who would be otherwise happy to help us with our productions.

fabricemagic wrote:Hi,
...
Please don' t replay me ...


Sealioning already known. No need for new term in magic.

welcome
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Brad Henderson
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Re: origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby Brad Henderson » September 15th, 2015, 11:01 am

we can't help you with your question because it is poorly stated. we gave you a place to look for the techniques earliest uses. You want to know the first use in a specific context but cannot define clearly that context. When you ask a better question you will get a better answer.

Roger M.
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Re: origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby Roger M. » September 15th, 2015, 12:03 pm

fabricemagic wrote:Thanks all of you,
.... why no one of you reply me exactly at my question?
.

Perhaps your take on how DC undertook the illusion is indeed the first time that particular combination of techniques and methods were used in exactly that way, albeit that they were all individually known and used for decades, and perhaps centuries before DC used them.

Thus there would be no clear cut answer to your question as to who exactly used those methods in the same combination as DC did in his Wall illusion, as the answer might be nobody?

fabricemagic
Posts: 73
Joined: October 16th, 2013, 2:40 am
Favorite Magician: G.Jarrett

Re: origin of "Dc shadow efx thru China wall"

Postby fabricemagic » September 16th, 2015, 1:46 am

Thanks


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