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New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: June 30th, 2002, 7:38 pm
by Ruben Padilla
I'm researching Coins Across routines that utilize a shell - so far I'm partial to David Roth's routine and Paul Gertner's variation ("Modern Coin Magic" and "Steel and Silver", respectively). However, I'm still not completely satisfied. I'm convinced that somewhere out there is an idea that's perfect for me.

Any recommendations for routines you like, and where I can find them?

Thanks for posting...

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: June 30th, 2002, 7:55 pm
by David Acer
Hi Ruben,

I'm curious to know why you feel a shell-method for Coins Across will provide you with anything a non-shell-approach couldn't?

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: June 30th, 2002, 9:03 pm
by Larry Horowitz
I second David's comment. I really find no need for a shell in coins across.

In fact, David's friend Richard Sanders has a routine for coins across in the spectators hand.

It is called My Cupped Hands Runneth Over, in the book,Close Up Assassin.

The book's author is some hack whose name escapes me.

But, the trick and book are very good.

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: June 30th, 2002, 10:36 pm
by Pete Biro
When one is looking for that routine "that is perfect for me" the best way is to create your own. One's own material is generally best because you know what it is about... to do other people's magic often fails because you don't really know what the creator was thinking, or what the real premise/presentation should be. :cool:

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: June 30th, 2002, 11:51 pm
by Guest
I firmly believe that shell versions are cleaner than the non gaffed aproach. You have one extra coin, and after the desaparition of one coin you have the possibility of showing your hands empty , sleeves up, no jacket. If you have an expanded shell, coins can be borrowed, I dont know why you would not use it.

My favourite version its Roger Klause version: "Three play". Its very practical and cant be seen up to 50 persons.
Im talking after researching for the perfect coins across versions for years. I have a list up to 55 versions. Im talking only of the very best , beacause there are many more. But Im using for non magicians a version of the Klause method described in his book "In concert" a very, very good book.

I remenber that 20 years ago all people used the effect of coins acros with a glass because the sound of the coins arriving in the glass was considered a very dramatic adittion. Dont forget that dramatic point.

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 1st, 2002, 3:41 am
by John Pezzullo
Ruben,

Have you checked out Akira Fuji's 'Jet Coins'? It was published in the October 2001 issue of "Genii". It uses neither a shell or an extra coin. It's an effect that's going to require a serious amout of practice.

At the risk of stating the obvious, just keep in mind that whatever version you decide to go with, make sure that your presentation is engaging and entertaining.

Regards,

John

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 1st, 2002, 7:03 am
by Gerald Deutsch
I feel that rather than using a shell coin for a coins across routine (and there are some good one - David Roth's routine come to mind) it is more effective to borrow quarters and perform the routine in a spectator's hand. (I say quarters because half dollars are rare and so many people don't know what silver dollars are.)

I have two routines that I use, one uses an extra quarter and has an ending similar to that done with a shell (fourth appears in spectators closed hand after they see three) and the other uses only four borrowed coins (which is based on Peter Marshall's routine and which I contributed to Apocalypse - page 2852 - October 1997).

The routines can be performed anywhere - walk around magic, social events, even standing on line to buy theatre tickets and it always ends with returning the borrowed coins.

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 1st, 2002, 7:09 am
by Guest
Putting aside 3 fly routines, (I assume you are asking about traditional coins across routines where the hands close over all the coins before each coin goes). I know (as in can perform right now with no practice) 5 different coins across routines.

Mostly when perfoming for a group of people I find myself using Roth's version. I just think it is a very well constructed routine, very simple and straitforward, not terribly difficult to perform. The ending in the spectator's hand works splendidly. It is my "safe" routine, I feel very confident using it.

If I don't have a shell with me, I perform either a version using an extra coin, or a simple version using just the 4 coins.

For very close up situations where I am standing with a spectator or two, I really like Paul Cummins' Underhanded Coins Across, which is an ungaffed version.

I also have my own version that incorporates bits and pieces from the above ones that was created specifically to solve one issue: With most coins across routines you have to usually show one hand, but not the other at the same time before the coin goes because you are holding an extra coin of some form somewhere. The routine I worked out allows you to cleanly show the proper amount of coins in each hand at the same time before the hands close.

That is a fun puzzle to work on if you think about it.

Dan
www.coinvanish.com

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 1st, 2002, 10:34 am
by Ruben Padilla
I appreciate your comments guys.

I actually already know a couple of fine non-shell versions (using both four and five coins).

The reason I'm looking for a shell version is to justify the large amount of money I at last year's A-1 convention for a shiny set of 1923 Silver Dollars complete with shell. They're too beautiful to simply sit on my shelf, so I'm for a routine that will do them justice.

Maybe there are other effects besides Coins Across that will utilize the shell?

Thanks again for posting. Any more suggestions?

Ruben

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 1st, 2002, 10:42 am
by Ruben Padilla
MCUESTA, any interest in posting your list of 55 versions? I'm sure there are other people besides myself who would benefit from such generosity.

No pressure - just curious.

Thanks.
:)

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 1st, 2002, 10:48 am
by Guest
Ah Ruben,

Silver dollar size coins with a shell - you can do some nice stand up magic with those.

Here are some to think about:

Gary Kurtz' routine "Misty Like a Dream" from his "Creating Magic" video - wherin he performs his 3 fly routine with an expanded shell.

Troy Hooser's routine "exTROYdinary" from his book "desTROYers" is a nice 3 coin production/vanish flurry sequence using a shell.

Take a look at Doug Brewer's routine, "The Hook Revisited" from his book, "The Unexpected Visitor"

I think the big silver dollar size coins work better for these stand up routines where the magic happens chest level for an audience.

Dan
www.coinvanish.com

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 1st, 2002, 11:39 am
by Curtis Kam
Ruben,

Have you seen the routine in John Kennedy's lecture notes? The coins appear, travel from hand-to-hand (although tabled) and then reverse. I'm not near my library at the moment, but it's in one of his early sets of notes. Absolutely brilliant, and the reason I once went out and spent money the way you just did.

This routine is perfect for silver dollar sized coins, and looks quite a bit different from all your other coin stuff, beacuse the coins are tabled, and you merely cover them with your hands. (Okay, it might clash a little with Roth's "Chink-a-Chink")

Should coins from 1923 be "shiny and new"?

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 1st, 2002, 12:28 pm
by Pete Biro
I think coins, like your fingernails, should be "shiny and new" looking.

I shows you care.

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 1st, 2002, 12:49 pm
by Mike Powers
If you're going to use a fifth coin, why not a shell?

There's an excellent coins across (using a shell)in Kenner's "Magic Man Examiner" vol. 1 by Homer Liwag. It is called "Four Coins and Filipino." I've seen Chad Long perform it. It's really excellent. Check it out if you can find this out of print publication.

Mike

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 1st, 2002, 7:05 pm
by Steve Hook
Curtis:

I'll second your recommendation of John Kennedy's routine...and I'll take it a step further:

Check out Greg Eanes' version of the tabled-and-hand-covered-coins routine. It was a cover item in APOCALYPSE in the mid-'80s and it's called S.C.A.T. (Super Coins Across Table).

Greg is an extremely talented close-up artist from Charlotte, NC. His routine never fails to surprise magicians. The one "for magicians only" move in the middle is designed to make you think he has a coin palmed when he doesn't. Please do yourself a favor and check it out.

Steve H

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 1st, 2002, 9:01 pm
by Guest
and, taking it another step...

Dean Dill's "Call Shot" is a superb routine that uses the Kennedy sequence as a seque into the (shell coin) Chink-Chink. You can find Dean's routine on his "Coin Magic 2000" vid.

Doug Conn

PS: I believe the name of the Kennedy routine is "Translocation"

PSS: Allow me to echo the opinon of Greg Eanes S.C.A.T. routine. It's a BRILLIANT construction.

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 1st, 2002, 9:23 pm
by Curtis Kam
I'll bet you're right. "Translocation" it is. I'll have to re-read SCAT. I don't recall it as fondly as you guys do.

However, once you've got these routines down, I'd suggest you end with Larry Jennings'much-overlooked "The Hook". This routine features the same sort of vanishes as the Roth/Ramsey "Hanging Coins" but you end squeaky clean, with an optional final load. Very nice.

Alternatively, you could do Geoff Latta's "Quadra Quicksand Coins Away!" from COINMAGIC. This routine dispatches four coins. You're not clean at the end, but the audience thinks you are.

And, if all you're really interested in is coins across approaches, check out (if you can find it) Earl Nelson's coins across from "Variations" it's the only coins across routine I know where you've only got three coins and the shell, but you represent them to be four coins from beginning to end.

Now that it's clear you're talking about silver dollars, I'd stay away from the Roger Klause routine. I don't think you'll get away with hiding the last silver dollar in the spectator's hand the way Roger does it with halves. At some point, even layfolk can feel the difference.

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 2nd, 2002, 9:21 am
by Guest
it's the only coins across routine I know where you've only got three coins and the shell, but you represent them to be four coins from beginning to end.

Re-read S.C.A.T. then, you won't be able to say that anymore ;)

fyi: Greg Eanes put S.C.A.T. (and some other great stuff) on a video years ago; Early 80's (my grey matter won't spout forth the name of the tape... anyone remember this?)

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 2nd, 2002, 10:14 am
by David Acer
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Larry Horowitz:
[QB]David's friend Richard Sanders has a routine for coins across in the spectators hand. It is called My Cupped Hands Runneth Over, in the book, Close Up Assassin. The book's author is some hack whose name escapes me.[QB]

It's pronounced hacker!

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 2nd, 2002, 10:24 am
by Steve Hook
Doug:

You have a good memory! Greg did have a video (with intro by Michael Ammar): "The Far Out Close-Up of Greg Eanes". It came out in the mid-'80s. Good stuff!

S.C.A.T is in the new APOCALYPSE Volumes 6-10, if you don't have the original. Gary Plants has some comments on the routine, too.

Besides S.C.A.T, my favorite Greg magic was:

a vastly improved handling of Holey POD (from RICHARD'S ALMANAC);

an excellent small-packet monte routine that very cleverly used a string at one point to keep track of the odd card;

a killer business card / signature transposition (which was published in the Magical Arts Journal).

Check 'em out and enjoy!

Steve

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 2nd, 2002, 11:53 am
by Doomo
Actually, You can do a really excellent coins across routine with a 2 copper and 1 silver set. The set with the english penny and the chinese coin and the half dollar. The interesting part about this version is that the hands don't come near each other and there are no proving moves...

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 2nd, 2002, 12:03 pm
by Guest
Originally posted by Doomo:
Actually, You can do a really excellent coins across routine with a 2 copper and 1 silver set. The set with the english penny and the chinese coin and the half dollar.
That would be a Copper/Silver/Brass set.

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 2nd, 2002, 12:32 pm
by Guest
Re: Greg Eanes Vid / Material

Indeed, that Eanes tape has some goodies on it: The bizcard trick is a 'worker and 1/2'... and the holey trick is fantastic. Wow, does that bring back some memories.
I don't know if Greg is interested in such things, but IMO that material could stand ground with anything being released today.

Anyway, before I get too far off topic,

I'll mention a coins across routine...(assuming 'coins to glass' counts as coins across.) Check out (ahem) "Three Lumps" from 'Tricks of My Trade - The Magic of Doug Conn' ;) The gaffed version is on p.150. (I mention the routine mainly because of the response it's recieved from other magi... it's 'out of print' so.... I"m not looking to sell anything...etc...)

well, now I need to equal the scale of humbleness... let's see... oh I know!...

For another BRILLIANT coins to glass routine Check out Senior' Hacker's 'Money Flys.' Just so I'm not the only one doing shameless self promotion, I'll let David toot his own horn as to how/where you may learn this fabulouso routine.(though no shell is needed, argh, again off topic.)

on that note,
that's nuff,
Doug Conn

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 2nd, 2002, 6:13 pm
by Shawn Preston
Check with Dave Neighbors. He has created at least 50 versions of coins across using all sorts of gimmicked and non-gimmicked coins. My current favorite is his "No Touch 3 Fly" - where all three coins travel without the hands coming together. Dave is an incredibly prolific creator who rarely gets the credit he deserves.

Regards
Shawn

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 3rd, 2002, 7:33 am
by Bill Mullins
Is the Greg Eanes tape still in print? Who
sells it?

Bill

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 4th, 2002, 2:14 pm
by Pete McCabe
Ruben,

In the current issue of AM/PM is my own coins across routine called "The Vortex", using two coins and a shell represented as three coins the entire time. You could do it with 3 coins plus shell as four coins, but I don't think that adds anything.

I personally use a three-ungimmicked-coin routine based on Jay Sankey's Mr. Clean Coins Across most of the time, but the use of the shell definitely allows moment of unmatchable clarity and cleanliness.

Whether this additional cleanliness is necessary is another question. McCabe's first rule of Magic: If you create an interesting presentation and perform it well, the secret method you use will be irrelevant until after the trick is over, at which point it's too late.

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 4th, 2002, 9:27 pm
by David Neighbors
Hi Guys,
And Thanks Shawn, Yea Four and A shell Or three And A shell Kills ! You just get some Vanishes And Appenarances That are just not as clean With out it! for 4 coins and a shell You mite want to try my Crossed coins from my Sound Routines book. ( A book on the rattle gimmick) my shelled P.D.Q. From My notes Next door Neighbors And for A Transolocation Handleing My Table Squeeze from my book Silver and the pastboards. For three and a shell as four coins My open Travelers from my Japan notes. And Cardless from my Las Vegas notes.
For three and a shell as Three coins My Quick shot 2 A coins to glass Handleing, from My Las Vegas notes.my super fly two A one touch ( IE. the hands don't come togeter To after the 2TH. coin) Handleing.from My Las Vegas notes And A One touch Backfire Three fly Also fron the Las Vegas notes! I have have lots more Three fly stuff But that is all that is in print yet! As for useing two copper
one silver in A coins across you mite try my sandy
from my book coinjurering. or the updated handleing from my Las Vegas notes called sandy gets the urge.I have A stand-up no table handleing of sandy but that is not in print yet! More coins across stuff will be comeing out in My frist hard bound book from L&L hopefuly some time this year or next. As Shawn said I have lots more coins across stuff backed up and ready to coin out sometime ??? Stop me when you see one you like :) . If anyone is inerested E-Mail me thanks for your time!

Best David Neighbors
The Coinjurer

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 12th, 2002, 1:09 pm
by Guest
I think that Liwag's "Four coins and a Fillipino"
is a great version with a shell. ( I first saw Chris Korn perform this years ago at Magi-Fest and it was beautiful!) Also Doug Conn's Three lumps is a fantastic method and the use of the cup is dare I say Brilliant. Any of Slydini's stuff is worth looking into as well,
Cheers,
Jay

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 12th, 2002, 1:25 pm
by Guest
I just posted a three coins across video on my website www.coinvanish.com in the "videos" section.

The routine is called "Three Way Crossing".

My focus on that routine was to create a coins across where you can show both hands to have to proper amount of coins at the same time before the fly occurs.

There is some bit of misdirection needed when performed, which is impossible to relay over the camera "the all seeing eye". But I think it came out okay considering you can't misdirect the camera.

Let me know what you guys think.

Dan

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 12th, 2002, 1:42 pm
by Curtis Kam
Ruben,

It was good to meet you, however fleetingly, at the IBM convention last week. That was you, wasn't it? It's a bit of a blur.

Anyways, in your quest for the ultimate shelled coins across rouine, I have a suggestion for you. My routine along these lines might not come out for quite some time, so I want you should have it now, in case you find it interesting.

I use three silver coins, a silver shell and a slightly shaved down English Penny (so that it fits in the shell). I put the Penny in the spectator's hand first, "...for two reasons. First, the trick the Penny does is so good, that if I were to do it first, you might as well go home early after that, so I'm saving it for later. Second, you'll notice that the penny has a woman's head on it, and that is an irresistable attractor of the young men on these halves, they being Kennedys."

Now perform your best three across into her hand. If she's suficiently impressed, stop there. If you could do one more, "remember" that you haven't yet done that great trick with the penny. Segue into Geoff Latta's shelled Copper/Silver transposition from Coinmagic (or was it the Almanac?) This is the ideal follow-up.

I've left out the details, since this is a rather public spot. However, I think there's enough here so that you could work it out, of course you'll have to translate to dollar sized coins.

This has worked out for me, I hope it does for you.

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 13th, 2002, 10:40 pm
by Paul Green
Hi Ruben,

You were one of the few that got a chance to purchase my new DVD at the IBM convention. If you would refer to "Above, Beside, or Below", you will find my routine for the coins across plot. It also appears in my notes Nothing Up My GreenSleeves.

I have used this routine for years and it flys quite well.

Good luck in your searching.

Regards,

Paul Green

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 14th, 2002, 6:10 am
by Guest
Originally posted by Paul Green:
I have used this routine for years and it flys quite well.
Pun intended?

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 21st, 2002, 6:00 pm
by mike cookman
I believe that whether or not you use a shell, coins across can be one of the most magical looking routines a magician can perform. I have no moral qualms with a shell. I love my shell. And David Roth's Shell Coins Across ends with you vanishing the shell and the spectators all looking at the one spectator who is holding the coins, so there's millions of ways to ditch the shell and end clean. Ta da!

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 21st, 2002, 7:27 pm
by Steve Hook
Bill:

I spoke with Greg Eanes this week and he had comments re the video and his book/notes:

The video is out of print. He does not know of anyone selling it right now. He is going to check with his partner on the possibility of re-producing it.

The book has been shelved indefinitely because of Greg's commitment to painting and programming. But he IS thinking about publishing a new version of his lecture notes, which would contain all the effects mentioned here and more.

If and when this happens, I'll bring it up at The Genii Forum.

Steve H

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 22nd, 2002, 7:54 am
by Bill Mullins
Since I posted above, I saw a copy of Eanes' tape on a list of used magic from Paul Diamond. Just received it, and watched it late last night. It was a performance-only set in someone's living room. But as said by others above, it is very good.

Ammar has hair, and Eanes has some sort of white-guy afro going on.

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 22nd, 2002, 7:40 pm
by Mitch Dutton
Bill - is Paul Diamond still active in magic? If so, how do I contact him? Thanks! --Mitch

Re: New Coins Across Routines (w/shell)...

Posted: July 23rd, 2002, 7:49 am
by Bill Mullins
email Paul Diamond at:

mrhumble@prodigy.net

He sends out lists of used / estate magic fairly often.

Bill Mullins