“Browning” copper coins?

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Karnak
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Joined: October 18th, 2019, 3:22 pm
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“Browning” copper coins?

Postby Karnak » February 1st, 2023, 1:08 pm

My collection of English pennies spans a spectrum of shades ranging from shiny new copper (a bright amber orange) all the way to antique bronze (a dark chocolate brown).

Uniformity, and hence interchangeability, are therefore a problem.

I have various sorts of gaff sets that thus cannot be combined with each other, due to the stark mismatches in the colors of their copper aspects.

Obviously I could easily render them pretty much all the same with a quick vinegar and salt bath, but I really don’t want the default baseline of all my English pennies (especially the really old King George ones) to be bright and shiny.

So instead, is there a way of hastening the all-too-slow accumulation of that rich brown tarnish/patina on my shinier copper coins?

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: “Browning” copper coins?

Postby Richard Kaufman » February 1st, 2023, 1:46 pm

Maybe you can clean all of them, and then age all of them.
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NicholasD52
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Joined: July 18th, 2022, 11:00 am

Re: “Browning” copper coins?

Postby NicholasD52 » February 1st, 2023, 5:27 pm

I’ve found over many years that if you clean very old English pennies, and newer ones , and you also have very new crisp coins , they many times will age with different shades of brown, bronze or black.

Dave Le Fevre
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Re: “Browning” copper coins?

Postby Dave Le Fevre » February 1st, 2023, 5:30 pm

Old UK pennies are my coins of choice for conjuring.

I've found https://goddardsshop.co.uk/products/11204 to be good for removing some of the dark aging in a controlled way.

(I'm aware that you wish to accelerate the aging. But this provides a way of equalising the aging without going via the shiny stage.)

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John M. Dale
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Re: “Browning” copper coins?

Postby John M. Dale » February 2nd, 2023, 6:01 pm

I use Queen Victoria pennies and have a bunch that I acquired over a period of about 10 years, most from Todd Lassen, who reduced them to fit in a half dollar shell and used some to make some other gaffs. They were in various states of patina and since they were reduced, the edge patinas had been removed .

When I later got a copper Okito box set from him, I asked him about the best way to get a good patina and he told me to rub the boxes on my nose. The oils transferred would speed the process and by spreading the oils repeatedly it would help keep the patina smooth.

I did this and can attest that it worked. A patina fingerprint which was caused by the same oils that developed on the brand new boxes triggered the question. That fingerprint became invisible quickly and all three boxes (and their lids) now have nearly identical patinas. (Except for the inside corners around the bottoms where the tip of my nose wouldn’t fit. The shiny copper there helps hide the Slot box’s slot and it looks nearly identical to the bottoms of Okito and Boston boxes.)

Since this worked on the boxes, I tried the same thing on the Queen Vic pennies and got the same great result and all of them are a matching deep rich brown.

One other thing that seems to have also helped (and I have no evidence other my own experience) is that I store all of these coins together in two leather clasp coin purses. These are the old style with the invisible coin purse style purses not the ones with the inside clasp.

I stack silver Walker halves with the Queen Vic’s separated in the middle by a couple of copper/silvers. Whenever I had a Queen Vic that I felt needed some work to darken it to better match its sisters, I would put it with the side I wanted to darken on the top of the stack so it contacted the inside of the leather purse and it seemed to help speed the process.

The purse is lined with cloth so I don’t if it’s the lining, the leather, the inclusion of the silver Walkers, or just my imagination the causes the quickening.

At this point all of the coins and the boxes have been at a stable states of patina for over five years.

Last, comment. I’ve tried the same thing (nose oil) with QEII pennies and the results have not been as good. It seems to work but the patina isn’t as uniform nor as quick as with the older coins. Obviously, the copper composition is different between the older and newer pennies. The patina on the boxes also isn’t nearly as dark as the Queen Vic’s but is nicely uniform.

I can post pics if anyone is interested in the results.

JMD

Karnak
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Joined: October 18th, 2019, 3:22 pm
Location: Connecticut

Re: “Browning” copper coins?

Postby Karnak » February 3rd, 2023, 7:32 pm

Thanks for all of the thoughtful, detailed responses.

The “nose oil” thing is interesting; I’ll give it a try.

And the fact that it works better on the older pennies underscores the degree to which their alloys differed over time — quantitatively not by much, but evidently enough to make a significant difference in the nature and degree of their darkening.

topspin
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Re: “Browning” copper coins?

Postby topspin » April 20th, 2023, 12:58 am

At one time I wanted to darken my English pennies so they would contrast more with the silver half dollars. The English pennies I had at the time ranged from bright copper to almost black. But I couldn’t find three or four that had the same consistent darkness. I asked David Roth (this was a LONG time ago) what he did to make his English pennies look so dark and he said I should try gun bluing solution. I tried it and it worked although you had to re-apply since it does wear off after a while. It was also not as straightforward and easy to apply as I had assumed – you had to experiment a bit to get the darkness you want.

BarryAllen
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Re: “Browning” copper coins?

Postby BarryAllen » April 21st, 2023, 7:41 pm

Bear one thing in mind - particularly with older Queen Victoria Pennies.

The browner (more patina) that they get, the more that they tend to smell! 130+ years of copper oxidisation is hardly a pleasant fragrance.

If you are performing a routine whereby you use the spectators hands (as I do with my coins to glass routine) you won't be very popular if you ask someone to handle coins that will subsequently leave their own hands smelling as if they are slowly decomposing!

I use Brasso wadding (no doubt your side of the pond has something similar?) to spruce them up - rubbing gently and polishing the centre two thirds of the coin - so that you get a partly (not overly) shiny-looking coin that doesn't look (and smell) as if you've just excavated it from a Victorian London sewer. Think of your audience - would you want to handle mouldy-looking copper coins?

Moreover, this (minimal) effort, apart from making the coins more aesthetically pleasing to look at, certainly takes a significant part of the pong away.

As an aside, I also keep sponge balls regularly washed - and spray them with after shave once dry.

OCD? I don't think so. I just always want to treat my audience with the respect that they deserve.

Leo Garet
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Re: “Browning” copper coins?

Postby Leo Garet » April 22nd, 2023, 10:52 am

I agree with Mister Allen. Brasso and vinegar do the job. White vinegar, for preference.

Regarding the fact that the coins might look too shiny, I’ve found that spectators happily accept a comment to the effect:

“These coins are not new and that being so they tend to smell a bit, something to do with oxidisation or somesuch. The scientists among us will know all about that. Keeping them clean holds the pong at bay.”

Never any questions asked. Doesn't mean there aren't any, of course, but we can't do anything about that if they're not voiced.

PressureFan
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Re: “Browning” copper coins?

Postby PressureFan » April 22nd, 2023, 11:50 am

I used to do a tidy little Spellbound routine. I kept my English penny shiny for contrast. The first time I performed it in a dim nightclub, I was surprised to see that the coins looked about the same. The red neon on the beer signs made the Kennedy half look dark and dulled the shine on the copper.

Edward Pungot
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Re: “Browning” copper coins?

Postby Edward Pungot » April 22nd, 2023, 9:03 pm

I’m looking also to preserve the patina of old silver coins as well when cleaning as I don’t want to loose the background contrast that give old coins that aesthetic look. Overcleaned coins loose their character in my opinion.

Dawn Liquid Soap & Warm Water Bath

White Vinegar Bath

Toothpaste & Old Toothbrush

Paris Oxyde or Sulphur Liver to Darken


diagonalpalmshift
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Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: “Browning” copper coins?

Postby diagonalpalmshift » April 23rd, 2023, 8:18 pm

I would love to “green” some copper coins or even half a coin (a copper/green coin?). Seemed fun to do Spellbound or copper/greener with a Statue of Liberty bent.

Thanks!

Ricky

Edward Pungot
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Re: “Browning” copper coins?

Postby Edward Pungot » April 24th, 2023, 6:45 pm

Sorry Ricky about your Todd Lassen gaffs.
Having corrosive properties is a strange superpower.
Better to err on the side of caution with Lincoln pennies first. I think the Magic Cafe has a few threads on darkening copper coins.


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