Thé Magic Cards by Brother John Hamman

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Thomas Van Aken
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Thé Magic Cards by Brother John Hamman

Postby Thomas Van Aken » January 29th, 2023, 8:34 am

Hi all,
The Magic Cards is one of those routines I know for years but that I never presented nor even practiced or « played with » until now.
I am certainly not the first to notice this and it may even been already discussed on this very forum but this routine has what I think a huge discrepancy that to makes things worse happen three times: When the three magic cards (assuming those are red backed) are dropped on each selected card (assuming those are blue backed) and the Gemini Count is executed, the colour of the backs showing up is not always the one one could expect if the Gemini count was only a unconventional way of showing cards one at the time and bottom up. The first card shows a red back when it should have be blue and after the second card is turned back down and dealt on the table, the top card of the packet in the left hand apparently changes from red to blue.
I reread both descriptions in Richard’s Almanac and Secrets of Brother John Hamman and RK did not mention those discrepancies even I cannot believe he did not notice those.
Any comment ?
Br,
Th.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Thé Magic Cards by Brother John Hamman

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 29th, 2023, 11:07 am

A lot of Brother Hamman's magic has enormous psychological discrepancies. That's the point of his work: people do not notice these things if you are guilt free and do not talk too much. Please read my comments about these things in his book.
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Thomas Van Aken
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Re: Thé Magic Cards by Brother John Hamman

Postby Thomas Van Aken » January 29th, 2023, 3:36 pm

Hi Richard,
I will certainly reread your comments and I agree that most spectators will not notice the discrepancies and even less if the performer is competent but some will certainly notice them.
Interestingly, in the magic cards you apparently show three four of a kind (or something similar) where in “the twins “ you apparently show four pairs of identical cards.
I like “The Twins” very much and present it often (and I hope, competently) but I do not consider it a deep mystery for most of my audience: they like the story and get surprised by the apparence of new cards they did not expect but I don’t think most of them stay long fooled by the trick. They don’t know how I did but they do not have a “no way” kind of reaction as I get when I do “Triumph “ for exemple…
Br,
Th.

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Thé Magic Cards by Brother John Hamman

Postby Dustin Stinett » January 30th, 2023, 4:06 pm

I have been doing my version of "The Magic Cards" for decades (Richard has seen it on video, and one day it might even appear in Genii ... maybe). I use all different backed cards. No one notices the discrepancies at all. Ever.

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Re: Thé Magic Cards by Brother John Hamman

Postby Dave Le Fevre » January 31st, 2023, 4:13 am

Audience perception of such discrepancies seems to vary widely. Some people notice them, but they fly past others.

Some years ago, a well-known conjuror lectures at my magic club. He performs a card effect to which my reaction is oh god he’s totally screwed that up. I feel embarrassed for him, I say nothing, nobody else says anything. I shall quietly mention it in the interval, but with my usual memory I completely forget to do so.

I buy his lecture notes ‘cos there’s something that I want in them. When I read them the next day, they mention that there’s a logical discrepancy in that (screwed up) effect but that nobody ever sees it. Except that of course not only did I see it, it smacked me in the face.

There’s an effect in Derren Brown’s The Devil’s Picturebook that similarly smacked me in the face. I know many who have that video/DVD, but nobody else has noticed it. I think that I tend to notice patterns, and discrepancies in patterns.

In some ways I wish that I didn’t notice patterns and discrepancies, because it ruins my enjoyment of some effects.

Dustin Stinett wrote:No one notices the discrepancies at all. Ever.
You're probably right. However ...

Some performers refuse to believe that spectators can see the method, even when they’re told.

Many years ago, a well-known mentalist lectures at my magic club. Cannot now recall his name.

He performs an effect with some numbers written on the a board. To me, the method is obvious. But of course I say nothing. Then he explains the method, and states that nobody can ever work it out.

I tell him that, just for his information, the method had been obvious to me. I say that I’m only mentioning it ‘cos I don’t want him and others to think that the method is completely hidden. He denies what I’m saying and claims that the method really cannot be seen.

In the interval, two other members both tell me that they too had immediately seen the method, but they hadn’t spoken out because of his reaction to my comment.

I expect that, to this day, he still believes that that method is invisible to everybody.

Thomas Van Aken
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Re: Thé Magic Cards by Brother John Hamman

Postby Thomas Van Aken » January 31st, 2023, 8:45 am

Hi,
"Always" and "never" are dangerous words to use.
Some laymen’s are more observant than others and some magicians are better at hiding or misdirecting from inconsistencies.
Roberto Giobbi himself explains that when he once showed a trick based on Si Stebbins to his future wife he was starting to date at the time, Barbara immediately noticed that the cards were alternating in red and black.
To go back to “The Magic Cards”, I started to play with it without rereading the explanations first and noticed about the discrepancies so I concluded I was missing something. I looked up “Richard’s Almanac” and found that the discrepancies were there too so I look at Secret of Brother John Hamman and found the same so I ended up writing this post.
Br,
Th.

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Thé Magic Cards by Brother John Hamman

Postby Dustin Stinett » January 31st, 2023, 9:19 am

Is it possible no one said anything? Of course. But it's highly unlikely that, in about 40 years of doing the routine in bars, at parties, workplaces, and many other social situations where there is almost always one person who'd love to challenge me never said anything, and I will say it again, EVER. My version uses different color backs for each card, so the changing backs blend in. I also only have two selections made, not three, and the "Magic Cards" all end up being blank (using the move that has been challenged several times over the years). So this is not theoretical; it is practical experience speaking. So I will say it yet again; the discrepancy has never, ever been noticed by anyone (whose name could possibly be "Dick").

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Re: Thé Magic Cards by Brother John Hamman

Postby Dave Le Fevre » January 31st, 2023, 10:17 am

I hadn’t meant to imply that you, nor indeed anybody else here, was deceiving themselves by extrapolating from nobody’s-ever-said-anything to it-fools-everybody. Apologies if my post was read that way.

Merely observing that, in general, it’s a natural tendency to make that deduction. I have one effect whose method I’m sure must be detected every now and again, simply based on the fact that many spectators are intelligent and logical. I’ve never ever been called on it. But I don’t deduce from that that it fools everybody.

And I do take you point about a challenging spectator. If such a spectator makes no comment, then we can assume that he's been fooled.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Thé Magic Cards by Brother John Hamman

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 31st, 2023, 11:20 am

We must differentiate between audiences of magicians and lay people. If you are a magician, and you noticed a discrepancy, then congratulations because you were paying close attention. But you are not a lay person.
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Chris Aguilar
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Re: Thé Magic Cards by Brother John Hamman

Postby Chris Aguilar » January 31st, 2023, 12:31 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:We must differentiate between audiences of magicians and lay people. If you are a magician, and you noticed a discrepancy, then congratulations because you were paying close attention. But you are not a lay person.

Generally I agree with this.

However, some laymen are very observant and notice discrepancies that fly by other layman.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Thé Magic Cards by Brother John Hamman

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 31st, 2023, 12:35 pm

Yes, that's true. And most magicians are unobservant and don't notice discrepancies. That's because most humans are unobservant.
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Re: Thé Magic Cards by Brother John Hamman

Postby Tarotist » January 31st, 2023, 1:26 pm

For some odd reason I agree with Richard. The opinion of magicians don't count. It is amazing what obvious discrepancies you can get away with providing you know how to distract people with your jibber jabber and knowledge of psychology and human nature. For example I once came up with an idea regarding the famous Spellbound coin effect. It was so brazen I thought I would never get away with and I was daft enough to ask Al Goshman what he thought. I am afraid the old misery didn't think much of it at all but I am glad I ignored him and have been using it ever since for several decades and to my astonishment nobody sees a thing.

At one point in my routine where I have a silver coin I say, "I know what you are thinking. You think I am using two coins. Well you are quite right and here is the other coin. (here I produce a copper coin) but it makes no difference since I can still change a silver coin to a copper coin and a copper coin back to a silver one" At one point in the preceding palaver for a few seconds they can actually see right in front of them TWO copper coins plainly visible right in front of them! However, even though their eyes see it, their brains don't process what they are seeing.

With audacity, bluff and a knowledge of human nature and the way people think it is amazing what you can achieve as a magician.


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