Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
mrmagik68
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Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby mrmagik68 » February 12th, 2022, 8:51 pm

Greetings all,

I'd like to first start off by saying, I think that the digital archival library of all of the Genii magazines from beginning to current that's made available to Genii subscribers is a monumental treasure trove and worth much more than the cost of a subscription, in my opinion.

I was reading the October 2004 issue of Genii which features the life and magic of Bruce Cervon. In the interview, David Regal, asks Bruce about the early years of the Castle and how it was an oasis for magicians. Bruce replied by stating, "Close-up magic was built right here at The Magic Castle. People think close-up magic is old, that it was in Chicago and New York. It wasn't". But my question is, wasn't Stars of Magic, possibly one of the most important books on close-up magic of its time, created from magicians who were mostly part of the NY magic scene? If so, doesn't that prove that Close-up magic was indeed born prior to the Castle? Your thoughts?


Best,

Roberto

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Dustin Stinett » February 13th, 2022, 12:50 am

To borrow and paraphrase a Wolfgang Pauli quote, Bruce's beliefs in that regard are so misguided that they couldn't even reach up to the level of being wrong.

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Krenz » February 13th, 2022, 12:58 am

Our dear friend Max Maven once did a talk on the origins of close-up magic. I believe that Chicago's Schulien's Restaurant was brought up.

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Philippe Billot » February 13th, 2022, 3:19 am

As Jean Hugard write in his book Close-up Magic for the Night Club Magician (first edition 1934), the close-up begins in Europa at the end of the XIXe century.
But it is likely that the Magic Castle has contributed a lot to its development in the USA.

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Tom Gilbert » February 13th, 2022, 7:22 am

Most likely a lot developed in the "back rooms" of the old magic shops, long before the Castle.

mrmagik68
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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby mrmagik68 » February 13th, 2022, 8:13 am

Philippe Billot wrote:As Jean Hugard write in his book Close-up Magic for the Night Club Magician (first edition 1934), the close-up begins in Europa at the end of the XIXe century.
But it is likely that the Magic Castle has contributed a lot to its development in the USA.



Philippe,

No doubt that the Castle has contributed to the performance and commercial aspects of Close Up magic immensely. It's the Mecca of magic, in my opinion. But I don't think Bruce's assessment is accurate.


Best,

Roberto

Brad Henderson
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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Brad Henderson » February 13th, 2022, 11:49 am

Much of the magic performed by the early jongleurs would be considered close up magic. It wasn’t considered close up magic. But it was. They would entertain the patrons at the tavern or inn in exchange for food and recompense.

I think one could argue that the notion of close up magic as a special genre followed the fascination with ‘vest pocket magic’. The distinction of Micro magic or vest pocket magic was the taxonomic leap which led to the acknowledgment of close up magic as a specialized form of magic.

That’s not to say people weren’t doing close up tricks before then, as I have noted. Speaking only in terms of recognition of close up as a specialized genre.

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Close-Up Magic as seen at The Magic Castle

Postby Jonathan Townsend » February 13th, 2022, 12:54 pm

Is it okay to blame Al Goshman for reshaping wetsuit material into a closeup pad and selling sponges? :)

We could focus in from the social party-goer down to treating the bridge table as if it were a theater and the closeup pad as if it were a stage. Then, in the sense of the magic shop in America, selling items and books as a specialization - perhaps - along with Tenyo, Ace Magic in England... I guess we could claim to upgrade the joke-shop toys into fine arts craft ... though gamblers have been wary of such for centuries, as evident in Sharpes and Flats, and in America, "erdnase".

In patter/story context you could put a time machine in the back room of The Magic Castle and go from there.

In history as we know it from easily available literature and materials though;
In performance - clearly dates back to before Scot's book from the sixteenth century.
In terms of buying tricks - magic kits were available as amusements.
In terms of literature - placing magic with indoor amusements and games was ... also before the Magic Castle was founded. :)
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Al Schneider » February 13th, 2022, 2:19 pm

In 1830 in Boston 35% of people lived in boarding houses. Most had sitting rooms. I have read that some individuals went from house to house doing tricks. The top change, pass, and palm ruled in the very low light conditions of the day. I suspect this was true of most cities that grew at that time. Then, where had that technology come from and how long had it been used? Does anyone have better information on this? Incidentally, boarding houses were eventually declared illegal.
The single absolute truth is that we don't know.

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Richard Kaufman » February 13th, 2022, 2:35 pm

Gas jets in the 1830s, flickering light. Excellent for sleight of hand.
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Tom Stone
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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Tom Stone » February 14th, 2022, 8:23 am

mrmagik68 wrote:No doubt that the Castle has contributed to the performance and commercial aspects of Close Up magic immensely. It's the Mecca of magic, in my opinion.


"Mecca of magic" is such a weird phrase. As far as I know, it is not prohibited for non-magicians to visit the Castle, and so far, I haven't seen a single magician anywhere who bow in the direction of the Castle on a daily basis. Isn't there a better alitteration?

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Bill Mullins » February 14th, 2022, 9:31 am

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

"Mecca: a place which attracts people of a particular group or with a particular interest"

"Mecca" is being used figuratively, here. I can't imagine that anyone who hears the phrase "Mecca of magic" interprets it literally, as a holy place for Muslims (unless, of course, they are looking to find a controversy where none exists.)

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby El Mystico » February 14th, 2022, 9:47 am

I guess it partly depends on how you define close-up magic (yes, you could say it is magic done up close, but if I saw a woman in half in your living room, is that close-up-magic?). I'm a fan of Bruce, but it is hard to argue he was right. I think there is an argument for saying what most of us perform as close-up magic today has its origins in the New York circle in the 1930s and 40s - Vernon, Baker, Horowitz, Daley etc, as Roberto says. But what happened at the Castle had a big influence on the development.

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Brad Henderson » February 14th, 2022, 9:50 am

Recently saw someone looking to make ‘mecca of magic’ an issue. Looked into it. Muslims do not refer to their holy city as Mecca but Makkah. The offense that exists would be if the proper name was used, or in some cases, when their city is referred to as Mecca.using the lower case would be preferred when using tje word as a term of a place that attracts people of a certain issue.

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Richard Kaufman » February 14th, 2022, 11:44 am

It is impossible to argue that Cervon is right because he is unquestionably wrong. But he liked that idea because it put him into the middle of the birth of close-up magic according to his world view, which is nonsense.
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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby mrmagik68 » February 14th, 2022, 1:09 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:From the Oxford English Dictionary:

"Mecca: a place which attracts people of a particular group or with a particular interest"

"Mecca" is being used figuratively, here. I can't imagine that anyone who hears the phrase "Mecca of magic" interprets it literally, as a holy place for Muslims (unless, of course, they are looking to find a controversy where none exists.)



Bill,

How are you my friend? It's been a super long time. By the way, I couldn't have written a better response than the one above. Thank you.


Best,

Roberto

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Brad Henderson » February 14th, 2022, 2:16 pm

How are you my friend?
How are you, my friend?

The difference a comma makes.

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Tom Stone
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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Tom Stone » February 14th, 2022, 3:34 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:From the Oxford English Dictionary:

"Mecca: a place which attracts people of a particular group or with a particular interest"

"Mecca" is being used figuratively, here. I can't imagine that anyone who hears the phrase "Mecca of magic" interprets it literally

I guess it must be an english idiom. To me, it sounds like saying "NYC Monday Night Magic is the London of Magic" or "Chicago Magic Lounge is the Vatican state of magic" or "Black Rabbit Rose is the Pittsburgh of magic". Perhaps it isn't as weird as it sounds then.

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Richard Kaufman » February 14th, 2022, 3:35 pm

Yes, idiomatic.
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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Bill Mullins » February 14th, 2022, 4:31 pm

As fluent in English as you are, Tom, I'm surprised that this is news to you.

Roberto -- greetings to you as well.

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Tom Stone » February 14th, 2022, 4:52 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:As fluent in English as you are, Tom, I'm surprised that this is news to you.

I learnt English from reading books, and from corresponding with Max Maven and Stephen Minch. Verbal conversation with English speakers have been rare. So, yes, there are vast gaps in my general knowledge about English idioms. I've never seen any place refering to itself as the town "Mecka" besides Magic Castle and the actual place.

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » February 15th, 2022, 1:13 am

Vernon "ascended" into our mythology leaving a small school of disciples who gathered in Hollywood. He also spoke to a generation about refining ones work, methods, striving for excellence, presenting the audience with plausibly consistent mannerisms, and history. But must we create our own myth of a pasteboard prophet, a right of succession, or a book from which quotes can be taken to incite unpleasantness and followers to enforce ritual practice, including fingerpointing?

@all, did people play cards by flickering gaslight?

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Dave Le Fevre » February 15th, 2022, 3:53 am

Having had a UK upbringing in a non-religious household many decades ago, I associated the word Mecca with bingo. Honestly, I did.

People would refer to "an evening at Mecca" to mean an evening spent playing bingo at one of Mecca's establishments.

(I hasten to add that I've never been in a Mecca bingo hall.)

https://www.meccabingo.com/

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Tarotist » February 15th, 2022, 9:20 am

Brad Henderson wrote:Recently saw someone looking to make ‘mecca of magic’ an issue. Looked into it. Muslims do not refer to their holy city as Mecca but Makkah. The offense that exists would be if the proper name was used, or in some cases, when their city is referred to as Mecca.using the lower case would be preferred when using tje word as a term of a place that attracts people of a certain issue.


Actually Makkah is a very rude word in grafter's slang. I used to hear it quite often. It means an inferior product. Naturally I am an expert in this particular meaning of the word. I remember selling imported svengali decks from India. They were so thin that you could actually see through them. That was definitely Makkah!

I also remember Ron MacMillan had a ton of very bad stripper decks. Somebody had cut them all wrong. You could see the taper from across the room. They were actually unsaleable. However, Ron offered them to me for a very low price saying, "You are the only person I know who can get rid of them" Of course he meant sell them and I did! No card boxes either---just a rubber band around each deck. I sold them in a respectable department store and remember saying, "You get a free rubber band with every pack we sell"

They were definitely Makkah!

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Leo Garet » February 15th, 2022, 10:37 am

Dave Le Fevre wrote:Having had a UK upbringing in a non-religious household many decades ago, I associated the word Mecca with bingo. Honestly, I did.

People would refer to "an evening at Mecca" to mean an evening spent playing bingo at one of Mecca's establishments.

(I hasten to add that I've never been in a Mecca bingo hall.)

https://www.meccabingo.com/


In my neck of the woods, most of the bingo palaces, Mecca, Locarno and umpteen others were dance halls and/or cinemas. Many of the cinemas had a billiard parlour on the next floor.

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Re: Close Up Magic Born in Hollywood?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » February 15th, 2022, 1:28 pm

Tom Stone wrote:...Isn't there a better alitteration?
Maybe. But in practice the term suits. Folks go visiting there, and the place is held as special in our community. The art is attracting the best available and accreting its own traditions and semiotics. As with turbans, fezs, castles, ruins in the backyard, wands, skulls... our culture was rather acquisitive.

We're still a generation away from sifting out cultural appropriation and Orientalism. Someday the terms House of Mystery for the public and House of Secrets for magicians might work. The Larsens and all involved have done so much for this craft to earn it a respected future.


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