Characters on "Chinese" Coins

[erdnasephile]

We've all seen the props of old where either phony or inappropriate Chinese characters were used. I can remember using some of those in my youth as well, even though I should have known better. Years ago, I was performing and an Asian spectator took one of the coins and translated it during the performance. While he was nice about it, it was embarrassing as it made it clear the coin was fraudulent, since the characters the manufacturer chose were inappropriate.

I'm mentioning this because I recently got a relative to take a look at all the "Chinese" coins I use as magic props to see if things had gotten any better. Most were decent replicas with appropriate characters. However, there were at least 2 from big name manufacturers with either characters that would likely never appear on a Chinese coin or that literally say: "A Coin for Magic."

I realize that this may not matter to lots of magicians, which is fine. The average spectator might not care either, which is fine. The point of this post is not to moralize, rant or complain, just to inform. I would respectfully suggest that today's society is a much more global one and many communities are much more diverse, which may increase the chances of being called out on this issue by observant spectators.

Besides, I don't think anybody really wants to be the magic equivalent of this: http://hanzismatter.blogspot.com/

[I.M. Magician]

I have seen this discussed before. My feeling is this...

The characters on the coin used for magic do not have to say anything really. If it does, it should be something clean and innocent.

The spectator should be focused on the effect and not the characters on the coin. If they choose to fixate on that coin, so be it but not someone I would want to entertain.

The purpose of using that coin is for entertainment and not for literally education of the Chinese language period.

[PressureFan]

There are eight interesting characters on Marriage Coin Charms. No translation needed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_coin_charm

[Gordon Meyer]

I have seen this discussed before. My feeling is this...

The characters on the coin used for magic do not have to say anything really. If it does, it should be something clean and innocent.

Unless your audience happens to speak Chinese, in which case it will be an unavoidable distraction. (Just as it would be to have gibberish for English speakers.) Trust me, first-hand experience speaking.

The Sterling Magic Okito coin box, by the way, has interesting and appropriate Chinese writing, or so I've been told by those who would know. The gist was that they were about mystery, power, and rarity.

[I.M. Magician]

I follow you Gordon. Makes sense...

Are you speaking of the pewter Dragon Okito Box Sterling put out in a limited edition years ago?

[Brad Henderson]

In one noted case, the symbols were a combination of the maker’s initials. When someone knocked it off, they did so replicating the initials and that was how they got busted.

[I.M. Magician]

If the symbols say luck, happiness, and things like that, then there is no problem. Someone who can read them may not feel a reaction if it appears to be a souvenir type of coin.

Of course, if the characters are controversial, then we have a problem and a distraction to those who can read them.

If the performer tells the spectators what the characters say, then that would be that!

[Leo Garet]

In one noted case, the symbols were a combination of the maker’s initials. When someone knocked it off, they did so replicating the initials and that was how they got busted.

Here In England, Eddie Gibson did that. All his Chinese coins and coin boxes had EG inscribed on them. Very neatly done. If you didn't know, and many didn't, they were simply an "Oriental" pattern.

[Bob Farmer]

Bill, a friend of mine, told me he had his name translated into Chinese for his coins. I asked him if he had the Chinese read by anyone. He had not. I told him I could read Chinese and the words were actually, "Bill is an idiot." Of course, I was kidding, but I haven't told him that yet.

[Ted M]

For some audience members, it's kinda like you're performing with half dollars with Alfred E Neuman's face on them.

[Gordon Meyer]

I follow you Gordon. Makes sense...

Are you speaking of the pewter Dragon Okito Box Sterling put out in a limited edition years ago?

Yes, the Dragon Okito Box (although I didn't know it was a limited edition!).

[I.M. Magician]

I follow you Gordon. Makes sense...

Are you speaking of the pewter Dragon Okito Box Sterling put out in a limited edition years ago?

Yes, the Dragon Okito Box (although I didn't know it was a limited edition!).

They offered that box for a short time. I have it and like it very much!

[erdnasephile]

I appreciate the comments and the points of view.

One thing I should clarify: when I have had Chinese speakers comment on coins, I truly believe they weren't trying to "bust" me or were unduly fixated on the prop. Rather, when one is a minority in a country, it's natural for our attention to perk up when something that reminds us of our heritage appears. I think that's what prompts the comments from my Chinese spectators--it's a nice touchstone for many of them, which is why I decided to pay more attention to what my props are saying. I agree that only a few will notice and the coins need not be historically accurate replicas, but I feel such things are a feature, not a bug and may be a way to add a more personal connection to a routine for a few spectators.

[Michael Rubinstein]

I have a way of getting around that. As I introduce the coin, I explain that the symbols on the coin tell of famous stories and probverbs from throughout the history of China. I offer to translate. "Save.....on...insurance, switch to..uh, uh, never mind." (Alternative is "Made......in Taiwan"). The joke doesn't explain if the coin is real or not, but helps to remove some of the scrutiny.
Brad Henderson, I believe you are referring to the Presley Guitar CBS set, which was copied by Johnson Products.

[Brad Henderson]

I am.

[Max Maven]

On U. F. Grant’s otherwise splendid Temple Screens, one side shows utterly inappropriate images of the Buddha. The other side has Chinese ideograms, which are poorly rendered, but legible: “No Smoking.”

[Bob Farmer]

I've used a 1930s theme, explaining these are old tokens from Shanghai, China, I picked up in an antique store there. They were used in the opium dens. One token one smoke. Let me show you what you may have seen after a few tokes. For background, see:

http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/2012012 ... 1930s-past

[Chris Aguilar]

I just call them fake (or reproduction) Chinese coins. As long as they don't say something actively offensive, I don't care.

[Leo Garet]

I just call them fake (or reproduction) Chinese coins. As long as they don't say something actively offensive, I don't care.

Good idea.

I haven't used "coins" with lettering on for years, but when I did I mostly used the Eddie Gibson efforts mentioned earlier. I said they were supposed to be Chinese Coins and as I bought them from Kidz-R-Us, they must be genuine.

Nowadays I'd probably say I got them from the Pound Shop.

[erdnasephile]

In one noted case, the symbols were a combination of the maker’s initials. When someone knocked it off, they did so replicating the initials and that was how they got busted.

...Brad Henderson, I believe you are referring to the Presley Guitar CBS set, which was copied by Johnson Products.

That's an interesting (but sad) bit of history. I found a picture of the original Pressley Guitar set:


Here is a picture of my JP CSB coin (circa 1980's)




The characters do appear to match and mean "Fox" and "Hare" in Chinese. I'm not sure how they relate to Mr. Guitar's initials, but there is a Chinese idiom involving a fox and a hare.
https://www.xing.com/communities/posts/ ... 1003802451

[Bill Mullins]

Guitar had other coins in which the marks were the letters "P" and "G", stylized to look like Chinese symbols.

[erdnasephile]

Thanks, Bill--appreciate the info. One thing that is puzzling to me: Why would a company copy the coins with the stylized initials and then after they get caught out, turn around and then copy the coins with the actual Chinese words? That seems weird and illogical.

With regards to Mr. Guitar: here is an interview by Scott Wells https://www.themagicwordpodcast.com/sco ... 2013-day-4