Memorization

[Mike Elizalde]

I learned the Mnemonica stack a few years ago, but due to a lack of practice, have all but forgotten it. I would like to relearn it, with a sound and solid method- what memorization method is most effective?
Thank you-

[Jackpot]

While Mr. Tamariz does not recommend it, I used the Peg system. (In my opinion, his conceptual method is similar to the Peg system.) I memorized Mnemonica in four days, which is much quicker than the 15 to 30 days he estimates. I will add that one reason it probably only took me four days is that I regularly use the Peg System for other purposes. I suspect that since you committed Mnemonica to memory before that you will be able to reacquire it in less time than it took you to learn it the first time.

While waiting for suggestions I would recommend that you begin using any method to memorize the stack.

[Ian Kendall]

If you ask this questions of three magicians, you'll get four answers.

Everyone is different; best bet would be to use whatever method you did the first time round.

[Steve Mills]

While Mr. Tamariz does not recommend it, I used the Peg system. (In my opinion, his conceptual method is similar to the Peg system.) I memorized Mnemonica in four days, which is much quicker than the 15 to 30 days he estimates. .......

Lorayne's Ageless Memory is now available in Kindle format for 2 bucks. Teaches his peg system and many other things. I had the hard copy, but it sure is handy on the Ipad, especially for this price.

https://www.amazon.com/Ageless-Memory-Experts-Prescription-Razor-Sharp-ebook/dp/B003MZ057S/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=harry+lorayne&qid=1608468546&sr=8-2

[chetday]

Mike, I created and memorized my own stack back in the late 80's and had a lot of fun with it for several years. I couldn't believe how fluid and competent I eventually got with that stack after continually reinforcing the memorized run of cards on a daily basis.

Unfortunately, my late wife got ill in the early 90's and I had to pretty much drop magic for a lot of years.

It's interesting you asked your question because it's only in the past week that I decided to revisit my memorized stack, thinking I could relearn it in a few hours since I once knew it so perfectly. Well, the 73-year old brain between my ears quickly revealed that relearning the stack in a half hour was a pipe dream on the level of my chances of twerking with Miley Cyrus on America's Got Talent in 2021.

Happily, I'm stubborn and retired and I have time on my hands these days, so I've been working on relearning the stack. For the past several days I've been attacking this job by re-memorizing my stack in batches of five cards. I have several note cards in secret places around the house where I live with my little dog. On the note cards, I've written out the stack in abbreviated form.

For example, the first five cards -- 10C 4H 8D QS AC -- are written on the first line, then the second five cards, beneath the first five, and so on.

As I pass my days trying to remember where I hid the note cards, I review the clumps of five. I'm almost a week into this effort, which I admit I'm not tackling with the obsessive behavior that would most likely produce much better results, but relearning the stack in this way is working for me and I expect to have it down for the New Year's Eve celebrations at Shirley's Bar & Grill... oh wait, we're not allowed to go to bars and grills this year. Well, I guess I'll do a couple of tricks for my little dog at midnight and then have a tall glass of Geritol and psyllium husks for fiber.

Anyway, this is the approach I'm using for the same task you've taken on. Good luck!

[Ted M]

Memory works differently for different people.

How do you memorize phone numbers, house numbers, other information?

Do you note directional patterns on a keypad? (I had a high school friend whose number was 638-4569, which was 638-"across and down".)

Do you note relationships between the digits? (A friend's house number was 8115: 8 plus the middle digits was 10, and dividing by the summed middle digits yielded 5; it was a pleasantly formed number.)

Have you ever memorized a poem?

When reading a book, does visual/positional information accompany recall of other things? ("That's on a left page, kinda in the middle".) I have this, so when learning I wish I had written the stack numbers on the card faces instead of their backs!

My wife can't remember dates or times to save her life. But any art process or procedural crafting instruction that she sees once is permanently locked in her brain. She also has superb recall of music, but terrible recall of lyrics or song titles.

So memory works differently for different people, and for different tasks. Juan gives many methods in Mnemonica, including a great one involving drawing pictures on the card faces. Think about what you know about how memory works for you, and choose a compatible technique.

[Tom Gilbert]

Mnemonics and peg systems just don't work for me, I've tried numerous times. I need a stack that uses rules/math and then that blends into memorization. Haven't played with a stack in quite a while though.

[AJM]

There’s a great app, Memo Deck, which I used to learn the Mnemonica stack. I’m fortunate to have a fairly good memory so maybe that helped too.

Essentially you learn the stack gradually by memorising the stack in blocks of 5 or 6 cards.

Also includes nice little features which tests by card or stack number and a time trial to aid with recall speed.

But agreed, it’s all down to the individual and what works for them.

Andrew

[JHostler]

Mnemonics and peg systems just don't work for me, I've tried numerous times. I need a stack that uses rules/math and then that blends into memorization. Haven't played with a stack in quite a while though.

Same here. Without Joyal's book, I doubt I ever would have committed a stack to memory. (And, since memorization is jumpstarted with a set of rules, you have a light safety net if/when memory fades or fails...)

[iainduncan]

Here's a vote for the peg system. The good thing about the peg system is that if you have a hiccup, you can always get back to it with a brief stall. A misconception is that if you use pegs, you will always need pegs, but that's not what happens. You get it down cold anyway (like your times tables) and then you only have to go to the pegs if you blank. If I haven't reviewed the stack in a while, I just have to go to my pegs, and I have it back in a half hour of review. The thing that's great about pegs compared to the story or song or roman road is that they are truly random access. There's no hard part, it doesn't matter what number you start on at all. And then you have this darn handy card peg systems at your finger tips for other contexts too!

I really recommend making actual flash cards too. I took a deck and wrote numbers on the backs of one side. Then practice reviewing in all kinds of orders.

[iainduncan]

I will say that it *really* makes a difference what your pegs are. You need to spend some time figuring out pegs that are easy to recall and have significance to you.

[Steve Mills]

While Mr. Tamariz does not recommend it, I used the Peg system. (In my opinion, his conceptual method is similar to the Peg system.) I memorized Mnemonica in four days, which is much quicker than the 15 to 30 days he estimates. .......

Lorayne's Ageless Memory is now available in Kindle format for 2 bucks. Teaches his peg system and many other things. I had the hard copy, but it sure is handy on the Ipad, especially for this price.

https://www.amazon.com/Ageless-Memory-Experts-Prescription-Razor-Sharp-ebook/dp/B003MZ057S/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=harry+lorayne&qid=1608468546&sr=8-2

Sorry, but the book is back to $10 now.

[Max Maven]

Mnemonics and peg systems just don't work for me, I've tried numerous times. I need a stack that uses rules/math and then that blends into memorization. Haven't played with a stack in quite a while though.

Same here. Without Joyal's book, I doubt I ever would have committed a stack to memory. (And, since memorization is jumpstarted with a set of rules, you have a light safety net if/when memory fades or fails...)

Of course mnemonic systems work. You learned how to link images (that are now arbitrary) with phonetic sounds, including variations — which is how you are able to read this text.

[JHostler]

Mnemonics and peg systems just don't work for me, I've tried numerous times. I need a stack that uses rules/math and then that blends into memorization. Haven't played with a stack in quite a while though.

Same here. Without Joyal's book, I doubt I ever would have committed a stack to memory. (And, since memorization is jumpstarted with a set of rules, you have a light safety net if/when memory fades or fails...)

Of course mnemonic systems work. You learned how to link images (that are now arbitrary) with phonetic sounds, including variations — which is how you are able to read this text.

Yes, but the question seems to be what/which tactic is more efficacious for the purpose of associating 52 numbers with 52 cards. Different learning modalities... different strokes...

[Leo Garet]

Of course mnemonic systems work. You learned how to link images (that are now arbitrary) with phonetic sounds, including variations — which is how you are able to read this text.

Well, that settles it. Must be true. And yet..........

Here I am with no recollection at all of how I learned to read.

[iainduncan]

Something to think about for people working on memorization: we are not after the same goal as memory athletes doing speed deck memorization. They only need the sequence, so they (from what I've read) will mostly use a path or story based system that is linear. If your story system or memory palace doesn't let you start easily on any number, it's not a great system for memdeck. That's where the "Major System" peg approach in the Aronson book shines, it's really no harder to start from any card or number than any other. I found what has worked for me is a combination of images that are like the story images (a picture based on the card, sort of like what Aragon has in his book) and the Major system pegs. I have 52 composite images, with more than just two elements. Two elements are the pegs from major system (number and card) and smooshed in there is a picture of the card itself and the number. Usually, I just remember the card and the number, but the pegs are there when I need them.

An example might help: Mnemonica 20 - Jack of Hearts.
- my peg for 20 is "Nose" (major system 2=n, s=10)
- my peg for JH is "Headed" (major system Hearts and dt * dt)
- my picture is the Jack of Hearts, with two heads, each with a giant nose, and the number 20 on his clothes.

hope that helps..

[Ian Kendall]

Funnily enough, in my stack the Jack of Hearts is 21.

I just remember that the Jack of Hearts is 21. Much less effort...

[iainduncan]

As I mentioned earlier, I do not normally have to go to the pegs. Normally it's just "there", like we know 8x8 is 64. But the pegs are there if one needs them, so I think if one is struggling with the memorization, it's a good tool to have in the pocket. (And you can then also use them whenever you want to display memorizing a stack of cards in a hurry, or to memorize a five card hand or whatever).

[Tom Gilbert]

Mnemonics and peg systems just don't work for me, I've tried numerous times. I need a stack that uses rules/math and then that blends into memorization. Haven't played with a stack in quite a while though.

Same here. Without Joyal's book, I doubt I ever would have committed a stack to memory. (And, since memorization is jumpstarted with a set of rules, you have a light safety net if/when memory fades or fails...)

Of course mnemonic systems work. You learned how to link images (that are now arbitrary) with phonetic sounds, including variations — which is how you are able to read this text.

I have no doubt they work successfully for many, whether Harry's system or a different one. Not all are wired the same way. One size does not fit all.

[Bob Farmer]

Though I learned the Nikola system while in grade school, I don't use a memorized deck at all anymore. However, what I do use is memorizing, say, five selected cards in order. To do that, I have given each card a name. For example, the AH is AHab, the eight of spades is EinStein. You just put the words in a goofy sentence (e.g. Ahab dropped a white whale on Einstein, etc.). Note that in this system, unlike others, each name keys the value then the suit. In the Aronson stack, it's the other way around (e.g., the 9C is CaNnibal) and I always found that confusing.

I have updated this system and it will be fully explained in The Bammo Flim-Flam CONglomeration to be published in 2021.

[Jackpot]

@ Bob Farmer: Your system is better for you and will be better for some others. I treat the associations recommended by others as examples. Creating your own associations is always a stronger tool to help with memorization than relying on someone else's associations. Creating a mental picture that includes exaggeration, violence and/or sex also helps. The mental picture you created with Ahab, the white whale and Einstein certainly has exaggeration and violence. I suppose the more prurient among us will be able to include the third item.
I always enjoy your books and articles. I look forward to your next publication.

[AJM]

Very much ‘horses for courses’ as regards each individual’s approach.

My approach is very similar to Mr Kendall’s

[Richard Kaufman]

Jennings used a system for memorizing five cards on the fly during many tricks. I published one in Richard's Almanac in 1983, I think. You just repeat the values of the five cards to yourself as a mantra, such as "Five, Ten, Jack, Ace, Four," over and over again. If you have two cards of the same value, you substitute the suit for the repeat of the value.

[Ian Kendall]

If you have two cards of the same value, you substitute the suit for the repeat of the value.

Was he remembering the cards in order, or just the values?

If he's going for order, the suit replacement wouldn't work if the cards are not next to each other (May have answered my own question there...)

[Richard Kaufman]

He was remembering the order. And it worked for him.

[CampBrand]

As stated earlier, everyone is going to have an opinion or three on this one.....

I decided to tackle Tamariz this year...started with Memory Arts. To my surprise, in 3 half-hour sessions, I had the 52 locked in with about 95% accuracy. HOWEVER, it's not automatic, it requires some processing....

That processing is speeding up, but I'm finding that rote memorization is now helping to lock in more immediate / instant recall + ordering. Mem Arts feels like a fantastic fallback -- and it reminds me of school days' "understanding the math versus just memorizing the formula." Should I go blank, the "process" or "processing" seems firmly entrenched...oddly permanent...even if there is a bit of a "mental math" slowing component.

I have no issues with "order" -- meaning my mind doesn't need to "travel" in order get to a certain card...the locations are locked in and seemingly independent of each other...

That said, I'm not sure this will take me to the place of instant, automatic recall that certain routines require -- and frankly, the reason to invest the time in the first place.

My two cents...thus far...and it's early yet...

Happy New Year, all.

[Jackpot]

Memorizing a stack is one thing. Having it automatic is another. One advantage I found in using a Mnemonic system is that I could, and still can, practice the memorized deck without cards, tape recorders, etc. After the deck is automatic I no longer had to use the pegs.

Remembering a few cards during a trick, a sequential stack, and a memorized deck are all different tools. One is like remembering that c-a-t spells cat, another like reciting the alphabet, and the other like using the 70 phonograms of the English language. Great things have been done with all three, and so has a lot of dross.

I am not saying that one tool is superior to another. But I do know, based on what you are trying to accomplish, that one can be more appropriate than the others. I also know that no one was born knowing that the 21st card in a stack is the jack of hearts (or the eight of diamonds, three of hearts, queen of diamonds, three of spades, ...). One had to memorize the stack before he could say: I just remember that this card is in that place. It is less effort now, but I have no doubt that a lot of effort was expended getting to this point.

A memorized deck requires time and work before it becomes automatic. But if you have a use and/or are interested it is time well spent. It took far more time and effort to master reading than it will require to master a memorized deck.

[Ian Kendall]

Here's a good drill for securing your stack.

I tend to do this at night, as a sleep aid, but it also works on long drives. Start with the ace of clubs, and then recall the stack number for all the clubs. Then do the same for the other suits.

When you have done that a couple of times, recall all four aces in CHaSeD order (or whatever), and then all the twos, and so on.

Run through them a couple of times a night, and you'll be solid in no time.

[MagicbyAlfred]

Here's a good drill for securing your stack.

I tend to do this at night, as a sleep aid, but it also works on long drives. Start with the ace of clubs, and then recall the stack number for all the clubs. Then do the same for the other suits.

When you have done that a couple of times, recall all four aces in CHaSeD order (or whatever), and then all the twos, and so on.

Run through them a couple of times a night, and you'll be solid in no time.

That sounds like a very effective system for memorizing the stack. That said, the most vivid memories that I have from long drives are seeing the flashing blue lights in my rearview mirror...

[Jack Shalom]

Note that in this system, unlike others, each name keys the value then the suit. In the Aronson stack, it's the other way around (e.g., the 9C is CaNnibal) and I always found that confusing.

Yes, exactly, and that's why I used your system to memorize Aronson. I always recommend your system to people if they ask about a peg system for cards.

[Bob Farmer]

A full explanation of my system with updates will be in the forthcoming book, The Bammo Flim-Flam CONglomeration to be published by Kaufman and Company in a few months.

Also, a system for setting up any memorized or stacked deck in under two and a half minutes (or faster) is contained in:

https://www.lybrary.com/the-bammo-tarod ... 23866.html

[iainduncan]

Memorizing a stack is easy: get a dog.

I like to come up with random drill sequences while running the dog: up a suit, up and down by twos, or threes, round the clock (ie AAAA22223333), do people's addresses, phone numbers (an old music ear training trick..), license plate numbers. And also super helpful is neighbour cards on the above, like what are the upper and lower neighbour for a random 2 digit number you run by.

And then there's all that other good stuff that comes from running a dog.... I suppose you could always just run without the dog too, but she sure is a good motivator.

[iainduncan]

I also agree with Jack. If I make a second stack part of my bag, I will probably come up with a second peg system too that is the other way around.

[Daryl was Greatest]

I learned the Mnemonica stack a few years ago, but due to a lack of practice, have all but forgotten it. I would like to relearn it, with a sound and solid method- what memorization method is most effective?
Thank you-

Hey Mike,
I learned the Mnemonica stack by first starting with an App on the phone I downloaded for free. I went 1/4 of the deck at a time before adding another 1/4. So I started with the first 13 and then added the next 13, so on, so on. It was an app that would show the card or number and then you could flip it like a flash card. I got a small foundation and then I was reading Harry Lorayne's Super Power Memory book, and he basically described a method for memorizing an entire shuffled deck using a peg type system.
I thought why not just apply it to Mnemonica? So I learned the system and applied Mnemonica stack to it. The only problem is, I can almost always eventually recall something, but it can be slow sometimes if you have to "dig" for the image you are looking for.

I think probably the best way is just straight memorization where you connect the number to the card and vice versa, probably without any imagery. That way you can recall it instantly without thinking. This is pretty much the way that Tamariz describes in his Mnemonica book. He has a system of singing and what not. I had the idea also to write the numbers on each card in the back, front and back and play with that deck as a practice deck. I think he might have described something similar in the book?

Anyways, there are also other systems out there which pretty much branch off from the peg system. For example the Memory Arts book that Vanishing Magic released. I don't know if any of these are improved methods or not from what I originally learned from Harry, or if it's the same stuff.

Anyways, I wrote a more detailed post at https://ulearnmagic.com/mnemonica-stack-order-juan-tamariz/ if that helps, but I pretty much say most of what I said here. I don't expose anything that's not already common knowledge or available elsewhere. Just some tips and resources for anyone in magic and my thoughts on it.

Hope this helps, good luck.