A question about card magic

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
Philippe Noël
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A question about card magic

Postby Philippe Noël » December 18th, 2020, 1:55 pm

What do you think are the latest findings in card magic?

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Q. Kumber
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Re: A question about card magic

Postby Q. Kumber » December 18th, 2020, 2:27 pm

My opinion: There are way too many card tricks and not enough card magic. Old-timers understood 'card magic' much more than than the average magician today.

Joshua Jay's article in the last issue of MAGIC has an article on what laypeople like in magic (with a special section on cards).

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: A question about card magic

Postby MagicbyAlfred » December 19th, 2020, 7:20 am

Philippe, it is an intriguing question, but would you please explain more specifically what you mean by the term "findings"?

Philippe Noël
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Re: A question about card magic

Postby Philippe Noël » December 19th, 2020, 8:33 am

Hi Alfred,
I use the term findings because I like to compare magic with scientific research.
When discoveries are made in science, science evolves.
I think that's the same with magic.
When Alex Elmsley created the Elmsley count, Dai Vernon created Twisting the aces.
When John Bannon created his Discrepant Fat Block Switch, John Carey created his S.W.I Interchange and his Stealth Assembly.
When Simon Aronson created his Undo influence principle, Darwin Ortiz created his trick called Hard Target.
I think that new techniques, new methods make new effects possible.
So what do you think are the new techniques, new methods that could create new effects ?

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: A question about card magic

Postby MagicbyAlfred » December 19th, 2020, 10:36 am

Philippe, you make an excellent point and analogy. I think this is something common to all art forms, e.g. composers/songwriters being influenced by what other songwriters have created, and then adapting, modifying and/or expanding upon it. I must confess that I am not up on the newest techniques and methods in card magic. My library is comprised of older books, and I feel like I have not even hit the tip of the magical iceberg in terms of learning and perfecting the treasures in the books I already own.

I am constantly striving to make the moves I do know smoother and better and am continually looking to devise subtleties and modes of misdirection to make things undetectable. To this day, I have seen very few magicians, for example, who can execute a double turnover or double lift cleanly and smoothly and in a manner that does not look like a "move" and invite suspicion. Same goes for palming and passes and other staples of card magic.

I think that, in general, magicians are always delving into new moves and tricks, not having mastered the ones they already know. I have been as guilty as anyone of this, and the unfortunate by-product of continuing in such a cycle is that it breeds mediocrity - the proverbial Jack of all spades (I mean trades :lol: ) and master of none. So personally, I devote my time these days to refining and trying to perfect what I already know.

Jackpot
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Re: A question about card magic

Postby Jackpot » December 19th, 2020, 2:15 pm

Q. Kumber wrote:My opinion: There are way too many card tricks and not enough card magic. Old-timers understood 'card magic' much more than than the average magician today.

Joshua Jay's article in the last issue of MAGIC has an article on what laypeople like in magic (with a special section on cards).


I agree with your opinion. Although I've heard this said by magic enthusiasts more that once: "The most interesting thing about a magic trick is the method," I still cringe. I also cringe when receiving this complement after a show: "You're not just a magician. You're an entertainer." While I appreciate the complement on one level, it saddens me that the person making the complement is surprised that I can be entertaining and a magician.

Concerning the article:

http://www.magicconvention.com/wp-conte ... Survey.pdf

http://www.magicconvention.com/video/joshua-jay/
Not the one who created the Potter Index.

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Paco Nagata
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Re: A question about card magic

Postby Paco Nagata » December 19th, 2020, 6:46 pm

Taking into account that Card Magic may be at least 300 or 400 years old, I have thought that (maybe) everything that can be invented about card magic sleights and subtleties, has been already invented as nowadays it is etremely difficult "to get a latest findings."
I mean that every NEW thing in card magic actually derives clearly from a certain generic old idea. So, nowadays, NEW THINGS are actually a GREAT combination of those great old ideas (gimmicks, sleights, subtleties...) and MISDIRECTION, which happens to be maybe the oldest magic subtlety.
Alfred said he strives to do sleights smoother and better and is continually looking to devise subtleties and modes of misdirection to make things undetectable.
So, he is always looking for something NEW; a better way to use the old ideas.

I think that the "latest finding" is ANY great card routine you create by using a great combination of old ideas and subtleties.
"The Passion of an Amateur Card Magician"
https://bit.ly/2lXdO2O
"La pasion de un cartómago aficionado"
https://bit.ly/2kkjpjn

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: A question about card magic

Postby MagicbyAlfred » December 20th, 2020, 7:38 am

Paco Nagata wrote:I think that the "latest finding" is ANY great card routine you create by using a great combination of old ideas and subtleties.


Paco, that is an insightful and well-articulated point.

Dr. Solka
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Re: A question about card magic

Postby Dr. Solka » December 20th, 2020, 8:01 am

"So what do you think are the new techniques, new methods that could create new effects ?"
Lightning memorizing of a free shuffled deck and then to perform memdeck effects. (Lightning means under a minute.)

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Paco Nagata
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Re: A question about card magic

Postby Paco Nagata » December 20th, 2020, 4:43 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:
Paco Nagata wrote:I think that the "latest finding" is ANY great card routine you create by using a great combination of old ideas and subtleties.


Paco, that is an insightful and well-articulated point.

Thank you very much, Alfred ^_^
Dr. Solka wrote:"So what do you think are the new techniques, new methods that could create new effects ?"
Lightning memorizing of a free shuffled deck and then to perform memdeck effects. (Lightning means under a minute.)

Indeed, it would be a really NEW FINDING.
For the time being I have only experienced some switching deck actions in order to "get a shuffle deck immediately memorised" ;-)
"The Passion of an Amateur Card Magician"
https://bit.ly/2lXdO2O
"La pasion de un cartómago aficionado"
https://bit.ly/2kkjpjn

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Q. Kumber
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Re: A question about card magic

Postby Q. Kumber » December 21st, 2020, 7:24 am

The late Kevin Fox knew Peter Kane very well. One day Kevin asked Peter for his thoughts about a handling of Jazz Aces that had been published by a well known card magician.

Kane's reply was, "Do they not realise that I have thought through all variations and rejected all those they have come up with even before I released mine."

Technically known as Reverse Progress, or in the vernacular, "How to f*ck up a good trick."

Leo Garet
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Re: A question about card magic

Postby Leo Garet » December 22nd, 2020, 7:44 am

Q. Kumber wrote:The late Kevin Fox knew Peter Kane very well. One day Kevin asked Peter for his thoughts about a handling of Jazz Aces that had been published by a well known card magician.

Kane's reply was, "Do they not realise that I have thought through all variations and rejected all those they have come up with even before I released mine."

Technically known as Reverse Progress, or in the vernacular, "How to f*ck up a good trick."


I knew Peter quite well, considering we didn't live next door each other. When I had a proper job and worked the graveyard shift, Peter would phone me from his nightshift home to chat about this and that. He would frequently mention all the "improvements" people made to his routines. He never had any problem with people adjusting a few bits and bobs to suit their own their own handling skills, but the rest, well he often remarked as Q. Kumber notes.

I also knew Joe Dignam, who along with Bob Ostin, who I also knew slightly, was another of Peter’s Friends.

A powerful down-to-earth-trinity.

Usually the first words Peter uttered whenever we met were: “Have you heard Such-And-Such?” Such-And-Such was always a jazz guitar player

I knew Kevin and when we weren’t talking guitars he, Brian Glover and I would often discuss Peter’s stuff. Brian would disappear for a cup of tea when the guitars appeared. And immediately reappear when the guitars were silent.

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erdnasephile
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Re: A question about card magic

Postby erdnasephile » December 22nd, 2020, 10:11 am

Q. Kumber wrote:The late Kevin Fox knew Peter Kane very well. One day Kevin asked Peter for his thoughts about a handling of Jazz Aces that had been published by a well known card magician.

Kane's reply was, "Do they not realise that I have thought through all variations and rejected all those they have come up with even before I released mine."

Technically known as Reverse Progress, or in the vernacular, "How to f*ck up a good trick."


My Kane's reply reminded me of this essay by Whit Hadyn:

https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/vie ... opic=43500

I think Harry Lorayne has also expressed similar sentiments in terms of how many tricks have been killed by "improvements".


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