Floating Aces - Cervon

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magicfish
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Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby magicfish » July 4th, 2019, 11:26 pm

Gents,
I have always loved the Elevator Card plot.
Martin Nash's Ups and Downs has been a favourite impromptu effect for many years.
I have always been intrigued by Cervon's Floating Aces. I have played with it off and on for decades.
I'm wondering if anyone here performs it, or has performed it, or perhaps saw Cervon ever do it?
Thanks guys.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 5th, 2019, 1:35 am

Where is it published?
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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby jason156 » July 5th, 2019, 2:41 am

"Where is it published?"

Ultra Cervon, page 9 ...

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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Denis Behr » July 5th, 2019, 2:58 am

You can see Cervon perform it on one of his videos: https://llepub.com/index.php?main_page= ... cts_id=464

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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Skmayhew2 » July 5th, 2019, 9:27 pm

Not Cervon and not English but ....

I’d say it gets difficult to maintain any conviction in what all those face down cards are supposed to be.

https://youtu.be/axMgdVauemA

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erdnasephile
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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby erdnasephile » July 6th, 2019, 12:33 pm

Skmayhew2 wrote:Not Cervon and not English but ....

I’d say it gets difficult to maintain any conviction in what all those face down cards are supposed to be.


Agreed. This is heresy: I sometimes feel the same loss of conviction even when I watch a classic ace assembly such as "Jazz Aces".

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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 6th, 2019, 1:46 pm

Confusion is not magic.
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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Pete McCabe » July 6th, 2019, 5:20 pm

This is not heresy. It's just common sense.

This is heresy: Jazz Aces is a bad plot. I've seen it done at least 10 times, always by excellent performers, and it's always confusing. Halfway through there is a pile of three cards, where the aces are gathering, and two other face down aces on the table, and some cards in your hand, and what is happening? The way the aces are laid out in t-formation is not relevant to the trick and makes everything visually confusing. It is a very convoluted version of the basic effect of aces magically gathering in a single pile.

Worst of all, it almost completely conceals the strongest feature of the routine, which is the underlying story that you are getting all the aces in your hand in a game of poker. The further any Assembly gets from that archetype, the harder it is for the audience to care.

Of course, I've seen it done by performers better than I, so there must be something to it. But I really wonder what the effect is to a layperson.

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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Jonathan Townsend » July 6th, 2019, 6:03 pm

Poker hands usually have five cards. And a straight beats four aces. To expect an audience to be ignorant of such things... though i'm not sure that was Peter Kane's presentation.
Further off topic, have you seen the version of jazz aces where the other packet of four cards melts away leaving just the four aces at the end?

Yeah that's a lot of conviction and credulity to risk for the floating aces. The Frank Garcia simplified version seemed to work pretty well.
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Brad Jeffers
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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Brad Jeffers » July 7th, 2019, 3:02 am

Jonathan Townsend wrote: a straight beats four aces
Where do you play poker at Jonathan ?

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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Jonathan Townsend » July 7th, 2019, 4:06 am

Brad Jeffers wrote:
Jonathan Townsend wrote: a straight beats four aces
Where do you play poker at Jonathan ?
So 2H,3H,4H,5H,6H does not beat four aces?
I'm kinda wondering what would happen if someone showed four of a kind but no fifth card in a game. What do you think?

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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby jason156 » July 7th, 2019, 7:04 am

"So 2H,3H,4H,5H,6H does not beat four aces?"

It does, but that's not a straight …. it's a straight flush.

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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Bob Farmer » July 7th, 2019, 7:23 am

Jazz Aces works well if you use giant cards cut into four pieces. See my routine somewhere in Pabular. A performer won a close-up contest with this routine, so it can't be all bad.

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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Leo Garet » July 7th, 2019, 10:47 am

Jonathan Townsend wrote:….."though i'm not sure that was Peter Kane's presentation".

No it wasn't.

And to say that "Jazz Aces" is a bad plot is, well, what's the word...? Not sure offhand, but nonsense will do. No, I'll temper that a bit: incorrect. Unless ace assemblies in general are bad. And then like everything else, it's a matter of opinion. Which it is anyway.

I'm not as fond of assemblies as I once was, but every once in a now and then, I revive "Jazz Aces". I've never used a gambling theme with any ace assembly, let alone "Jazz Aces". There are more than enough gambling tricks around, some of which involve a royal flush and the rest of the pack.

If I ever do a less-than-a-full-pack gambling trick I opt for "The Ten Card Poker Deal". I think somebody published a book on that once.

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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby magicfish » July 7th, 2019, 11:06 am

I’ve heard it is a very good book.
@Bob, Interesting. I’ll dig out my
Pabulars.
I’ve been dreaming about how this looked in Cervon’s hands for decades. I may have to look into the dvds.

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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Paco Nagata » July 17th, 2019, 11:15 am

Skmayhew2 wrote:Not Cervon and not English but ....

I’d say it gets difficult to maintain any conviction in what all those face down cards are supposed to be.

https://youtu.be/axMgdVauemA


I love "tomosanb" Youtube chanel. He's a really good performer, and also like Bruce Cervon's works in general, but I agree that this routine lack of conviction about the cards. I personally wonuldn't add this routine to my repertoire.
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Paco Nagata
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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Paco Nagata » July 17th, 2019, 11:39 am

Regarding to Peter Kane's Jazz Aces, I've always like it a lot, up to the point that I conceived a metaphorical story for it that had always a good reaction among my people:
Three astronauts went to the moon (AC, AH, AD) and one of them kept in the suppy boat (AS).
When the astronauts were going to come back, noticed that the rocket was irreparably broken. So they were condemned people by the fate. However, an experimental tele-transport devise in the supply boat that used the AS was tried with the hope it works... Finally, that experimental tele-transport machine worked and they could safe their lifes.
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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Thomas Van Aken » August 6th, 2019, 7:37 am

Hi,
Regarding "Jazz Aces": Mike Skinner used two sets of identical cards (jokers and blank cards) allowing to show the first two jokers before and after travelling, increasing conviction IMO.
Br,
Th.

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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Degio » August 7th, 2019, 11:17 am

Paco Nagata wrote:Regarding to Peter Kane's Jazz Aces, I've always like it a lot, up to the point that I conceived a metaphorical story for it that had always a good reaction among my people:
Three astronauts went to the moon (AC, AH, AD) and one of them kept in the suppy boat (AS).
When the astronauts were going to come back, noticed that the rocket was irreparably broken. So they were condemned people by the fate. However, an experimental tele-transport devise in the supply boat that used the AS was tried with the hope it works... Finally, that experimental tele-transport machine worked and they could safe their lifes.

Cool. Not far away from Jazz Fusion's plot (John Guastaferro - Brainstorm Vol.2), where four Jacks vanish into a black hole.
One of my favourite tricks...

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Paco Nagata
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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Paco Nagata » August 7th, 2019, 3:53 pm

Degio wrote:Cool. Not far away from Jazz Fusion's plot (John Guastaferro - Brainstorm Vol.2), where four Jacks vanish into a black hole.
One of my favourite tricks...


Nice to know that! I didn't know about "Jazz Fusion" by John Guastaferro. Thank you for the information. I don't know much about Guastaferro's magic, but one of my favourite tricks by him is "Mr. E Takes a Stroll" from "One Degree".

By the way, regarding a black hole metaphor, I also considered that but for a different famous plot: "The Cannibal Cards."
I love stories in card magic, but I always disliked the cannibal metaphor, so I thought about consider the "cannibal cards" as a black hole that gobbles down three astronauts as well. Finally they come back through a white hole! (in the middle of the deck).
For more detail about this story by the Cannibal Cards plot feel free to have a look to "The Passion of an Amateur Card Magician" PDF, below in the link (p. 295 "The Black Hole"). Of course I don't explain the secrets, because it's not my trick, but I explain the details of the story adapted to the original plot. I consider it quite interesting for those who likes metaphorical stories, like me.
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erdnasephile
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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby erdnasephile » December 4th, 2022, 8:50 am

Not sure how I ended up on this old thread, but I rewatched the video and it impressed upon me something RK has said before: pinky breaks aren't nearly as invulnerable as many of us think they are.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 4th, 2022, 12:56 pm

Right thumb breaks are the worst offenders, which is why Jennings use of the Verdnase break is so important.
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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby MagicbyAlfred » December 4th, 2022, 3:57 pm

erdnasephile wrote:Not sure how I ended up on this old thread, but I rewatched the video and it impressed upon me something RK has said before: pinky breaks aren't nearly as invulnerable as many of us think they are.


Well, yes, pinky breaks, in and of themselves, are not invulnerable. But the same can be said for virtually any sleight (e.g. double lifts, top changes, palming, replacements, bottom deals, certainly passes, if one chooses to use them, and on and on). The level of invulnerability is directly proportional to how well the sleight is executed by the individual magician, and this includes the preparation for the sleight, the timing (when something is done matters hugely), the misdirection (including the patter, gestures, and other bodily movements), the angles, naturalness, and, of course, the smoothness and cleanliness of the execution itself. When done correctly, there should obviously be no flashes (videoing oneself and using the mirror are tremendously helpful), and the audience shouldn't have the slightest clue that a break is being held, or even the least suspicion that the magician "did something," even if they don't know what it was.

If the sleight is not then invulnerable under that test, then more study and practice is needed, and it shouldn't be used until if and when it is. As Erdnase observed, sleights should be executed "in such a manner that the most critical observer would not even suspect, let alone detect, the action." It's a demanding standard, but for anyone who genuinely wants to improve (including myself), it is one well worth aspiring to.

***As Richard pointed out to me, I originally posted this comment in the other active thread with Bruce Cervon's name attached to it. Sorry for any confusion I caused.

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erdnasephile
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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby erdnasephile » December 4th, 2022, 4:13 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Right thumb breaks are the worst offenders, which is why Jennings use of the Verdnase break is so important.


^^ This.
Who can conceal a right thumb break? (Nobody.)

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Floating Aces - Cervon

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 5th, 2022, 11:52 am

Actually, with great effort, a right thumb break CAN be concealed, but the physical work involved is a fat pain the rump and takes too much attention.
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