Cups and balls starting point

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
DanV
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Location: Minneapolis, MN

Cups and balls starting point

Postby DanV » March 28th, 2004, 5:36 pm

I recently saw John Carney lecturing and was reminded how powerful the classics are, when properly presented.

I'd like to start working on solid routine, and wonder if any of you can point me to a good, classic routine.

I have Dai Vernon's Book of Magic, the Books of Wonder, as well as Tarbell. I realize that these contain great routines, but do you agree that they are good starting points?

Is Ammar's book a good investment? I seem to remember some controversy over it...why was that?

I've heard about Ramsey's routine with ice cream cones...is that in print?

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can give.

Dan

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Cups and balls starting point

Postby Dustin Stinett » March 28th, 2004, 5:59 pm

Originally posted by Dan Villanti:
Is Ammar's book a good investment? I seem to remember some controversy over it...why was that?
Dan,

The only controversy I recall was that many folks really hated the highlighted text and arrows pointing to the pertinent illustrations, which renders the book somewhat ugly. I am one of those. But, once you get past this, its a very good and fairly comprehensive work. It has rudimentary routines that will give you the starting point you desire. So the answer, in my opinion, is yes, its a good investment.

Dustin

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Cups and balls starting point

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 28th, 2004, 6:25 pm

That's "ice cream CUPS" for the Ramsay routine, not "ice cream cones." :)
A good place to start is Bruce Elliott's book, Classic Secrets of Magic. You'll find some excellent material therein. No need to spend big bucks on books, videos, or fancy cups. Just a few dollars on Elliott's book will give you everything you need.
And, if you have Stars of Magic, Dai Vernon's routine with the drinking glasses wrapped in newspapers is often overlooked.
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DanV
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Re: Cups and balls starting point

Postby DanV » March 29th, 2004, 6:56 am

Thank you, gentlemen.

I have "Stars" and forgot about Vernon's routine there. I don't have Elliott's book (although I do have some others of his), so I'll start looking around.

Dustin, I appreciate the clarification about Ammar's book. I've glanced at it and also disliked the highlighting (which is why I never bought used books in college :) )

Dan

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Pete Biro
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Re: Cups and balls starting point

Postby Pete Biro » March 29th, 2004, 10:33 am

Get the Cups and Balls video from www.stevensmagaic.com and you will see a great variety of ways to go.

From the classic, and hard to beat, Vernon routine to the overlooked and I believe the most entertaining in close situations, Johnny Paul routine.

Blatant plug for Paul routine cups!
Stay tooned.

Jeff Eline
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Re: Cups and balls starting point

Postby Jeff Eline » March 29th, 2004, 11:18 am

Bit of a typo on Pete's URL HERE\'s the correct site :)

DanV
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Re: Cups and balls starting point

Postby DanV » March 29th, 2004, 11:32 am

Thanks Jeff, I got it :)

And thanks to you too, Pete. I'd like to see a comparison video like that.

Dan

Guest

Re: Cups and balls starting point

Postby Guest » March 29th, 2004, 12:41 pm

One of the best 'starting points' is the Hampton Ridge (now Fun Inc.) "25 Tricks with the Cups and Balls"

For a $10 vid you can't go wrong; it covers all the "basics."

I always reccomend this series of tapes to beginners (they also have vids that cover; Thumb Tip Magic, Svengali Deck, Stripper Deck, Linking Rings and more.)

Google a bit, they're easy to find.

Conus
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Re: Cups and balls starting point

Postby Conus » April 18th, 2004, 2:45 pm

Actually, the Hampton Ridge video is quite good.

Produced in 1997, it features Troy Hooser...and one of the moves is true Hooser style (when the 3rd ball appear on top of the cup).

Guest

Re: Cups and balls starting point

Postby Guest » April 18th, 2004, 4:09 pm

At first I liked the Ammar book but on closer inspection found that I didn't. It didn't seem to be well written. I think it would be difficult to learn from. I understand his videos are better.

The cups and balls is a wonderful trick. I have only just started to learn and do it after procrastinating for about 40 years. I think it was Jean Hugard who said that you are not a magician unless you can do this trick. I have always had a complex about this since I read it. I thought I must learn the trick one day just to
get Hugard off my back.

Old Hugard was right. I now wish I had learned the thing earlier. I hope I live long enough to do it a few times.

It is a truly wonderful piece of magic. I have worked out a very simple routine and have incorporated something I read in the Genii magazine about the way Malini did it. He ate the balls. This goes over great as I knew instinctively it would when I read the description.

I am getting laughs and gasps at every phase of the routine, not just the climax of the final loads.And I can't even do the trick properly yet.

I am really irritated with myself now for not learning the trick earlier. If anyone here is procrastinating the way I did then stop now. Go and learn the trick whatever you do. Learn it NOW!
Don't be as dumb as me and leave it too late.
Hurry up before arthritis sets in.

Johnny Mystic
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Re: Cups and balls starting point

Postby Johnny Mystic » April 18th, 2004, 5:17 pm

Hey Mark, in regards to what Jean Hugard said about not being a real magician until ya learn the cups the balls, I've lived with that complex for a long while

...I've got a set of combo cups but after years still haven't gotten around to comin' up with a solid routine, I'm just lazy.

however I do know a few chop cup routines minus gimmicks so does that count? :)

Johnny

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Re: Cups and balls starting point

Postby Guest » April 18th, 2004, 8:10 pm

Some people swear by the chop cup. I don't find it as good as the cups and balls. I think you may be correct about eliminating the gimmick though.You probably don't need those magnet things.

There is an argument for the chop cup. Ken Brooke seemed to prefer it and he gave his reasons once. Something to do with focus or something or other.

I don't think old Hugard would be too much on the chop cup somehow. I can sense him sniffing at the very mention of it and muttering something about "substitutes"

No. I think we all need to learn the cups and balls. It is just as classical as the linking rings with the great advantage that it hasn't been done to death in the same way. It is a new trick still to millions of laymen.

The audience reaction is terrific. At least I have found this to be the case so far. I am cursing now that I left it so late before learning it.

Bob Walder
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Re: Cups and balls starting point

Postby Bob Walder » April 19th, 2004, 8:21 am

The Ammar book can be quite difficult to follow in places, but his DVDs are brilliant - if you only buy ONE resource on cups and balls I would recommend those (I think there are two of them)

He covers all the basic moves, slights, vanishes, etc, uses clear glass cups in places so you can see exactly what is going on, and builds up to some simple routines which you can expand on yourself - he also covers the Vernon routine in detail (along with suggested improvements.... cheek of the man!) ;)

Buy them - you won't regret it.

Other good resources if you can afford them:

Greater Magic Video Library Cups and Balls (VHS only) - some great ideas from different performers on there - including Pete Biro's favourite routine ;)

Carl Andrews Table Hopping Cups and Balls - great two-cup routine - very fast and very funny, and leads into a nice sponge ball routine with the final loads.

Bob Walder


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