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Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 19th, 2019, 6:07 pm
by Q. Kumber
Some years back I came across a trick with a memorised deck and can't recall the source, but Gary Oullet does seem familiar.

The deck is on the table, spec 1 takes half the deck and places it in pocket
Spec 2 takes half the remainder and does same.
Spec 3 takes half what's left and does the same.

There's a handful of cards on the table, which is your clue to reveal the face cards of each packet.

Any suggestions as to the printed source or who first came up with it would be appreciated.

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 20th, 2019, 1:23 am
by Brad Jeffers
I can't imagine how this would work!?

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 20th, 2019, 1:31 am
by Bill Mullins
Brad Jeffers wrote:I can't imagine how this would work!?


Deck is face up . . .

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 20th, 2019, 1:41 am
by erdnasephile
Marked, memorized deck?

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 20th, 2019, 3:25 am
by Brad Henderson
Steve Ehlers has a three phase routine published in Las Vegas Kardma by Ackerman. Set up is as you described. As you stated three packets are cut, face card noted, and then shuffled First phase you fan the cards to spectator one and deduce the card. Second phase you tell spectator 3 their card without touching at all. Last phase you call every card in spectator 2’s packet leaving theirs for last.

This is the original source for the routine. I showed this years ago to someone, who I won’t mention and they included it in their notes and in a later project with a minor variation that incorporated a marked deck to little additional effect. He did not credit the originator as he was unaware of it, only having seen me perform it.

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 20th, 2019, 4:11 am
by Marco Pusterla
Ed Marlo: "A Miracle with Cards", Ibidem n. 8, p 11. The trick has been then elaborated/re-invented by others: Simon Aronson in "Kabbala", Steve Ehlers in "Las Vegas Kardma" (p. 173), John Cornelius, Armand Porcell ("Les Cartes ESP"), etc. I published my version in my 2000 lecture notes, too.

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 20th, 2019, 4:56 am
by Q. Kumber
Thank you Brad and Marco for the references.

The deck isn't marked and is face down. The few cards left on the table are all you need and you don't need to see their faces - at least in the version I'm thinking of.

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 20th, 2019, 7:47 am
by Tom Gilbert
It almost sounds like it could be done with the Osterlind system?

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 20th, 2019, 7:50 am
by Brad Henderson
The ehlers version does NOT require a marked pack. It takes a single peek of the remaining talon as you demonstrate/ask them to shuffle the cards.

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 20th, 2019, 7:51 am
by Brad Henderson
But you do need to know how many cards were taken in the first cut. This is accomplished by having the cards spread in front of the spectator. You can do it or they can do it.

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 20th, 2019, 10:32 am
by Ian Kendall
There are ways around that :)

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 20th, 2019, 10:39 am
by John Bowden
This effect can be performed without the use of either a memorised, stacked or marked deck.

It can be done with any borrowed deck and only requires that the magician is capable of palming a few cards (while there is no heat on his hands).

It isn't mine and unfortunately I can't remember where I found it hence the lack of credit being given.

When Quentin asked me about this effect I couldn't remember much about it, but with a night's sleep to help, my old brain began to work a little and I now remember every detail of it, other than where it is written up.
If I recall at a later stage I'll post again.

If this is the same effect it is about thirty five years ago that I was familiar with it.

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 20th, 2019, 11:22 am
by federico luduena
The method I have been using for this effect is the one Marco posted. Very effective. For the last reveal, there is no handling of packet, as one can resort to key card.

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 20th, 2019, 2:44 pm
by Sean Piper
With those parameters, it does sound like it might be the Marlo effect from Ibidem referenced above?

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 20th, 2019, 3:43 pm
by erdnasephile
Marco Pusterla wrote:Ed Marlo: "A Miracle with Cards", Ibidem n. 8, p 11. The trick has been then elaborated/re-invented by others: Simon Aronson in "Kabbala", Steve Ehlers in "Las Vegas Kardma" (p. 173), John Cornelius, Armand Porcell ("Les Cartes ESP"), etc. I published my version in my 2000 lecture notes, too.


Behr's Conjuring Archive also lists "Groupease" by TA Waters (Mind, Myth & Magic, pg 616). Mr. Waters cites the Marlo routine as his basis. (He also proposes a variant with an interesting marked deck)

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 21st, 2019, 12:48 am
by Steve Cohen
Quentin, I wonder if you are thinking of this marketed trick: Ceremony of the Immortals by Patrick Reymond, Jean Boucher & Gary Ouellet.
If I recall, there was a cheat sheet provided for those who didn't know how to memorize a deck. Each time you revealed a card, you automatically knew the next selection. (The memorized deck was stacked from card 52 at top to card 1 at bottom.)

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 21st, 2019, 5:07 am
by Matthew Field
Maybe, Quentin, you're thinking of Pat Page's trick, where three people cut off portions of a deck, look at the face card, and hold the packets against their chests. Pat names the cards. It's in "Magic Page by Page," The Four Packets, Part 2, pg. 102, and Pat did it frequently . He sure stumped me with it. It uses a stacked deck -- Pat used Eight Kings. When I performed it, I used a reverse Stebbins stack. You need to be able to peek the top card of the remaining packet you hold, then as each packet is replaced, to peek the top card of these.

Matt Field

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 21st, 2019, 11:35 am
by Q. Kumber
Steve, it could well be The Ceremony of the Immortals. I don't have that book, but may have done in the past. I'm pretty sure Gary Ouellet had something to do with the effect I have in mind. Thank you. I will follow up that lead.

Matt, it isn't the Pat Page trick, excellent as that is, and it does share similarities. It was re-reading Pat's book the other day that reminded me of it, and also reminded me there is enough superb material in Pat's book to earn a very good living from magic.

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 22nd, 2019, 6:52 pm
by Brad Jeffers
Brad Jeffers wrote:I can't imagine how this would work!?

Bill Mullins wrote:Deck is face up . . .
erdnasephile wrote:Marked, memorized deck?
Brad Henderson wrote:you fan the cards to spectator one and deduce the card.
John Bowden wrote: requires that the magician is capable of palming a few cards
Brad Henderson wrote: you do need to know how many cards were taken in the first cut.


I can now figure out a method to do this, but still not exactly as initially described ...

Q. Kumber wrote:The deck is on the table, spec 1 takes half the deck and places it in pocket
Spec 2 takes half the remainder and does same.
Spec 3 takes half what's left and does the same.
There's a handful of cards on the table, which is your clue to reveal the face cards of each packet.

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 22nd, 2019, 10:11 pm
by Jack Shalom
IIRC Doug Dyment's Mindsights booklet contains a trick with a similar plot, "The Immoderate Deception."

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 22nd, 2019, 11:05 pm
by Brad Jeffers
I've now been told how this works.
As I figured - there was a tiny bit of procedural information withheld from Q's original description!

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 23rd, 2019, 1:11 am
by Paul Mims
I saw Brad perform this effect many years ago in Austin for a group of magicians. It was a complete mind - blower.

Re: Memorized Deck Question

Posted: March 23rd, 2019, 4:39 pm
by Q. Kumber
Brad Jeffers wrote:I've now been told how this works.
As I figured - there was a tiny bit of procedural information withheld from Q's original description!


My original post was just a request as to the source of the trick. I gave enough information that if anyone was familiar with it, they would recognise it. I didn't feel it appropriate to give working details lest I be publicly giving away details of someone else's routine. I'd be mortified if I had done so and later discovered someone had shown it to me in confidence to it's a dealer item. Over time we can forget an original source. I've done that a couple of times. Ouch!