The Genii Forum

I've been all my amateur card magic life hearing about ending the Ambitious Card Routine with the card in an impossible place.
It's curious that, as far as I know, nobody has had the oposite idea, which would be actually the proper way to follow and finish the plot.
I mean, how about putting the ambitious card in an impossible place and yet make it come to the top of the deck? For example, putting it inside a closed safe, and still get the card on the top of the deck... or tear the A. C. apart or burning it... and still it comes to the top!...

Well, I've done an easy version using the rub-a-dub technique:
I do the said move without trick and show with the other hand that the top card of the deck is not the A. C., because it is under my hand (I show it and put it on top of the deck) "Now, let's put something on top of the card not to let it escape" (perform again the rub-a-dub technique keeping the A. C. on top) and put something on top; a book, a hat... right away, without letting the audience think to much, we double turn over as saying "remember, the A. C. is not now on top." Finally we do magical gestures, take our time, and ask the spectator to look under the book, hat... it's gone! why? Let's see the top card...
Presenting it properly it gets good reactions.
I added this idea in my personal amateur book of card magic.

Joe Lyons wrote:

Pete McCabe wrote:
I’ve never seen a routine that combined ambitious card with rising or haunted, but with the presentation you’re using, I think you could make the audience feel that it was all one trick. I would love to see that.

So, at the end of the stated routine I place the cards in a houlette to the side, seemingly discarding them, and the selected card(perverse magic) slowly starts to rise.

FWIW, a few years ago, I posted this video to my blog where I combined an attempted Ambitious Card with the rising card. It might give you some ideas:

https://jackshalom.net/2015/07/25/rising-expectations/

Paco Nagata wrote:I've been all my amateur card magic life hearing about ending the Ambitious Card Routine with the card in an impossible place.
It's curious that, as far as I know, nobody has had the oposite idea, which would be actually the proper way to follow and finish the plot.
I mean, how about putting the ambitious card in an impossible place and yet make it come to the top of the deck? For example, putting it inside a closed safe, and still get the card on the top of the deck... or tear the A. C. apart or burning it... and still it comes to the top!...

A wonderful idea! I could imagine putting the card (seemingly) into a window envelope where the back remains visible for a minute. Then you either burn it all or, better still, you shake the envelope and the card vanishes in a blink. You hand out the empty envelope and the card reappears on top of the deck. Top!

Did I mention Card on Forehead? Saw Derek Dingle do it and that's what I've used ever since.

There's a cute item called the horizontal card rise where are card placed in the pack winds up at the face of the pack. Could be done with the face down pack too. Comes with a glass and a base and glass dome to cover the thing. Cover with a hank and the card is at the face of the pack again.

Collector's Workshop used to sell that. Still might.

But it's easier to do with a stemmed wine glass and a twist.

Also, bending the card and make it pop to the top is always really visual

Richard Kaufman wrote:Did I mention Card on Forehead? Saw Derek Dingle do it and that's what I've used ever since.

You didn't mention it but now that you have, perhaps you could a little elaborate, please. I don't recall seeing any mention of it in The Complete Works.

I cannot remember if it's in there, or somewhere else. You can see photos of Dingle doing it in the Hyla Clark book.

I have suggested a number of endings to The Ambitious Card in the thread of Perverse Magic on this forum including one that is the first item posted on that thread on December 2002 (page 6 of the book Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic")

Basically the magician tries to find a selected card but keeps getting "The Ambitious Card" and so in frustration he says he will do his magic with that card and when he tries to have the Ambitious Card go into his pocket he is confused when it's not The Ambitious Card in his pocket but the selected card.

Christopher1979 wrote:Also, bending the card and make it pop to the top is always really visual

To me it's not worth to perform an Ambitious Card Routine without including the fantastic Braue pop-up effect. That great effect just seems to be made for that routine.

Dingle’s card on forehead reference:

https://www.conjuringarchive.com/list/book/102

Side note: is the pop up move Braue’s? Or Vernon’s?

Skmayhew2 wrote:Dingle’s card on forehead reference:


Side note: is the pop up move Braue’s? Or Vernon’s?

It was attributed to Braue because it's described in Expert Card Technique but perhaps Vernon (or Miller) did it before.

The truth is out there... (music)

Dingle's Card on Forehead is in the first New York Symposium book.

Philippe Billot wrote:

Skmayhew2 wrote:Side note: is the pop up move Braue’s? Or Vernon’s?

It was attributed to Braue because it's described in Expert Card Technique but perhaps Vernon (or Miller) did it before.
The truth is out there... (music)

I wonder why Hugard and Braue spoke very little about the origen of the techniques, moves, tricks... described in "Expert Card Technique". Maybe because it was assumed that most of them were clearly Vernon's and Miller's? As far as I have heard or read somewhere, Vernon said something like: "I could have written this book".

My bad!
In the third edition (which is the one I have) Hugard credited most of the sleight to Vernon. Nontheless it's not specified exactly which of them. Hence, the misteries that Philippe Billot is talking about.

Wouldn't "Card to Ceiling" also qualify as a TOP closer for an ACR?

Philippe Billot wrote:

Skmayhew2 wrote:Dingle’s card on forehead reference:


Side note: is the pop up move Braue’s? Or Vernon’s?

It was attributed to Braue because it's described in Expert Card Technique but perhaps Vernon (or Miller) did it before.

The truth is out there... (music)

In Carney 2013 (the Touches on Classics episode 1:22 ), John Carney attributes the pop-up move to Bill Simon. I've not read that attribution before--has anyone else come across it?

erdnasephile wrote:In Carney 2013 (the Touches on Classics episode 1:22 ), John Carney attributes the pop-up move to Bill Simon. I've not read that attribution before--has anyone else come across it?

Interesting.

I think I got the idea that the move was Vernon's from one of the Carney segments in 'Spirit of Magic', but looking at it again I see that he doesn't actually credit the move to Vernon:

https://youtu.be/OeIBCLw4p8o?t=1561

Zig Zagger wrote:

Paco Nagata wrote:I've been all my amateur card magic life hearing about ending the Ambitious Card Routine with the card in an impossible place.
It's curious that, as far as I know, nobody has had the oposite idea, which would be actually the proper way to follow and finish the plot.
I mean, how about putting the ambitious card in an impossible place and yet make it come to the top of the deck? For example, putting it inside a closed safe, and still get the card on the top of the deck... or tear the A. C. apart or burning it... and still it comes to the top!...

A wonderful idea! I could imagine putting the card (seemingly) into a window envelope where the back remains visible for a minute. Then you either burn it all or, better still, you shake the envelope and the card vanishes in a blink. You hand out the empty envelope and the card reappears on top of the deck. Top!

Zig Zagger, today I tried your window envelope idea for an Ambitious Card Routine ending during a show for my birthday family party, and it worked! I mean, my people liked it a lot

Paco Nagata wrote:Zig Zagger, today I tried your window envelope idea for an Ambitious Card Routine ending during a show for my birthday family party, and it worked! I mean, my people liked it a lot

That's nice to hear, Paco. I already like your family!

Please PM me if you are interested in an exchange of ideas about sneaky window envelopes.

Did anyone say Paul Harris's Color Stunner ?

webbmaster wrote:Did anyone say Paul Harris's Color Stunner ?

Isn't it rather a technicolor Triumph? (If you speak about Color Stunner in The Magic of Paul Harris by Jerry Mentzer, published in 1976)

Paco Nagata wrote:My bad!
In the third edition (which is the one I have) Hugard credited most of the sleight to Vernon. Nontheless it's not specified exactly which of them. Hence, the misteries that Philippe Billot is talking about.

Excerpt from Racherbaumer's Facsimile number four (1996):

CHARLIE MILLER’S MATERIAL in EXPERT CARD TECHNIQUE

1) Strip Out False Shuffle p. 67
2) Single Card Bridge, p. 123
3) Mesmerized Cards, p. 207
4) Predestined Choice, p. 225
5) Dexterous Fingers, p. 230
6) Solo Flight Aces, p. 254
7) Nomad Aces, p. 256
8) Danbury Deviler, p. 307
9) Dunbury Delusion, p. 319
10) Mental Selectivity, p. 336

These are the cited references, but it is not clear how much additional material was contributed by Charlie Miller. In the good old days, Dai Vernon and Charlie Miller were not systematic note-takers. They showed things to Fred Braue, who took notes and applied his journalistic skills to recording some of the best material being devised in those days. In the foreword to the First Edition the authors admit they were "particularly indebted to Charles Miller..." They were also indebted to Dai Vernon.

From what I've heard, Miller showed Braue Vernon's material--but not for publication in the book.

How well does "off the record" work with journalists?

I believe Braue secretly recorded the Vernon material that Miller showed him.

Isn't that what I said?

Richard Kaufman wrote:From what I've heard, Miller showed Braue Vernon's material--but not for publication in the book.

It omitted the part where Braue had the recorder under his desk.

Are you making that up (a joke)?

That claim comes, I believe, from Paul Chosse, who wrote it on TheMagicCafe. See here: https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/vie ... ic=27897#8

If you change the patter during the "Tilt" phase, used multiple times to "prove" the deck is supposedly half face up and half face down, and show the card, the (force) selection each time - then it seems to come back up to second from the top, but as you take away the face up card you can say "It came back". It makes that section like an Ambitious plot with some cards face up and some not.

Then it turns into a Triumph effect and finally the color changing deck ending. I once discussed this with David Williamson who has a great Color Stunner variation.

Richard Kaufman wrote:Are you making that up (a joke)?

Certainly not a joke. In addition to Mr. Behr's source, David Ben notes in his Vernon bio that Braue recorded his sessions covertly with Miller on an office wire recorder.

Would love to know where those tapes went.