The Genii Forum

Posted: **February 13th, 2019, 1:59 pm**

Anyone else use a different color deck for the final phase?

It's good for the parlor but I wouldn't use it in walkaround.

I am looking for any finishing touches other than the last rise.

Thanks,
Joe

Posted: **February 13th, 2019, 3:51 pm**

There are so many options ...

Posted: **February 13th, 2019, 4:48 pm**

Richard Kaufman wrote:There are so many options ...

...true, foolish question.

The routine:
Selection - Return
Cut - Shuffle
Benzais Spin Out production
Rise
Rise
Get Signature
Rise from different colored deck.

Does anyone else use a different colored deck for the finale?

Posted: **February 13th, 2019, 5:20 pm**

Joe Lyons wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:There are so many options ...

Does anyone else use a different colored deck for the finale?

I had never seen or heard of that for the finale, but it strikes me as a wonderful finish. It must get a great reaction, right? I wouldn't think you necessarily need anything else after that. But if you do continue on, IMHO it would need to be something even stronger than the (already-very-strong) color changing deck. For example the one and only blue card is shown to vanish and appears in the zippered compartment of your wallet, or do the card to ceiling, both of which are exceedingly strong.

Posted: **February 13th, 2019, 5:53 pm**

MagicbyAlfred wrote:...color changing deck.

To be clear, the red card rises to the top of the blue deck for the finale, the deck doesn't change color.

MagicbyAlfred wrote:It must get a great reaction, right?

It does, maybe I'll just add to the middle.

MagicbyAlfred wrote:I had never seen or heard of that for the finale.

I came up with it independently, but i'm sure it's in print.

Bill, Phillipe, Max?

Posted: **February 13th, 2019, 6:10 pm**

I'm slightly confused. Do you do most of the routine, then at the end suddenly introduce a different color backed deck and insert the chosen card into that and it rises to the top?

I actually like the idea of doing the whole routine with an odd-backed card from another deck. It opens up the use of Color Changes as a way to make the card come to the top. If you do an Ambitious Card routine using Passes, it's a piece of cake, but it changes the moment (for better or worse--you decide).

Posted: **February 13th, 2019, 6:20 pm**

Richard Kaufman wrote:I'm slightly confused. Do you do most of the routine, then at the end suddenly introduce a different color backed deck and insert the chosen card into that and it rises to the top?

Sorry I haven't been clear. Yes, at the end I introduce a blue deck, insert their red card and it rises to the top. It works very well in my parlor environment.

Posted: **February 13th, 2019, 6:46 pm**

Do you provide the audience with a reason for suddenly bringing in a different deck?

Posted: **February 13th, 2019, 7:04 pm**

Richard Kaufman wrote:Do you provide the audience with a reason for suddenly bringing in a different deck?

The basic premise is that they chose the "magic card" in the deck. It leaps out of the deck and refuses to stay in the middle. I bring out the blue deck as sort of a "test conditions" proof that the red card will not be kept down.(They should be able to track a red card in a blue deck). It's very visual when I insert a red card in the middle of the pack, turn over the top blue card, they see their signature, then slowly turn it over and show them the red back.

Posted: **February 13th, 2019, 9:14 pm**

The card turning up on top of a different deck is a good idea. Not sure it's a climax for a theme though. What's the theme as far as the audience is concerned?

Posted: **February 13th, 2019, 11:29 pm**

Didn't Elmsley have something called Ambitious Stranger, where the entire routine was done with an odd backed card?

Seems like it would make sense that the card would try to leave a deck it didn't belong in...

Posted: **February 14th, 2019, 2:38 am**

Joe Lyons wrote:To be clear, the red card rises to the top of the blue deck for the finale ...

When I read this I thought - "That's pretty cool ".

What I envisioned happening, I figured could be accomplished with the use of a flap card and a double turnover, or more simply by any of the sleight of hand methods used to cause a face-up selection to rise to the top.

Joe Lyons wrote:It's very visual when I insert a red card in the middle of the pack, turn over the top blue card, they see their signature, then slowly turn it over and show them the red back.

When I read this I thought - "That's not cool at all".

The red backed card that's inserted into the middle of the deck needs to arrive at the top of the deck as a red backed card!

Posted: **February 14th, 2019, 7:45 am**

Jonathan Townsend wrote:The card turning up on top of a different deck is a good idea. Not sure it's a climax for a theme though. What's the theme as far as the audience is concerned?

Usual Ambitious theme - sometimes I call it the Houdini card.

Bill Duncan wrote:Didn't Elmsley have something called Ambitious Stranger, where the entire routine was done with an odd backed card?

Thanks, Bill, I'll check out the Elmsley books.

Brad Jeffers wrote:When I read this I thought - "That's not cool at all".

I appreciate your thoughts, Brad, I thought of using a flap as well. I prefer, however, to slightly slow the pace at the end and finish with a slow burn reveal. The gaff is also much easier to manage - just open a new pack of Elite Bikes. The reactions are cool, try it!

Posted: **February 14th, 2019, 8:04 am**

Bill Duncan wrote:Didn't Elmsley have something called Ambitious Stranger, where the entire routine was done with an odd backed card?

Seems like it would make sense that the card would try to leave a deck it didn't belong in...

See The New Pentagram Vol. 3 no. 11, janv 1972 or The Collected Works of Alex Elmsley, Vol. 1

It seems that the first who used this idea was Milton Kort in Psycho Gizmo Vol. 4, no. 39, august 1964.

Posted: **February 14th, 2019, 8:17 am**

Richard Kaufman wrote:Do you provide the audience with a reason for suddenly bringing in a different deck?

why not magically produce the different deck? maybe pull it out of the original card case or... perhaps this could be a good use for doug edwards criss-crossed cases.

kevin

Posted: **February 14th, 2019, 8:48 am**

Elmsley is the man, however, simple and direct works better for my personality(and skillset)

.

Wish I could read the Kort version, don't have any Psycho Gizmos on me.

I'll think about the deck production Kevin......

Posted: **February 14th, 2019, 9:10 am**

If one is doing a Perverse Magic Ambitious Card where the magician is frustrated he can end by desperately taking another deck, and looking to see that the top card isn't the Ambitious Card and then - suddenly it is!!!

Frustrated, he ends his performance.

Posted: **February 14th, 2019, 10:40 am**

Gerald Deutsch wrote:If one is doing a Perverse Magic ...

Love all of your work, Gerald. For me, Perverse Magic is a little more magical, psychologically, because it is happening to the magician as well as the audience.

Posted: **February 14th, 2019, 12:55 pm**

Joe Lyons wrote:Elmsley is the man, however, simple and direct works better for my personality(and skillset) .

Wish I could read the Kort version, don't have any Psycho Gizmos on me.

I'll think about the deck production Kevin......

You can find his version in his book Off Color Card Tricks (1970) by Milton Kort under the name Ambitious Like.

Posted: **February 14th, 2019, 1:12 pm**

Thanks Philippe!
Looks like Magic Inc has it in stock.

Posted: **February 14th, 2019, 8:07 pm**

From my (out of print, not a plug) booklet TRIBUTE, which is about my routine "An Ambitious Young Man" and the framing effects, here's my AC ending. It's done with a face up card, but there's no reason you couldn't do it with a face down stranger card. The selection is second from the top. Depending on skill and the angles you can "lose it" in the pack by double cutting the bottom card onto it, or you can spread the pack face up to show the card in the middle and do a dribble cover pass (my preferred method). A wrist turn pass with the break held one card above the selection would fit well here also. However you get there, here's the ending.

For the final rise you'll perform Edward Marlo's Aerial Change (Card Finesse, Racherbaumer, 1982). As you square the pack grasp the top card lightly and lower the right side of the remaining 51 pasteboards away from it just enough that you can insert the outer corner of the top card between your second and third fingers at the bases. This is Marlo's Card Clip position [fig]. The top card is secured by the clip and by pressure of the tip of the right thumb at the inner left corner and the second finger at the outer end. It is necessary to maintain a gentle pressure in this way to keep the clipped card from moving too soon. When you are ready for the final rise lift the right hand a bit and lower the left so that your hands are eight or ten inches apart. To effect the change simply toss the pack sideways and downward into the waiting left hand. The signed selection appears face up atop the pack in mid-air! A slight and casual turn of the right wrist will hide the clipped card from all but the extreme left side angle.

I clean up a bit differently than the published technique; start thumb spreading the pack as your hands come together and rotate the right wrist using the spreading cards to cover the clipped card as it moves back to the horizontal plane. Allow the clipped card to merge with the others as they are spread so that it inserts itself into the middle of the pack.

As a final note, in the event that I cannot control the angles obviously the Marlo change won't do. In that case I substitute The Pop-Up Card (aka Bent Card) created by Fredrick Braue and first published in Expert Card Technique.

Posted: **February 15th, 2019, 1:12 pm**

I personally don't care much for anthromorphic presentations—like the Jacks are the detectives, etc.. But one day we were talking about the ambitious card, and I asked myself: what would it mean if a playing card were genuinely ambitious? It seems to me that the only playing card that can get promoted is a Jack, who could theoretically be made King.

I could never find anything to do with this idea, but maybe someone else will.

If I may be so bold, if OP wants someone to suggest a good ending for your Ambitious Card, you should start by telling us about your beginning and middle.

Posted: **February 15th, 2019, 2:38 pm**

Pete McCabe wrote:If I may be so bold, if OP wants someone to suggest a good ending for your Ambitious Card, you should start by telling us about your beginning and middle.

Pete - love your books.

Int – Parlor- Evening
Joe stands behind poker table performing for family.

Joe
Kay, take a card, any card.

Kay takes a card out of a red deck and remembers it.
Joe replaces the card in the middle of the deck, cuts and shuffles the cards.

Joe
Now, in order to find your card……..

The card leaps out of the deck just as Joe cuts it.

Joe
Wait a minute……

Joe turns over the card that flew out.

Joe
No wonder, you chose the Jack of Spades. That card is the easiest to find, it refuses to stay in the middle of the deck. No, really, I’ll show you.

Joe takes the Jack, puts it in the middle of the deck and it immediately rises to the top.
Joe does it again.

Joe
See, I tell you, it’s just a magical card. Wait, I don’t think Cole(nephew) believes me. The rest of you understand the card has magic powers but I think here Cole thinks I have something to do with this. Kay, please sign the card.

As Kay signs the face of the card Joe picks up a blue deck.

Joe
Now Cole, this will show you I have nothing to do with this. The red card should be very easy to keep track of in a blue deck.

Joe inserts the red card in the middle of the blue pack and looks up at Cole. He very slowly turns over the blue card on top of the deck. It has Kay’s signature on it. Could it be? He turns the card back over to reveal the red back.

The end.

Posted: **February 15th, 2019, 2:57 pm**

kkelly wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:Do you provide the audience with a reason for suddenly bringing in a different deck?

why not magically produce the different deck? maybe pull it out of the original card case or... perhaps this could be a good use for doug edwards criss-crossed cases.

kevin

Doug Bennet. And I’m not sure it would work as written.

Posted: **February 15th, 2019, 3:12 pm**

I have it in mind that, for the denoument, it would be very magical if the whole deck was shown to have changed to a different color than the ambitious card and deck you had been using throughout the routine. I haven't thought about a method for it though.

Posted: **February 15th, 2019, 3:18 pm**

MagicbyAlfred wrote:I have it in mind that, for the denoument, it would be very magical if the whole deck was shown to have changed to a different color than the ambitious card and deck you had been using throughout the routine. I haven't thought about a method for it though.

A servante under my poker table...……………………
For a third colored deck.

Posted: **February 15th, 2019, 5:07 pm**

Brad Henderson wrote:
kkelly wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:Do you provide the audience with a reason for suddenly bringing in a different deck?

why not magically produce the different deck? maybe pull it out of the original card case or... perhaps this could be a good use for doug edwards criss-crossed cases.

kevin

Doug Bennet. And I’m not sure it would work as written.

ooops! thanks brad!

Posted: **February 15th, 2019, 6:58 pm**

Joe Lyons wrote:
MagicbyAlfred wrote:I have it in mind that, for the denoument, it would be very magical if the whole deck was shown to have changed to a different color than the ambitious card and deck you had been using throughout the routine. I haven't thought about a method for it though.

A servante under my poker table...……………………
For a third colored deck.

That would be quite handy. But would you need 3 decks or just 2?

Posted: **February 15th, 2019, 9:15 pm**

Joe,

Good job on your script. I hope you find the process useful. It certainly helps me to make suggestions when I can see the big picture.

What shined to me was the line “it refuses to stay in the middle of the deck.” The card flies from the deck physically, and then rises to the top. I like the idea that refusing to stay in the middle might mean rising to the top or just flying out of the deck.

This suggested the idea of finishing your ambitious card with either the rising card or the haunted deck.

If you go this way, you might start with a conventional rising to the top section, then it flies from the deck with some sort of flashy method like the Benzais spin cut OSLT. Then the big finish would be the rising card or haunted deck, done very slowly under close attention.

I’ve never seen a routine that combined ambitious card with rising or haunted, but with the presentation you’re using, I think you could make the audience feel that it was all one trick. I would love to see that.

Posted: **February 15th, 2019, 9:31 pm**

MagicbyAlfred wrote:I have it in mind that, for the denoument, it would be very magical if the whole deck was shown to have changed to a different color than the ambitious card and deck you had been using throughout the routine. I haven't thought about a method for it though.

There's a color changing deck in DesTroyers that would probably get you started.

Posted: **February 15th, 2019, 10:29 pm**

Pete McCabe wrote:Joe,

Good job on your script. I hope you find the process useful. It certainly helps me to make suggestions when I can see the big picture.

Funny how writing something down clarifies the thought process tenfold.

Posted: **February 15th, 2019, 10:32 pm**

Pete McCabe wrote:
I’ve never seen a routine that combined ambitious card with rising or haunted, but with the presentation you’re using, I think you could make the audience feel that it was all one trick. I would love to see that.

So, at the end of the stated routine I place the cards in a houlette to the side, seemingly discarding them, and the selected card(perverse magic) slowly starts to rise.

Posted: **February 16th, 2019, 10:06 am**

I like it a lot!

Posted: **February 16th, 2019, 10:42 am**

MagicbyAlfred wrote:I like it a lot!

I do too, I think that’s the one.
Thanks, Alfred, Pete and everyone!

Posted: **February 16th, 2019, 4:46 pm**

Enjoy Joe! Your audience is going to love it!

Posted: **February 16th, 2019, 8:31 pm**

Ditch the houlette. Put it upright in a glass, or put it in the cardcase (open) and lean that against a glass.

Posted: **February 16th, 2019, 9:11 pm**

Richard Kaufman wrote:Ditch the houlette. Put it upright in a glass, or put it in the cardcase (open) and lean that against a glass.

Richard - I understand and agree.
Thanks.

Posted: **February 16th, 2019, 10:39 pm**

Carrying a glass is ... well they come in cases - Libby 7 ?

Posted: **February 17th, 2019, 2:11 am**

7, 8… whatever it takes.

Posted: **February 17th, 2019, 8:15 am**

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Carrying a glass is ... well they come in cases - Libby 7 ?

Oh,I think I can negotiate the stairs with Libby 1.

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