Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
Tarotist
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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Tarotist » October 18th, 2022, 6:15 pm

I can do a little bit of coin magic myself. In fact I used to do quite a spectactular coin flourish routine before I became old and decrepit. I am very rusty now and can't do my own routine they way I used to. Here is the very routine I used to do. I am doing it badly here but at least the template is there if any hot shot young finger flinger wishes to work on it and do it properly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQiEr5FWWrI

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby NicholasD52 » October 18th, 2022, 7:36 pm

Ian Kendall wrote:It's interesting that because this thread is 21 years old, no one at the time knew about Bertini, and in the passing years he's slipped off the radar a bit so is out of mind again.

But Bertini wipes the floor with everyone mentioned here, at least on a technical level.


Totally agree. Bertini’s skill is extraordinary.

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby BarryAllen » October 18th, 2022, 8:14 pm

Tarotist wrote:As for sleeving I learned that from David Berglas of all people! Ganson wrote up his method somewhere or other. I have used it for years.

Anyway, look what I found!

https://boutique-magic-effect.com/produ ... is-ganson/

Lewis Ganson wrote it up Mark in Volume 2 of 'The Art of Close-up Magic'. There's an entire chapter within; superbly written by Lewis, covering all elements of David's methods; and with a myriad of small props.

It was Alan Alan who advised me to save up my pocket money and buy these two books from his shop - as with many magic books, very sound advice.

Councidentally, there is also a chapter within this very same volume by Bobby Bernard!

It covers Bob's version of Spellbound - titled 'Mirage'. It was from the description within that I first appreciated the value of back-clipping a coin. It also covers his routine 'School for Croupiers' - which included his dice-stacking routine.

Yep - that is indeed the very booklet that I was referring to in my earlier post. I forgot to mention there's another beautiful coin move within - 'After Ramsay' - cleverly adapted from a John Ramsay Vanish but whereby you can also change a coin, rather than simply use it as a vanish.

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Tarotist » October 18th, 2022, 8:42 pm

Yes. I own that volume but although I have read the Berglas chapter I think I read the sleeving article in the Gen. I suspect it was the same wording anyway. I also own the Bobby Bernard book under discussion. You mention Alan Alan who I also knew. He and Bobby had something in common. Rudeness was part of their DNA. I am not sure who was the worst. Come to think of it all the well known magicians in London at that time were bloody rude.

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Dave Le Fevre » October 19th, 2022, 3:29 am

Alan Alan had a bit of a reputation for rudeness, but he was courteous to me.

Bobby Bernard, however, seemed to enjoy confrontation. He loved telling people that they were executing some move wrongly.

It was a pleasure to have met both gentlemen, albeit briefly.

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Nev Blenk » October 19th, 2022, 4:09 am

Time for 'Coin Magic vol.2' by Richard Kaufman (Kaufman &Co)

Stick me down for the deluxe edition.

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Ian Kendall » October 22nd, 2022, 12:24 pm

I had lessons from Bobby in the 80s. Everything you've heard about him is probably true. Of the two, I would suggest that Bobby was slightly ruder than Alan, but mostly because of the size difference.

Seeing his Himber vanish did kick start my love affair with that sleight.

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 22nd, 2022, 1:50 pm

I saw Bobby many times. Never did I see him do a coin trick of any skill. He was a creepy guy and followed me around the entire weekend at a Tannen Jubilee. I found Alan Alan to be much nicer, though he was quite an unabashed diva, and considered him a friend.
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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Tarotist » October 22nd, 2022, 2:49 pm

I have to reluctantly admit that Bobby was very skillful indeed with coins. As for Alan he was somewhat less rude when he was away from behind a shop counter. He was quite a horrific monster when serving customers. Snarling "Go and look in the window" when he was trying to get rid of them or "have you come in for shelter?" when he didn't like the look of them.

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 22nd, 2022, 4:25 pm

Oh, I saw Alan in his shop many times, and was the victim of his insults. I found them funny.
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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 22nd, 2022, 6:50 pm

Have you folks seen Curtis Kam's handling of the Cylinder and Coins ? Or his coins across where the traveling coin rolls from hand to hand as a ball?
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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby BarryAllen » October 22nd, 2022, 7:59 pm

Tarotist wrote:I have to reluctantly admit that Bobby was very skillful indeed with coins.

Couldn't agree more.

Maybe, he only showed 'the good stuff' to those who he considered worthy of recognising and appreciating his talent, creativity and personalised nuances with certain moves? ;)

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Tarotist » October 22nd, 2022, 8:04 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Oh, I saw Alan in his shop many times, and was the victim of his insults. I found them funny.


A lot of his customers didn't find it funny. Davenports was not far away and I remember they had a very good demonstrator there by the name of Jake. He told me that Davenports got loads of business from the droves of people who had stormed out of Alan's place in disgust at being insulted and went to Davenports instead!

Of course when I was young there must have been about a dozen magic shops in London. Now there is only one. Times have changed and i my view not for the better..

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Edward Pungot » October 23rd, 2022, 10:32 am

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Have you folks seen Curtis Kam's handling of the Cylinder and Coins ? Or his coins across where the traveling coin rolls from hand to hand as a ball?


I haven’t seen, but I had a quick initial look at the routine descriptions on his Penguin #3 lecture syllabus. He seems to be going alchemical terminator liquid metal on us with his presentations and being bold and heavy in his approach to classical plots.

I’ve seen his first Penguin lecture so I know he has both the chops and flight time to give an inspiring lecture. And he’s in league with the magician lawyers so he definitely knows how to structure and routine these things.

So I guess the question returns back to you an amateur coin guy who has a better eye for these things. Does he hit the mark in his artistic and boundary pushing aspirations? Obviously he has otherwise he wouldn’t be giving a third Penguin lecture. So I suppose I am soliciting your thoughts and initial impressions of the two routines that compelled you to ask the question in the first place. Inquiring minds would like to know what’s on your mind regarding these two routines by Kam?

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 23rd, 2022, 2:53 pm

Edward Pungot wrote:... your thoughts and initial impressions of the two routines that compelled you to ask the question in the first place. Inquiring minds would like to know what’s on your mind regarding these two routines by Kam?


This is about what would help the student. His Six Cylinder and Coins Across are practical takes on classic plots. And both make sensible use of standard sleights. It's about using sleights to accomplish the effect without asking the audience to appreciate coin handling skill.

A more effect-oriented example might be his "Inferential Copper Silver Transposition"; which starts with a few coins on your open hand and proceeds directly into the routine without purses, props, or even a closeup pad. A fine routine using just a couple of sleights the student likely already knows.

Along similar lines, Kainoa Harbottle has a routine using the glass disc from the old coin-into-water glass vanish which demonstrate getting a magical effect from a standard prop. Fine magic after the student can do the sleights without appearing white knuckled.
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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Jack Shalom » October 23rd, 2022, 6:35 pm

I'm not a huge fan of coin magic, but I like the fluidity of this magician a lot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOuKLmcodnQ

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby RG Smith » November 9th, 2022, 11:55 am

Dean Dill.

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Tarotist » November 9th, 2022, 12:54 pm

Oh, I think we simply have to say "David Roth" and be done with it. I have never seen anyone to equal him in the area of coin magic.

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 9th, 2022, 1:25 pm

David Roth is to coin magic as Johann Hofzinser was to card magic. There is ample room for everyone who follows, but the work of almost everyone who follows is affected by their enormous and overarching influence.
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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Tarotist » November 9th, 2022, 4:15 pm

Of course Nelson Downs would have been worth watching but alas even I am not old enough to have seen him. However, I have a suspicion from things that I have read that he was an amusing fellow and that counts FAR more with me than technical ability. And of course he had one attribute with coins that David Roth didn't. He could do great coin work on stage as well as close up.

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 9th, 2022, 5:08 pm

We don't really know enough about Downs's ability as a close up coin worker. He seems to have done simple coin things for close up. He was much more interested in card sleights and gambling stuff in his retirement. Personally, it's hard to imagine seeing him do the act described in Modern Coin Magic with the back palming of a long line of coins.
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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 9th, 2022, 5:34 pm

The Ross Bertram book has a story about Downs showing Vernon a four coin vanish - and Vernon busting him asking to see the gimmick. ;)
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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Tarotist » November 9th, 2022, 5:49 pm

In the Faucett Ross book it was mentioned that Downs would often do a half hour's entertainment if someone stopped him in the street! That makes me think he must have had some ability at close up magic!

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Tom Gilbert » November 10th, 2022, 7:56 am

I'd have to say Roth and Kurtz.

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Tarotist » February 20th, 2024, 11:37 pm

Here is David Roth doing the famous three ball trick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkLvmuLfwrU

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Chris Aguilar » February 21st, 2024, 10:19 am

Goshman is my fondest closeup magic memory (salt shaker & coins!)

Of the many stage shows I've attended, Blackstone Jr. and Lance Burton continue to stand out.

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Tarotist » February 22nd, 2024, 11:59 am

Oddly enough as good as David Roth undoubtedly was I noticed on a couple of videos that his French Drop had a lot to be desired. Still nobody is perfect I suppose

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » February 22nd, 2024, 12:17 pm

Sawa has some astonishing routines using coins.
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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Dustin Stinett » February 22nd, 2024, 4:27 pm

Tarotist wrote:Oddly enough as good as David Roth undoubtedly was I noticed on a couple of videos that his French Drop had a lot to be desired. Still nobody is perfect I suppose

I've never seen David do the French Drop as anything other than a feint; he would actually take the coin in the right hand Classic Palm, show the left hand empty, then use a palm-down tossing motion with the right as a way of showing it empty (he could hold his hand perfectly flat with the coin still securely palmed).

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Tarotist » February 22nd, 2024, 9:17 pm

Dustin Stinett wrote:
Tarotist wrote:Oddly enough as good as David Roth undoubtedly was I noticed on a couple of videos that his French Drop had a lot to be desired. Still nobody is perfect I suppose

I've never seen David do the French Drop as anything other than a feint; he would actually take the coin in the right hand Classic Palm, show the left hand empty, then use a palm-down tossing motion with the right as a way of showing it empty (he could hold his hand perfectly flat with the coin still securely palmed).


What you describe is not the French Drop. I should know since I used to do it myself when I first started in magic. It is quite serviceable but it is NOT the French drop. I have seen two videos where David is doing the French Drop and getting away with it but it isn't being done well. The secret of this vanish is to MOVE the left hand towards the right thus helping the illusion. This little tip was first mentioned in the Sphinx magazine and later mentioned in a Robert Parrish book. It makes all the difference

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Richard Kaufman » February 22nd, 2024, 9:35 pm

Dustin, the move you're describing is Walter Gibson's Spider Grip Vanish.
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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Dustin Stinett » February 22nd, 2024, 9:46 pm

What part did either of you miss when I said he was doing a feint?
So, okay, fine. That's what David was doing versus actually doing the French Drop. I said he wasn't doing a French Drop, except as a feint.
Shall I say it again???
Here he is doing it, or not doing it, nearly at the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2VhU_F0V2E

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby F.Amílcar » February 23rd, 2024, 5:25 am

Dear friends,

In my opinion the great magician in close-up with coins was JOAQUIN NAVAJAS. R. I. P.

Truly yours,


F. Amílcar Riega i Bello.

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby katterfelt0 » February 23rd, 2024, 5:36 am

F.Amílcar wrote:Dear friends,

In my opinion the great magician in close-up with coins was JOAQUIN NAVAJAS. R. I. P.

For those wishing to see his work, here's a YouTube video.
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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby JHostler » February 23rd, 2024, 6:56 am

katterfelt0 wrote:
F.Amílcar wrote:Dear friends,

In my opinion the great magician in close-up with coins was JOAQUIN NAVAJAS. R. I. P.

For those wishing to see his work, here's a YouTube video.


The bit at 1:44 is beautiful.
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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Dr. Solka » February 23rd, 2024, 7:53 am

I'd have to say, Willy Wessel. IMHO, one of the greatest living close-uppers.
I always remember his ending of a (close-up) matrix with an appearing giant Chinese coin of about 25 kg (like a weight plate) on the table.
Willy Wessel twice explained me his routine and deep thinking, but he always deceived my deception.

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Tarotist » February 23rd, 2024, 10:07 am

Dustin Stinett wrote:What part did either of you miss when I said he was doing a feint?
So, okay, fine. That's what David was doing versus actually doing the French Drop. I said he wasn't doing a French Drop, except as a feint.
Shall I say it again???
Here he is doing it, or not doing it, nearly at the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2VhU_F0V2E


I am talking about the French Drop. I have no idea which move you are talking about. He does do it a little better in that video you showed probably because of the confusion caused by all the other stuff. It is a marvellous routine and his presentation is excellent despite grumpy old Albert Goshman once growling in my presence "David Roth has no presentation"

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby James Nelson » March 18th, 2024, 7:29 pm

Armando Lucero

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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 18th, 2024, 7:40 pm

Armando is a miracle man.
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Re: Who is the best coin magician you have seen?

Postby Jack Shalom » March 18th, 2024, 8:18 pm

Jack Shalom wrote:I'm not a huge fan of coin magic, but I like the fluidity of this magician a lot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOuKLmcodnQ


I didn't mention the name, but that was Ponta the Smith. Pretty impressive, I think.


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