Vernon's Cutting the Aces: Set up from a face up fan

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Thomas Van Aken
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Vernon's Cutting the Aces: Set up from a face up fan

Postby Thomas Van Aken » February 7th, 2019, 10:51 am

Hi all,
In the first volume of the Vernon's "Revelations" video serie, Mike Ammar mentions an alternative way to set up the aces in "Cutting the Aces" by inserting them in a face up fan (probably using the well known LePaul's subtlety).
Any idea where it has been described ?
Thanks in advance and best regards
Th.

Brad Henderson
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Re: Vernon's Cutting the Aces: Set up from a face up fan

Postby Brad Henderson » February 7th, 2019, 10:56 am

Vernon chronicles. I believe it’s in the first volume but could be mistaken about that.

Thomas Van Aken
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Re: Vernon's Cutting the Aces: Set up from a face up fan

Postby Thomas Van Aken » February 7th, 2019, 11:05 am

Brad,
What is described in the first volume of the Vernon Chronicle is the original handling of losing the aces in 4 packets using single cuts instead of double cuts as explained in Stars of Magic, it is not what I am referring to in my initial post.
Br,
Th.

Brad Henderson
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Re: Vernon's Cutting the Aces: Set up from a face up fan

Postby Brad Henderson » February 7th, 2019, 11:55 am

The chronicles description has the first card inserted into the fan. It may have been what Ammar referred to in the tape. This was the handling that Vernon used. The one in stars of magic was simplified for the masses.

Joe Lyons
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Re: Vernon's Cutting the Aces: Set up from a face up fan

Postby Joe Lyons » February 7th, 2019, 12:06 pm

It was from an idea by Irv Weiner, I’m not sure it’s been in print.

Max Maven
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Re: Vernon's Cutting the Aces: Set up from a face up fan

Postby Max Maven » February 7th, 2019, 10:04 pm

First published inGenii, January 1965, page 256.

Denis Behr
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Re: Vernon's Cutting the Aces: Set up from a face up fan

Postby Denis Behr » February 8th, 2019, 4:00 am

The Genii version is the one that was republished with more details in the Vernon Chronicles. I think what Thomas is looking for, is this: A face-up fan with the whole deck (minus the Aces) is held in the left hand. All four Aces are inserted and left out-jogged in different positions in this fan. The fan is squared, and the Cutting the Aces procedure is begun.

When using the bluff spacing that Thomas mentioned and sight-counting from a Seven spot in the fan, it shouldn't be too difficult to make this work. A published version where exactly that type of losing procedure is used, is this (but it's rather late): Cutting the Aces.

Joe Lyons
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Re: Vernon's Cutting the Aces: Set up from a face up fan

Postby Joe Lyons » February 8th, 2019, 7:43 am

Denis Behr wrote: I think what Thomas is looking for, is this: A face-up fan with the whole deck (minus the Aces) is held in the left hand. All four Aces are inserted and left out-jogged in different positions in this fan. The fan is squared, and the Cutting the Aces procedure is begun.


Yes,Denis, that’s the idea I wasn’t sure was in print. I don’t have access to HMM, but I wonder if Weiners version is here.

Philippe Billot
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Re: Vernon's Cutting the Aces: Set up from a face up fan

Postby Philippe Billot » February 8th, 2019, 8:07 am

Irv Weiner's Cutting the Aces from HMM comes from an idea explained by Prof. Kunard The Book of Card Tricks published in 1888.

Thomas Van Aken
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Re: Vernon's Cutting the Aces: Set up from a face up fan

Postby Thomas Van Aken » February 8th, 2019, 1:05 pm

Hi all,
Thanks Denis for clarifying my words. As the Revelation video series predates the Fuentes reference of almost 20 years, one can assume that the idea circulated for some times and/or that multiple individuals came up with it, which is likely.
Thanks Joe for the Weiners reference even if it is probably not what I am looking for according to Philippe.
Thanks to all for contributing.
Best regards
Thomas

Denis Behr
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Re: Vernon's Cutting the Aces: Set up from a face up fan

Postby Denis Behr » February 8th, 2019, 2:32 pm

In HMM, Weiner talks about a deck with only one corner shorted, making it a one-way stripper type gaffed deck. He gives cutting to the four (reversed) Aces as a rudimentary application. It's even older than Kunard (and was recently resurrected by Christian Engblom): https://www.conjuringcredits.com/doku.p ... s_and_deck

Bob Farmer
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Re: Vernon's Cutting the Aces: Set up from a face up fan

Postby Bob Farmer » February 8th, 2019, 5:16 pm

The reference for the Irv Weiner corner-shorted deck is p. 299 Hugard's Magic Monthly, June 1955.

However, there are earlier references for this deck and these are canvassed in the Super-Strip discussion in The Miracle Makers by J.G. Thompson Jr., 1975, pp. 78-79. He traces the idea all the way back to Peter Warlock's 1941 book, Designs For Magic.

Today, corner shorters are easily found: I use a 1/4" radius for this type of deck. For a more subtle cut use a 1/8" radius (which matches the radius on Bicycle cards).

One of the logical problems with cutting the Aces is why remove the aces from the deck to then reinsert them--why not just cut to the aces. I offer a solution for this issue, as well as a way to set up the deck as the Aces are initially removed in this manuscript:

https://www.lybrary.com/cheat-p-922452.html

In using the Super-Strip deck note Vernon's idea of tapping the corner of the deck that has a corner-shorted card (reference ?): this causes the card to injog and it can be cut to. To use this idea, reverse the four aces in the Super-Strip deck and cut to them one at a time. Actually, with a regular deck, just corner short the four aces. To make them look consistent, corner short all four corners. With these methods the spectators can shuffle the deck and there is no need to remove then reinsert the cards.

For the last Ace you can do a no-setup countdown using John Booth's Cards of Cairo (My Best, p. 10). Cut the last Ace to the top of the deck. The spectator holds out two hands. You deal cards alternately into each hand and ask him to call stop at any time. When he does, stop so each hand has the same number of cards.

Ask him which packet he prefers: interpret his response so that you take the packet with the Ace on the bottom and place it on top of the deck. Have him count the cards he holds. Use that number to count down to the Ace.

Even simpler: cut the last Ace to the top of the deck. Spread the deck for a selection and have it revealed (e.g., Five of Hearts). Spell Five of Hearts and show the last card is not an Ace. Replace the packet on the deck. False shuffle the deck. Now spell it again and the Ace appears. That idea may be in My Best also, but can't find it at the moment.

Philippe Billot
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Re: Vernon's Cutting the Aces: Set up from a face up fan

Postby Philippe Billot » February 9th, 2019, 6:01 am

For those who have Marlo's Magazine, Volume 5 (1984), see page 216, Refined Ace Cutting.

"The following Ace Cutting effect is a refinement of an Ace locating method from "Riffle Shuffle Systems". Briefly, using any deck of cards which can be shuffled by the spectator you can cut to or locate the Aces for whatever purpose you have in mind."

There are some good ideas.


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