The Pass

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
performer
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Re: The Pass

Postby performer » June 24th, 2019, 5:19 pm

Steve Brooks is not putting his post on the secret sessions department or whatever he calls the silly place. He has put it out there for all to see. If you do the Bill in Lemon in your show the odds are quite high that someone is going to go on the internet to search for it since it is such a baffling trick. And the Brooks exposure would come up fairly conspicuously. Quite disgraceful. Instead of this "magicians helping magicians" twaddle that he spouts I think it should be renamed "Magicians exposing magicians". This is interfering with people who make a living with that trick.

All You Tube has to do is allow all the videos on magic. However, if a complaint is made then all they have to do is delete the bloody thing. An exception could be made if the video was a private one.

But nothing is going to happen unless an unholy fuss is made about it. However, for some odd reason nobody seems to want to make an unholy fuss about it. I find this all very odd since magicians have been making an unholy fuss about media exposure of magic secrets for ages and ages. Somebody exposes something on TV which is forgotten within hours but nobody cares about the internet for some odd reason.

Even Adolf Hitler banned the exposure of magic secrets in German newspapers so I suppose he got one tiny, tiny thing right.

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Re: The Pass

Postby performer » June 24th, 2019, 5:23 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Casual interest will not bring someone here looking for a trick explanation. Most people don't care about magic at all!


That is because most "magicians" are so crap that there is no reason for them to care. However, for the tiny few magicians who ARE good the laymen DO care! I KNOW they do! And they care so much they look up the secrets if they are baffling enough. I have even had people threaten me that they are going to look it up on google because I refuse to reveal how things are done.

It is true that a lot of people don't care about magic. Richard seems to be one of them.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Kent Gunn » June 24th, 2019, 6:37 pm

Mark,

I don't know if it's senility or just your obdurate nature that generates your caustic retorts.

Just because someone disagrees with you, you resort to ascribing weaknesses or a lack of caring to whomever you're railing against.

It's puerile and you should act more like a man of the cloth, as you've purported yourself to be. Your opinions would hold more weight if you didn't play the curmudgeonly old man at every turn.

You used bloody, in one of your posts, recently. I was shocked and disappointed in you. A few Americans who've resided in the UK, know what term, in America, that's synonymous. Shame on you, Reverend!

Now, behave yourself. Quit blaming your legion of shortcomings on the internet. If you'd perform a single piece of original magic, with a modicum of skill and a dash of panache, you'll charm, not alienate your audience. If you could stuff your confrontational persona into a change bag. Things will go much better.

I hope you are coming to the Genii convention. I'd love to trade barbs, in person.

KG

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Re: The Pass

Postby performer » June 24th, 2019, 10:21 pm

Kent. I have no intention of going to the Genii convention or any other convention for that matter. I find there are too many magicians there. Not that I consider you a magician of course. I consider you and many others here as merely laymen who happen to know how the tricks are done.

I refrained from commenting on your "originality" which you seem to be very proud of despite the fact that it complicates the effect of your cups and balls for no reason whatsoever and in fact I suspect makes it harder to follow. I believe originality is vastly over rated and very often what is considered original is not very good and would be better off let alone. As Al Baker once said, "Many a trick has been killed by improvement"

Tricks do not have to be original. The only thing which needs to be original is your personality and your manner of presentation. I should work on it if I were you and do try to make it high class and free from vulgarity and profanity which I vaguely remember from the past. There is enough low class "entertainment" in magic as it is.

The very first thing you learn in magic is NEVER TELL HOW A TRICK IS DONE! As a compassionate and flexible human being I have never been overly worried about people who break this rule since I don't think up to now it has done much harm. But that was then and this is now. The internet is very dangerous to the art and on a par with the dangerous incompetence of 90 percent of magicians. To me, if you are cavalier and dismissive about what is about to happen to the art of magic then to me you are uncaring about it.

The opinions of others are of no consequence whatsoever unless of course they agree with mine. As for my "modicum of skill" I am quite sure that I have far more of that than you have although I have always regarded technical skill as merely a means to an end. I have no need to listen to my entertainment inferiors with regard to "panache" and "charm". I know the reaction I get from laymen. And it is perfectly sufficient for my needs.

You really must accept that I am the master in this regard and you aren't.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Kent Gunn » June 24th, 2019, 11:15 pm

Mark,
Hope all is well in Canada. I understand you were in the hospital for a spell. I hope whatever affliction that had the temerity to accost you has passed.

You argued your points very well. Now this is the Mark Lewis I've come to admire and despise. Bloody better.

KG

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Re: The Pass

Postby performer » June 25th, 2019, 3:01 am

I am still unwell. However, at the moment I appear to be above ground.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 25th, 2019, 8:35 am

performer wrote:... If you do the Bill in Lemon in your show the odds are quite high that someone is going to go on the internet to search for it since it is such a baffling trick. And the Brooks exposure would come up fairly conspicuously. ....
I sent Steve a private message asking if he would move that item down to Secret Sessions - to keep it out of casual internet searches. -Jon
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Ray J
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Re: The Pass

Postby Ray J » June 25th, 2019, 8:43 am

Jonathan Townsend wrote:
performer wrote:... If you do the Bill in Lemon in your show the odds are quite high that someone is going to go on the internet to search for it since it is such a baffling trick. And the Brooks exposure would come up fairly conspicuously. ....
I sent Steve a private message asking if he would move that item down to Secret Sessions - to keep it out of casual internet searches. -Jon


Jon, thanks for doing that. Taking positive action is better than all of us complaining about things and not following through.

I received a nice email from Christian Schenk thanking me for letting him know about the guy who put up a video with his "explanation" of how the Destiny Deck works.

In his email he regrettably stated that we can't do much to prevent it, but he did post a comment on the youtube video addressing his concerns.

Internet exposure is not going to go away, but maybe we can put a dent in it through perseverance. Maybe some of the bad actors will get the message if we persist in explaining to them why it is hurting magic.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Joe Lyons » June 25th, 2019, 8:56 am

Ray J wrote:[Maybe some of the bad actors will get the message if we persist in explaining to them why it is hurting magic.


Lee Asher's take on it.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Ray J » June 25th, 2019, 9:25 am

Lee has some excellent points to make. I've read his comments before but thanks for sharing because some here might not have.

He agrees that we need to do something. He suggests building a bridge and approaching folks kindly. I agree with that approach. Make an attempt to encourage them into our community and adopt our practices.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Ray J » June 25th, 2019, 9:38 am

While we are on the subject and have strayed far from the original discussion about the pass, remember that topic?

I think it is important to draw some distinctions about what is going on today versus the past. In the past, as performer pointed out, magicians like Patrick Page got lambasted for publishing secrets in a book sold through public bookstores. At the time it was heresy. Magic didn't die. Back when Blackstone sold a booklet of magic tricks after his performances he was criticized. He had simple tricks in there and it was intended to spur interest in folks and hopefully grow the art. Still, some disagreed with the practice.

What is happening today is on a scale that is simply breathtaking. There are channels devoted to exposure. Any and all magic is exposed. I believe it is hurting the art and costing magic producers money. Marketed tricks are being explained so that you can make your own. How is that not injuring the magic community? Some creators may stop releasing products due to this practice. If they do, we all lose.

The recent example of the dude explaining his thoughts on the Destiny Deck are a prime example. He had no reason to post the video other than vanity I suppose. He does get a ton of views so maybe he is pandering to followers whom he wishes to placate. I don't know. But I reported it and Card-Shark responded to his video in the comments. Maybe that will sink in with him, maybe not. Perhaps it will sink in with a reader, who will stop visiting the guy's site. Who knows. As for me, I will continue to try to do what I can. Especially when marketed effects are involved as there is clear harm being done. And possibly illegality.

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Re: The Pass

Postby performer » June 25th, 2019, 11:18 am

Jonathan Townsend wrote:
performer wrote:... If you do the Bill in Lemon in your show the odds are quite high that someone is going to go on the internet to search for it since it is such a baffling trick. And the Brooks exposure would come up fairly conspicuously. ....
I sent Steve a private message asking if he would move that item down to Secret Sessions - to keep it out of casual internet searches. -Jon


I shall make a psychic prediction about that. He won't do a thing. It must have occurred to him in the past. He obviously wants it out there.

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Re: The Pass

Postby performer » June 25th, 2019, 11:35 am

I don't agree with this defeatist attitude that there is nothing we can do to stop internet exposure. There bloody well is. You Tube exposures can be stopped in one fell swoop. All we have to do is persuade You Tube to put a clamp on it. Nobody has actually tried in one concerted effort. I sent them a letter but one lousy letter isn't going to do much. They have to be DELUGED with letters and protests! I bet they don't even know there is a problem. How can you expect them to do anything when they don't even know there is a problem in the first place? Perhaps someone should tell them.

What has happened to all the idiots that used to picket Fox Television over the Masked Magician? Or all the twerps from the Magic Circle who screamed blue murder at the Pat Page book? Or the busybodies of the British Ring of the IBM who screamed blue murder at the Paul Daniels range of magic tricks sold in the shops? None of these so-called exposures were of any importance whatsoever and in fact I was quite in favour of them as they were good for magic and new magicians had to come from somewhere. However, the internet has gone too far and has crossed a line with me. So where are all the screamers and shouters now when magic IS being harmed? Are they intimidated by google and you tube? They have to persuade PEOPLE who run the companies, not the company itself. However, it doesn't seem as if anyone has even made even the tiniest bit of effort.

So far the position is neutral. You Tube haven't said they will ban exposures but they haven't said they won't. Wouldn't it be a good idea to ask them and keep asking them until we get an answer? If the answer is yes we can all celebrate and if the answer so that means we have to put up a fight. Maybe call up the newspapers and make a massive fuss about it. However, we won't know what to do until we at least ask them what their attitude is to a problem they probably aren't even aware of.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Ray J » June 25th, 2019, 1:16 pm

Mark, perhaps the leaders of all of the major magic associations could band together and write one letter to youtube asking that it do what it can to curb exposure. A letter from the leadership of the IBM, SAM, TAOM, etc. along with representatives of the Magic Castle along with the Magic Circle and any other international groups would carry some weight.

I can understand why they would be reluctant to do much as a result of individual reporting, but a consortium of groups might have a better chance.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Ray J » June 25th, 2019, 1:17 pm

Add the leaders of all of the popular magic forums to the list as well.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 25th, 2019, 1:41 pm

Performer, folks, it's a little deeper than YouTube. It's the basic search function on the internet.
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Bill+in+Lemon+magic+signed+trick

Just type in a few words and ... things happen. Asking folks not to post their practice videos without passwords is a fine first step among magicians.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: The Pass

Postby performer » June 25th, 2019, 5:11 pm

One letter is no good. It will be ignored. It should be many, many, many letters. The more the better. By all means the organisations can send a combined letter but more importantly they should send individual letters. And after Steve Brooks sets a good example and hides his bill in lemon trick so he doesn't look like a right lemon himself he should also send them a letter. And so should the editor of Genii Magazine whoever the hell that is. And every magic club in the world since there are rather a lot of them. Celebrity magicians should also do so. And non celebrity magicians should too.

They don't seem to know there is a problem. How can they be asked to solve it if they don't know it exists? Oh, and surely to God there is some magician somewhere who works at google who could put a little word in somewhere. And this is who you should write to:
https://www.forbes.com/profile/susan-wo ... 3c97723ae3

Her name is Susan Wojcicki. You Tube. With a bit luck she might just see her name on the genii forum right here if she happens to do a search for it as some people secretly do. Just write to her at You Tube's head office wherever it happens to be. You can all look it up yourself since I haven't the energy and I can't do everything for you.

This is what I suggest. You Tube doesn't have to do a damn thing. Let people post whatever videos that they want. However, the second an exposure video is flagged by some busybody magician as exposure You Tube takes it down in the same way they crack down on copyright videos. In fact it is much easier to crack down on this since you don't have to prove exposure the same way you do with copyright. All the google spies have to do is watch the video and as a reward for their industriousness can learn a few tricks to show their friends at parties. I would make an exception for a private or unlisted video.

In the meantime while all this is going on a plan B should be worked out just in case the effort comes to no avail. This is going to take a lot of effort. If some of you wish to bury your head in the sand and rationalise all sorts of excuses not to bother then you will all deserve the negative consequences that are going to happen in the long run.

Oddly enough exposure doesn't affect me personally because most of my secrets are well hidden from You Tube (although not all). It is the principle of the thing. As Scarne wrote
"A good trick is like a precious diamond" However, it is no longer a good trick or a precious diamond once the secret is known to the unwashed masses.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Bob Farmer » June 25th, 2019, 6:34 pm

I suggest posting Youtube videos with fake explanations of various effects, somewhat along the lines of the MAD magic book but more plausible.

https://www.amazon.com/Jaffees-Magic-Ot ... 0446944068

For example, for the Linking Rings, the video would show how a fake third arm and hand (from under the magician's suit coat) switches out the unlinked rings for two that are linked.

For the Bill In Lemon trick, a bill is shown on a lemon tree in time-lapse so a lemon grows around it. Then a secret assistant under a draped table switches that bill, after it is removed from the lemon, for the spectator's bill.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Joe Lyons » June 25th, 2019, 6:54 pm

Bob Farmer wrote:I suggest posting Youtube videos with fake explanations of various effects, somewhat along the lines of the MAD magic book but more plausible.

Hmm,(he says, stroking face) that’s just crazy enough to work!

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Re: The Pass

Postby performer » June 25th, 2019, 7:31 pm

Oddly enough Dunninger did something similar in regard to exposures in the Scientific American magazine.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Ray J » June 26th, 2019, 8:30 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:Casual interest will not bring someone here looking for a trick explanation. Most people don't care about magic at all!


Regarding your second statement, while true it points out part of the problem. Doug Henning was popular (among other reasons) because he cultivated a "sense of wonder". That wonder transferred into the public and that sense of wonder captivated them. Magic has always been shrouded in mystery and wonder. If, by letting loose all of the secrets, that mystery fades away, will anyone want to come watch anymore? If they do they will be staring at the cabinets looking for that mirror they read about.

People aren't stupid, they are in on the gag, nobody does REAL magic. But the mystery, the sense of wonder, I believe is what keeps them interested. Remove that and it is simply a puzzle.

A big deal was made over the David Copperfield testimony in the case involving a patron that was injured during one of his Las Vegas Shows. David himself was very upset that he was having to give specifics as to how one of his "signature" illusions was accomplished.

I think the amount of exposure that is present on the internet dwarfs Mr. Copperfield's concerns. By a longshot.

So what do we do about it. What I and others are doing is trying best we can to push back one incident at a time. It would be a full time job for hundreds of people at this point. So that means somebody else needs to help. Maybe think about how we might at least reduce the amount of exposure.

I clearly don't have the ultimate answer on how to do that, but maybe someone here will.

I do know that simply saying there is nothing that can be done about it isn't helpful.

Back in the day secrets were viewed as so precious that magicians kept them from each other. Now it seems many are content to have them shared with the world.

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Re: The Pass

Postby performer » June 26th, 2019, 8:37 am

Ray. At least you care. I appreciate that.

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Re: The Pass

Postby MagicbyAlfred » June 26th, 2019, 10:48 am

I was shocked to see that there is a video on YouTube by an established professional/cruise ship magician, Christopher James, revealing the Miser's Dream. Ironically, he also has a performance video of himself doing the routine in a professional show. It appears that even professional magicians have jumped on the exposure bandwagon, and are a part of the problem.

The profit-motive is obviously at the core of this epidemic - as those with YouTube channels clamor for views and likes, and thus advertising revenue. Too often, human greed and self-interest trumps ethical considerations. I think what Performer is saying, to quote a saying from back in the 60's: "If we are not part of the solution, we are part of the problem." I can understand his frustration. I have long been an animal rights advocate, and I know how hard it is to get people to see the moral (and environmental and health) repercussions of what they are doing, and to change.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 26th, 2019, 11:10 am

David Copperfield DID NOT reveal how "13" worked. The secret of 13 is how the people get from a box sitting in the middle of the stage, which you can see under, over, and behind, out of the box. The secret was not revealed.
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Re: The Pass

Postby Ray J » June 26th, 2019, 11:44 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:David Copperfield DID NOT reveal how "13" worked. The secret of 13 is how the people get from a box sitting in the middle of the stage, which you can see under, over, and behind, out of the box. The secret was not revealed.


I didn't say that he tipped all of the workings of the effect but there was great detail as to the movements of the people, their route to the roof, the fact that they were aided by guides backstage, etc. That is detail enough to cause many people to lose their sense of wonder.

My point was that David realizes that his stock and trade are under assault if the secrets become public knowledge.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Leo Garet » June 26th, 2019, 11:57 am

Ray J wrote:I didn't say that he tipped all of the workings of the effect but there was great detail as to the movements of the people, their route to the roof, the fact that they were aided by guides backstage, etc. That is detail enough to cause many people to lose their sense of wonder.

My point was that David realizes that his stock and trade are under assault if the secrets become public knowledge.


No you didn't. And it is clear that Copperfield cares, hence his discomfort.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Leo Garet » June 26th, 2019, 12:07 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Casual interest will not bring someone here looking for a trick explanation. Most people don't care about magic at all!

It might, but it won't take them long to realise that they're not getting what they think they're looking for. Then they'll clear off back to Youtube.

I think "Don't care about Magic at all" is harsh on Magic. Rather, I think people have their own interests and follow them. There are far more things that they're not interested in and Magic is one of them. Everybody's the same.

I care about Magic and Music and umpteen other bits and bobs. The list of stuff I have no desire to investigate is way to long to even contemplate itemising.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 26th, 2019, 12:22 pm

Ray J wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:David Copperfield DID NOT reveal how "13" worked. The secret of 13 is how the people get from a box sitting in the middle of the stage, which you can see under, over, and behind, out of the box. The secret was not revealed.


I didn't say that he tipped all of the workings of the effect but there was great detail as to the movements of the people, their route to the roof, the fact that they were aided by guides backstage, etc. That is detail enough to cause many people to lose their sense of wonder.

My point was that David realizes that his stock and trade are under assault if the secrets become public knowledge.


You wrote this: " David himself was very upset that he was having to give specifics as to how one of his "signature" illusions was accomplished."

You have no idea what was on David's mind. Trust me, you really don't. So don't presume to be able to read minds. And he didn't give "specifics" on how the illusion was accomplished. Walking through dark hallways ... does that really tell lay people anything? No.

And please don't argue this point with me, because I know more about this than you.
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Re: The Pass

Postby Jack Shalom » June 26th, 2019, 4:01 pm

My guess is that the possibility of exposure was publicity for Copperfield and increased business.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Ray J » June 26th, 2019, 4:48 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqHLl88vJek

Gives away a good trick, Tilt and talks about palming cards off. I guess this is OK?

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Re: The Pass

Postby MagicbyAlfred » June 26th, 2019, 5:40 pm

Ray J wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqHLl88vJek

Gives away a good trick, Tilt and talks about palming cards off. I guess this is OK?


Certainly not OK in my book! It irritates the living hell out of me that professional magicians are exposing core secrets to the world. I definitely do not believe this is out of a sincere desire to teach young magicians and get them interested in the art of magic. Just look at the Sensationalistic title of the video: "SHOCKING DAVID COPPERFIELD CARD TRICK REVEALED." This borders on being like the National Enquirer of Magic. These exposers are profiting from what they are doing, and so is YouTube/Google. Maybe one thing we can do is to type in magic trick or card trick revealed and/or magic trick or card trick exposed, and then when we get the search results, go to every exposure video and give it a dislike. Enough of those and they will not be getting advertising revenue and will have less motivation to post these despicable videos.

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Re: The Pass

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 26th, 2019, 8:33 pm

Jack Shalom wrote:My guess is that the possibility of exposure was publicity for Copperfield and increased business.


Nope.
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Re: The Pass

Postby performer » June 26th, 2019, 8:50 pm

Oh, who cares about David Copperfield!!. Even if he did expose his real method (and he probably didn't but I don't care if he did) it makes very little difference. I am far more worried about him stealing from Charles Dickens than him exposing or not exposing. The truth of the matter is that people will have forgotten the alleged method by now. In fact I have forgotten it myself. I have already stated that I don't give a toss about most exposure. However, the internet is a red line for me. It is a dangerous development and it seems that You Tube is the main culprit.

Somebody (in fact a lot of somebodies) should ask them politely to stop. If they refuse or give no response then decide on the next step.

As for Jay Sankey's video I suppose he would justify it by saying that since he invented it he can do what he likes with it. I don't think that is a valid justification since it seems he is exposing principles of magic which he DIDN'T invent. The real reason of course is that he has succumbed to the old adage, "Art for Art's sake---money for Christ's sake!"

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Re: The Pass

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 26th, 2019, 9:12 pm

I believe the subject of this thread is The Pass. Continue that discussion. Other comments will be deleted.
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Re: The Pass

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 26th, 2019, 11:31 pm

performer wrote:..."Make the pass in the usual way, but, as soon as the upper part of the deck has been transferred to the bottom, spread the cards of that packet with the left thumb on the fingers of the left hand, stretched out flat for their support. At the same time make a short quick remark, such as, "You see your card remains in the middle of the deck!" Close the spread smartly and execute an overhand shuffle, controlling the card as may be necessary.
A slight swing of the hands from left to right will help to make it appear that the spreading of the cards is all that has taken place."

I don't get that action - it's almost as if you could have injogged their card and picked it up during the overhand shuffle action without doing a pass.
Puzzled,
Jon
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Re: The Pass

Postby performer » June 27th, 2019, 5:20 am

Jon. I wrote that 40 or so years ago. I haven't the energy to reread it and figure out what it means. However, I can assure you that anything I write either now or decades ago should be taken as gospel.

But wait! I must investigate! It does sound familiar but I just realised I didn't write it at all! That is the text from the Royal Road to Card Magic. I had better go back over it after all and see what it is all about.

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Re: The Pass

Postby performer » June 27th, 2019, 5:41 am

I am afraid you will have to address your complaints to Hugard and Braue who are somewhat dead at the moment. I am merely nearly dead. However, if you feel that bad about it I know many psychic mediums who for a reasonable fee will be happy to convey your message to them.

My own observation is, (and I realised this decades ago) is that you don't even have to do an injog. You are holding a break anyway and simply have to lift off the top half above the break and shuffle them onto the face of the deck. No need to even do the pass. And I have indeed done that on occasion. It should be remembered that the Pass was invented in days of yore way, way before all the new methods and subtleties were invented to make it no longer necessary. You really don't have to do it as a control anyway--at least nowadays. It is still useful for other purposes but it is now outmoded for that specific use. The only reason I do it is because I learned it in ten minutes so I might as well use it. However, if you are going to do it anyway then at least shuffle afterwards. In fact for that described Royal Road manoeuvre under discussion I really think you have to since it doesn't sound that deceptive a cover for me.

The reason people here and other places don't want to shuffle after the pass is made is for reasons of ego. They figure their technique or their misdirection is so perfect that nobody suspects a thing. I happen to know that sometimes they do. Why take chances? Shuffle JUST IN CASE!

MagicbyAlfred
Posts: 1114
Joined: June 7th, 2015, 12:48 pm
Favorite Magician: Bill Malone
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC

Re: The Pass

Postby MagicbyAlfred » June 27th, 2019, 10:43 am

I know that this is a hot button topic, with fervently held views on both sides of the issue. But I'm going to agree with Performer. Why? Well, there is always the "magician's perspective" on a move, and then there is the magian's perspective on how he/she believes a layman will perceive something. Under either of those perspectives, the argument that the card was apparently "placed in the middle" and then "nothing happened," seems sound logically, and has definite appeal. However, there is - and I believe this to be paramount - the layman's actual perspective. The experience of the vast majority of laymen with playing cards, is in the context of playing card games, where the cards are virtually always shuffled (and more often than not, cut). So in a layman's paradigm, the element of fairness is completely lacking without the cards being shuffled and cut. My best teachers (laymen/women) have taught me that we must come to them on their terms if we truly wish to be convincing.

performer
Posts: 3189
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: The Pass

Postby performer » June 27th, 2019, 11:07 am

That last sentence of Alfred is very profound. I have tried to follow it my entire life. Any success I have had in close up magic is because of it. I first learned of that philosophy in the presentation section of Expert Card Technique where it emphasised that you should always see things from the spectator's perspective. I am constantly psychicing (no pun intended) myself up to do this. It isn't easy but it must be done if you are going to be any good or not. I would urge you all to go to page 441 in Expert Card Technique where this is discussed. They are applying it to tricks there but it can also apply to sleights.

ALWAYS TRY TO SEE THINGS FROM THE LAYMAN'S POINT OF VIEW. I make no apology for printing that in block capitals. It is very important indeed. There is a great danger for finger flingers and technicians to ignore this. They forget that magic is people and you have to be able to figure out the people and it is more important to do that than figure out the sleights. Vastly more important.

You have to try to think like a layman as much as possible. Years ago I stated this truth to a member of this very forum in person. He responded that it was impossible to think like a layman. Well, it is NOT impossible----just difficult. But you HAVE to do it if you are going to be any good and make astute judgements in your work.

And one very astute judgement is to shuffle after doing the pass, JUST IN CASE.

Dave Le Fevre
Posts: 79
Joined: December 24th, 2015, 10:29 am
Favorite Magician: Paul Megram

Re: The Pass

Postby Dave Le Fevre » June 28th, 2019, 5:05 am

performer wrote:He responded that it was impossible to think like a layman

One could try the following experiment.

Perform it twice for about half a dozen laymen, first with the shuffle and then without. Ask them which seemed more magical.

Then perform it twice for a further half a dozen laymen, first without the shuffle and then with. Ask them which seemed more magical.

(Each set of laymen could be individual performances or a group performance.)

I've no idea what it would prove, if anything.

Dave


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