A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
Christian Engblom
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A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Christian Engblom » October 25th, 2018, 6:51 pm

I have never posted on behalf of someone besides myself.
Today I make an exception, because this is something else.

CIB- Cards In Bag (see trailer here: https://youtu.be/xsbCxQAIqVs)

Alexandra Duvivier, the daughter of Dominique Duvivier,
recently showed a very special trick for Penn&Teller on Fool Us.
She FOOLED them, BADLY.

Having been fooled myself years earlier by the same secret, I could only
sympathize with their predicament. :) and enjoy...

See full, uncut FOOL US performance here: https://youtu.be/D1hHZb9c9vY

This routine is a KILLER. It is VERY FOOLING, clean and super easy to boot.

Never has a method existed where you can allow the spectators complete freedom to
shuffle the cards face up and face down, and I do mean COMPLETE FREEDOM,
and yet be able to do a miraculous triumph without any hard work. No false moves.

As a matter of fact, you can perform all neccesary moves completely out of sight.

ANYONE CAN DO IT !!!

An “exotic dancer deck” can NOT accomplish what this speciality deck can.
And you get not one but TWO factory sealed Rider back decks that make
the miracles almost self working !!!
Only from Mayette Magie (with shipping from USA or EU available).
Get yours here: https://www.mayette.com/produit/cards-i ... 44672/bag/

I whole-heartedly recommend this to anyone who loves card magic.

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Bill Marquardt
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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Bill Marquardt » October 26th, 2018, 1:03 pm

Methinks I have discerned the method. Lips are sealed.

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Bob Farmer » October 26th, 2018, 1:16 pm

You have put the deck in a large black bag!? And it's a trick deck? You can do the same effects with a regular, borrowed deck. I fail to see the advantage here for audiences, though if it fools magicians maybe that's a market.

It could be adapted to an Invisible Pass:

1. Hold break over selected card.

2. Place hands in large black bag.

3. Do any Pass.

4. Remove hands from bag.

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 26th, 2018, 1:24 pm

Bob, it's a Triumph effect. Fooled me when I watched it on Fool Us.
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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Christian Engblom » October 26th, 2018, 2:01 pm

And you can do the routines without the bag too...
Just “think outside the bag...”
hehee

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Tom Frame » October 27th, 2018, 12:00 pm

This is a terrific effect! But its very design led me to a, if not the, method.

Since the only sense at her disposal is touch, the method must be tactile. Two words. Punch Deal.
"There is more to consciousness than meets the mind's eye." - Frame

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Christian Engblom » October 28th, 2018, 8:45 am

Nope

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 28th, 2018, 2:49 pm

This is not difficult to do.
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Al Schneider
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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Al Schneider » October 29th, 2018, 2:07 pm

OK, I'm fooled, should I care?
The single absolute truth is that we don't know.

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Chris Aguilar » October 29th, 2018, 3:33 pm

Surprised that P&T didn't closely examine the (presumably gaffed) deck afterward, as they have done with many other acts.

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby erdnasephile » October 29th, 2018, 4:16 pm

Tom Frame wrote:This is a terrific effect! But its very design led me to a, if not the, method.

Since the only sense at her disposal is touch, the method must be tactile. Two words. Punch Deal.


Although I realize that a punch deal is not used, IMHO, Mr. Frame's point still holds. That is: an intelligent layperson might posit that there is some way to feel the difference between the front and back sides of the cards, and then the target cards and the rest of the deck. Either that, or maybe a prearranged deck got switched in that big 'ol bag. These are NOT great theories, but they are somewhat plausible. So much so, that I'd bet that as flawed as those theories are, they would likely satisfy the layperson and thus would fail the"no possible explanation" filter I prefer.

Compare this effect to a standard Triumph effect (including Mr. Engblom's fabulous routines). In those, the deck magically straightens out right before your very eyes--no bag to hide things.

CIB is a very fine routine, I loved Alexandra's performance, and I have no idea how it works. However, as much as I hate to say it, the effect from the show just doesn't line up with my personal definition of magic. YMMV, of course.

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Christian Engblom » October 29th, 2018, 5:03 pm

To answer the question “I was fooled, but should I care?”
I believe that anyone who loves magic, cares, if they are truly fooled.
The bag may offer “too much cover” for certain magicians, but may prove valuable to others.

In my opionion, the bag is a presentational option.

It is not neccesary, and I was invited, as a guest, to teach my handling, sans bag, in the tutorial.
So pick your favorite handling and presentation.
The decks are designed to do more effects than triumphs too...
There are many uses...

A lot of people have opinions about many things they do not have first hand experience...
It means little.
Get it, use it and then your opinions will be based on knowledge.
That is valuable. IMHO.

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Al Schneider » October 29th, 2018, 11:53 pm

To answer the question “I was fooled, but should I care?”

Why should I care if I can see several solutions while barely thinking about it.
And I can see that a lay audience would suspect solutions that I know are silly.
And as a person that loves magic but has an interest in showing others magic but has no interest in that kind of magic;
why should I care if I could not see me performing the effect?

I was standing in the middle of Martin's magic shop in Detroit. A gentleman was standing in front of me. He offered to show me a magic trick. He showed me a quarter in the tips of his fingers. Then, without warning, his hands began flailing through the air. I put up my hands to protect my face. Then he suddenly stopped. He held his hand in front of my face. It was closed. His eyes got big staring at me as he slowly opened his hand to reveal nothing there. “I was fooled, but should I care?”
The single absolute truth is that we don't know.

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby erdnasephile » October 30th, 2018, 7:15 am

Magie Moderne Mayette has posted a video of C.I.B. sans bag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1Nwrj1JdXo

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Christian Engblom » October 30th, 2018, 7:24 am

Hi Al,

You may be correct that this is not for you, but having performed the routine for both magicians and lay audiences, I can attest to it’s effectiveness and magical impact.

I stake my reputation on it.

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Bob Farmer » October 30th, 2018, 10:29 am

Much better without the bag. I noticed the use of the Drawbridge Move. Here are some notes:

“The Drawbridge Move” was published as, “Triumph Handling” in CARDMAGIC, by Richard Kaufman, 1979, p. 11. It was independently invented by Farmer in 1975 who showed it to Frank Garcia. Richard Kaufman also showed Garcia the move. When Garcia started using it without credit to anyone both Farmer and Kaufman thought he had “borrowed” it from them.

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erdnasephile
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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby erdnasephile » October 30th, 2018, 10:39 am

Christian Engblom wrote:Hi Al,

You may be correct that this is not for you, but having performed the routine for both magicians and lay audiences, I can attest to it’s effectiveness and magical impact.

I stake my reputation on it.


Hi, Mr. Engblom: If I may please respectfully ask: Above you had noted you teach a no bag effect with the decks. Is the routine you prefer also of the Triumph variety?

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 30th, 2018, 11:29 am

Bob, I see a lot of mixing by pulling the halves apart and then reassembling them by "kissing" the halves (what you call the drawbridge move), however it doesn't appear to serve the same purpose.
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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Christian Engblom » October 30th, 2018, 11:44 am

Hello erdnasephile,

Although you can use the decks for other type routines as well, the one routine I like the most is of the Triumph kind.
I allow for three cards to be chosen freely, and replaced by the spectators (under the table, if seated), in such a way that I can not even see.

Then I proceed to shuffle and invite the spectators to join in on the shuffling part, flipping cards every which way “releasing their inner child”
The deck is a mess.
I give the cards another shuffle and show their mixed state, snap my fingers (substitute your own magic move here :D ) and show the final effect.
I also prefer to omit the bag.
Leaving the bag out, does mean that you must do “the dirty work” in the open, and therefore requires more skill.
To each their own.

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby AJM » October 30th, 2018, 12:59 pm

It so happened I came across the Fool Us clip the day before this thread was kicked off by Christian and I was impressed, even although the presence of ‘the bag’ didn’t quite sit right with me.

Such was my intrigue, I immediately ordered it when I realised that it had been released - not something I usually do.

In my view Mr E’s additional recommendation here is an added bonus given his wealth of experience.

I will however reserve final judgement until I get the decks into my hot little hands and have had the opportunity to explore further.

Cheers

Andrew
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erdnasephile
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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby erdnasephile » October 30th, 2018, 2:07 pm

Christian Engblom wrote:Hello erdnasephile,

Although you can use the decks for other type routines as well, the one routine I like the most is of the Triumph kind.
I allow for three cards to be chosen freely, and replaced by the spectators (under the table, if seated), in such a way that I can not even see.

Then I proceed to shuffle and invite the spectators to join in on the shuffling part, flipping cards every which way “releasing their inner child”
The deck is a mess.
I give the cards another shuffle and show their mixed state, snap my fingers (substitute your own magic move here :D ) and show the final effect.
I also prefer to omit the bag.
Leaving the bag out, does mean that you must do “the dirty work” in the open, and therefore requires more skill.
To each their own.


Thank you! That is very helpful. (Now I just have to brush up on my French to order from the site!)

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Al Schneider » October 30th, 2018, 4:03 pm

Thank you for pointing out that this is not my kind of trick. Contrary to the first post in this thread that suggests that the dear readers of this forum should see the bag trick as some kind of must do miracle. I simply wish to point out that such is not my opinion. The first post suggests that we can form no other opinion because we are fooled. Some great person indicated that not knowing how something works does not mean it was magic. Had the first post been along the lines of, I think this is a great trick what do you think, my comment may have been different if I thought to post at all.

I would rather see a discussion of card on the ceiling that we all know but in the eyes of the layman is an amazing trick. The bag trick isn't even a magic trick. It is a demonstration of superhuman skill and super sense of touch.

I'm sorry, I just don't get it. And, saying you get a great response from it does little to convince me. I do a lot of things that get a great response. Do you want a list?
The single absolute truth is that we don't know.

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Christian Engblom » October 30th, 2018, 6:50 pm

Hello Andrew,

Looking forward to your informed opinion.
Erdnasephile, here is a link to the english order page:
https://www.mayette.com/produit/cards-i ... 44672/bag/

And to Al Schneider,

As the add on the cover of your book goes:
”There’s Magic... then there’s Al Schneider Magic!”
It may not be yours, but it is still magic, eh ?
Let’s just agree to disagree, and part as friends ?

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Al Schneider » October 30th, 2018, 8:22 pm

I never thought of it any other way.
The single absolute truth is that we don't know.

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Bob Farmer » October 31st, 2018, 7:31 am

I admit it, I too have used a bag for an effect like this, however, I used it in reverse. The deck is placed in the bag and the bag is closed up and shaken to mix the cards. Then the bag is opened and clumps of cards are removed and placed in a row on the table showing a big mess of face-up and face-down cards. The mess is squared--that's all, just squared, no shuffling, etc.--then the deck is spread and all the cards are face up and in order, Aces, 2s, 3s, etc.

You can see the effect here without the bag idea:

http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S15401

The bag was used as a method for switching a regular deck for the gaffed deck so the effect could be used as a closer for a card routine.

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby erdnasephile » October 31st, 2018, 10:01 am

Christian Engblom wrote:Erdnasephile, here is a link to the english order page:
https://www.mayette.com/produit/cards-i ... 44672/bag/


Kiitos ystäväni! :D

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 31st, 2018, 11:53 am

? The effect is: You unshuffle a deck (can be done in the bag or openly). With option to have a few known cards left reversed.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Christian Engblom » October 31st, 2018, 12:58 pm

Any cards may be reversed in the end.
How many you wish, and which ones you want.

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 6th, 2018, 5:24 pm

So, this little beauty arrived in my home today. It's far more clever than any of the guesses at its method have been.
It does require some experience in handling cards.
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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby kevinm » January 24th, 2019, 12:25 pm

I ordered CIB from the above website on 12/10/2018; I received confirmation emails, although in French; my credit card was charged, and to date, have not received the item. I sent a follow up email to 'contactATmayetteDOTcom' on 1/17/2019, and haven't received a response.

Does anyone have another contact for Mr. Duvivier? Thank you, in advance.

Kevin

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 24th, 2019, 1:26 pm

You have to tell me what your name is in order for me to assist you. You can email me directly at moobooks@verizon.net.
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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby zido » March 4th, 2019, 6:45 am

I just happen to come along the Fool Us performance and really like the effect - especially appreciating the clever designed bits and pieces along the way to present a magical effect with a consistent story while covering the limitations enforced by the method.

However, I am little surprised, that decant card sharks seems to be fooled by the trick. Once I get into thinking about gaffet cards, it seems quite obvious, what kind of special design I would propose to work (and which is god in line with the handling in the above cited video 'sans sac'). Which brings me to my question concerning the deck provided with the trick: I am aware of the number of different methods to adapt the cards accordingly - ranging from rather straight forward simple to handle but also easy to spot modification to quite advanced manufacturing, which are nearly undetectable during 'normal handling' by lay audience (i.e. coming more from a background of gambling), but would require decent skills by the presenter.

Give, that the trick is meant to sell to a broader audience, I suspect, that very subtle modifications will not work for most of potential customers - hence, fear a solution more on the brutal side of what is possible, which is of not so much interest to me. Can someone comment on that - i.e. please NOT expose details, but just comment, if the gaffed deck coming with the trick would allow for a shallow inspection by the audience afterwards.

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Jack Shalom » March 4th, 2019, 7:02 am

When I saw this effect on Fool Us I thought to myself this is like doing a straitjacket escape behind a screen. I don't get the appeal to modern audiences. It's a bag. All sorts of things could be happening in there, even if I don't know exactly what. A magician could come up with a dozen possible solutions, and a non-magician could come up with a hundred. Call it the Too Imperfect Theory.

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby zido » March 4th, 2019, 7:29 am

I definitely agree, that one should get rid of the bag and just pretend to shuffle a bit more, which - with decent skills - is possible as already discussed above. However, I understand, that the bag version extends potential customer base for the trick...

To me it is a clever new usage of a specific principle of gaffed cards suggesting card manipulation skills to the audience, which are far beyond what in reality is needed to handle the effect - i.e. providing a seemingliy impossible deshuffling. Given this, the trick obviously involves some 'dirty' manipulations of the deck, for which you must find a reasonable explantation during the performance - to me thinking in the direction of Lennart Green's 'sloopy' handling of cards often works well.

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Re: A TRUE FOOLER -CIB, by Dominique Duvivier

Postby Bob Farmer » March 6th, 2019, 12:28 pm

I've come up with a slightly more impossible effect using the props.

A second deck with a contrasting blue back is shuffled and spread face down on the table. Three unknown cards are removed from the spread (no force, spectators choose the cards). The deck is squared and turned face up. The three unknown face-down cards are inserted face down into different parts of the deck and the deck is placed into its card case so it cannot be tampered with.

Now the red-backed deck is mixed up and placed in the bag in the usual manner.

The red-backed deck is removed from the bag and spread face down and there are only 3 cards face up.

The blue-backed deck is removed from its case and spread face down to reveal the identities of the mystery cards previously chosen: they match the face-up cards in the red-backed deck.

Thank you to Andrew Murphy for making this effect possible.


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