Gimmicked Three Card Monte vs. Real

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
MagicbyAlfred
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Re: Gimmicked Three Card Monte vs. Real

Postby MagicbyAlfred » March 22nd, 2018, 8:50 pm

Ian Kendall wrote:The main difference is that the gaffed versions look nothing like the monte as played on the street (at all). So, if you are presenting something as representative of the 'three card monte', and referencing that game, then it would be strange to use a mid-pipped card.


I agree with Ian's thinking on this. If a magician is presenting the monte not as a demonstration of the actual hustle, and authenticity is not a concern, and your paramount goal is to blow away the audience with the strongest magic possible, then, by all means, go gaffed to the hilt if you like. The only caveats I would add are (1) Just be sure not to get busted; and (2) be sure the presentation is not such that would lead a person with common sense or reasonable logical abilities to conclude that it could only have been done with "trick cards."

Literally as I was writing this, I had a bit of an idea. I think if I were to start doing the effect with the Ultimate Monte gaffed set, I would get one of those small Himber card wallets. After the routine, I would put them in the wallet, then as an afterthought, open the wallet back up and take out the corresponding non-gaffed cards (Ace, two and three), put the wallet away, and say something like, "What's amazing is that the trick was done with ALL aces [flustration count] then toss the cards onto the table face up with a smile."

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: Gimmicked Three Card Monte vs. Real

Postby MagicbyAlfred » March 22nd, 2018, 9:10 pm

For some reason, I could not edit my prior post, but I wanted to add that needless to say, the gaffed cards would be kept in the Himber wallet and initially taken out from there at the start of the routine. Also, after the cards were tossed face up following the frustration count at the end, I would leave the cards on the table for a bit, so that if anyone wanted to check them out they could, and after a little while, pull out the wallet and put them away as if I'd forgotten to do so earlier.

Dave Le Fevre
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Re: Gimmicked Three Card Monte vs. Real

Postby Dave Le Fevre » March 23rd, 2018, 6:09 am

MagicbyAlfred wrote:I think if I were to start doing the effect with the Ultimate Monte gaffed set, I would get one of those small Himber card wallets.

I gaffed a plastic packet-trick wallet by inserting an extra pocket within the clear pocket. The vanilla cards are visible. The U3CM set are concealed.

I necktie the wallet when removing and replacing the U3CM cards.

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: Gimmicked Three Card Monte vs. Real

Postby MagicbyAlfred » March 23rd, 2018, 8:08 am

That's a clever idea, Dave.

Dave Le Fevre
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Re: Gimmicked Three Card Monte vs. Real

Postby Dave Le Fevre » March 24th, 2018, 5:07 am

Alas, like the majority of the clever ideas that I employ, I didn't originate it. I read it on a conjuring forum yonks ago.

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erdnasephile
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Re: Gimmicked Three Card Monte vs. Real

Postby erdnasephile » March 24th, 2018, 6:16 am

I believe the idea was published by Michael Close in his Workers series.

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: Gimmicked Three Card Monte vs. Real

Postby MagicbyAlfred » March 24th, 2018, 9:17 am

It has been gently brought to my attention that I am not the first to think of the Himber wallet in connection with a clean-up for the Ultimate Monte. And now my frail ego is crushed (OK, just kidding, it's bigger than ever). I am told, that Michel Ammar, for one, has used the HW in his routine. Was he the originator of the idea? I have no idea. My understanding, from reading up on this a bit, is that the strategy of magicians who have used the HW in conjunction with the routine have done so as a means of insurance; in other words, the cards are placed into the wallet at the end and stay there until if and only if someone asks or demands to see them, or maybe contends they are less than on the up and up. I think that the schtick of taking "the cards" out again, as an afterthought, after placing them in the wallet at the end, in order to "show them one more thing," doing a fLustration count to show that it was, in fact, done using "all aces," then immediately tossing the cards (an ungimmicked ace, two and three) face up on the table may have been my idea. But if someone else thought of it first, well then, hey, c'est la vie. I am not even entirely convinced that it is that good of an idea, or even necessary, because I haven't performed the routine, let alone field-tested it over any significant number of trials. However, working in bars has made me anticipate the brash and the grabby. (*new idea for magic soap opera?)

But then this begs the question of whether the cards should even be introduced from any kind of wallet or receptacle other than the deck itself? Is that not innately suspect, particularly if one has done prior tricks using the full (or nearly full) deck? True, the cards in the traditional, ungaffed 3 Card Monte are not generally taken out of the deck (although I believe I read that Performer does so). But even if the cards in the ungaffed monte are not introduced from out of the deck (e.g. I keep mine in my shirt pocket or top jacket pocket - just the cards, no wallet or container), they are nevertheless seen face up throughout the routine and, of course, can or could be examined before, during and/or after. Furthermore, the cards are always at least somewhat bent lengthwise when I introduce them, and I explain that this is done for ease of pick-up and that it is how the actual 3 Card Monte hustlers do it. And it is actually surprising how many people I have come across who either know about the game, have seen it played live or on video, or in a movie, or have even themselves been victims. So, all in all, suspicion-wise, I think it is different taking the ungaffed cards out separately (i.e. not from the deck) versus doing that with the gaffed ones. Of course, I am pretty sure that there are those who introduce the gaffs form the deck - but that still leaves the clean-up issue. And anyone who wants to tell me that if the gaffed routine is presented the "right way," nobody will ever suspect, or ask to see, or grab for, the cards, I would suspect has not performed in bars very often. Moreover, suspicious and skeptical people, or those who are astute and logical, are not confined to those who patronize pubs.

Which leads to the problem of: Does anyone really turn over a card with their thumb virtually always completely covering the bottom pip of a card (except of course when they turn over the deuce as an (to me, unconvincing) acquitment, and, if anything, a tell? Is it just me, or does that look really unnatural? (If someone says that it is just me, I won't get offended). And even if they did not turn over the two any differently than the others, that would not allay suspicion, but arguably even compound it. All of this being said, I have it on very good authority that the gaffed, Ultimate Monte style routine absolutely kills. Maybe it's just not for me - I like throwing cards about and not stressing out over how dirty I am throughout the routine, and what life would be like if I were to be adjudged guilty of magical fraud.

Like so many things in life, it might just come down to different strokes for different blokes...

performer
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Re: Gimmicked Three Card Monte vs. Real

Postby performer » March 24th, 2018, 10:03 am

I would not be over keen on using gaffed cards for this trick if working impromptu where I do most of my close up magic. It looks terribly fishy taking them out of a wallet. For a set show there may well be a case for it.

Having said that I used to carry a wallet when I was younger will all sorts of packet tricks. The difference was that just like Alfred mentioned all the cards could be examined when I finished. My favourite was the 3 and a half of clubs. I also used to carry Corinda's Odd Man Out which was a wonderful colour change of a small packet of cards which was worked by psychological means. I also used to carry Jon Tremaine's Voodoo Spirit which I think was based on a Dr Jacks idea. However, everything could be examined if people wanted to do so.

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Brad Jeffers
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Re: Gimmicked Three Card Monte vs. Real

Postby Brad Jeffers » March 24th, 2018, 5:06 pm

I once saw someone conclude their performance of Ultimate Monte by using the Eric Decamps ruse; which he employs in his Wild Card routine; of changing the gaffed cards into money.

I liked it.

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erdnasephile
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Re: Gimmicked Three Card Monte vs. Real

Postby erdnasephile » March 24th, 2018, 5:09 pm

Brad Jeffers wrote:I once saw someone conclude their performance of Ultimate Monte by using the Eric Decamps ruse; which he employs in his Wild Card routine; of changing the gaffed cards into money.

I liked it.


Agreed. I think Bill Malone mentions that on his DVD.

Bob Farmer
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Re: Gimmicked Three Card Monte vs. Real

Postby Bob Farmer » March 24th, 2018, 5:49 pm

Mike Close has the ultimate and best solution for handing out gimmicked cards. He places the cards from the routine in a small envelope, seals it and hands it to the spectator so, "he can try it at home."

When he gets home, he won't find the cards; instead he'll find a ccouple of Mike's business cards.

This is the old envelope switch: a stack of small envelopes encircled by a rubber band. The top envelope has its flap cut off. All the other envelopes have business cards. Place the gimmicked cards in the flapless envelope and pull out the next envelope with the flap. Seal it and hand it over.

Thank you, Mike.

My other solution: when asked if they can examine the cards, I say, "Of course not!"

performer
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Re: Gimmicked Three Card Monte vs. Real

Postby performer » March 24th, 2018, 6:48 pm

That last sentence is not a very good solution I am afraid!

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: Gimmicked Three Card Monte vs. Real

Postby MagicbyAlfred » March 24th, 2018, 7:15 pm

Brad Jeffers wrote:I once saw someone conclude their performance of Ultimate Monte by using the Eric Decamps ruse; which he employs in his Wild Card routine; of changing the gaffed cards into money.

I liked it.


Yes I can see why; it is a fantastic idea! Not only magical, but a perfect clean-up. Don't mean to be a name dropper, but the first time I saw that fabulous, creative wild card routine {"Jokers Are Wild"), Eric did it in my apartment in Ft. Lauderdale circa 1995. Soon thereafter, although I needed no clean-up, I adopted the idea (an adaptation of Kaps' Flash Cash) for the climax of my 3 Card Monte routine. Back then, the plot of the routine was how I got hustled in the game, pattering about how, after I lost my money, "I didn't get discouraged, but went out and got myself 3 cards, started my own game, and [shake cards and they change into money] have been making money ever since."

I think I'm going to go back to that routine; it was really entertaining - and mainly leave the historical stuff to Ricky Jay.

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: Gimmicked Three Card Monte vs. Real

Postby Jonathan Townsend » March 24th, 2018, 9:58 pm

Darwin Ortiz published a Wildcard using a Himber Wallet (and other interesting ideas) back around 1977 in his first lecture. The blocking to get back to your wallet, envelope or deck at a time when folks are starting to reach for the cards is non-trivial. In Eric's Wildcard routine he's got his wallet and the deck on the table. The bills go into his wallet rather than having the cards examined. Yes, you could leave a bill out on the table and use that as a wildcard ... but anyway - think about the moment from the audience's perspective.

Back to the monte - how about routining the wallet into the effect so it's not interesting that you sometimes have the wallet in your hand?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time


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