Jason Ladanye

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
brianarudolph
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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby brianarudolph » September 1st, 2016, 1:10 pm

Video is a double-edged sword. There's a fine line between putting out enough stuff to get some attention versus overdoing it. When in doubt, less is more.

As one of my mentors said years ago after reading a 10-page resume someone submitted with their job application to our search committee: "He told us so much that we don't have to interview him now. Next!"

Bill Mullins
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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby Bill Mullins » September 1st, 2016, 2:09 pm

erdnasephile wrote:
Bill Duncan wrote:I'm amazed the Genii regulars didn't know of Jason's work. His YouTube channel is almost three years old, and Vanishing Inc promoted his book and still sells it. The book was reviewed in Genii.


Bill: do you happen to know what Genii issue the book is reviewed in please? Thanks!


Confident Deceptions was reviewed by John Guastaferro in Dec 2015. Also, Tony Cabral reviewed it in M-U-M in Sep 2013

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Chas Nigh
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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby Chas Nigh » September 1st, 2016, 4:25 pm

The camera does not lie.

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby Brad Henderson » September 1st, 2016, 4:36 pm

Chas Nigh wrote:The camera does not lie.


apparently you've never seen an episode of Mindfreak.

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby performer » September 1st, 2016, 5:06 pm

The camera most certainly DOES lie! I should know........................................

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erdnasephile
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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby erdnasephile » September 1st, 2016, 5:32 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:
erdnasephile wrote:
Bill Duncan wrote:I'm amazed the Genii regulars didn't know of Jason's work. His YouTube channel is almost three years old, and Vanishing Inc promoted his book and still sells it. The book was reviewed in Genii.


Bill: do you happen to know what Genii issue the book is reviewed in please? Thanks!


Confident Deceptions was reviewed by John Guastaferro in Dec 2015. Also, Tony Cabral reviewed it in M-U-M in Sep 2013


Hi, Bill: Thanks for the MUM reference--I'll look at it. I was familiar with the John G review in the Dec 2015 issue, but that was for the DVD set--I was wondering if the book of the same name was reviewed in Genii--I couldn't find it.

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby Joe Mckay » September 1st, 2016, 5:53 pm

I agree with the earlier praise for Jason's handling of the Open Travelers effect.

He has a great subtlety for secretly spreading the double card. I always thought there would be a way to improve this aspect of the trick but I never bothered to investigate since I don't perform it.

It seems as if Jason has proved my intuitions correct. His version of this is much better than any other I have seen. A pet hate of mine is seeing magicians slide across the top card to split the double. They all seem to do it. And it never looks good. Jason has found a way to make this part of the routine really pop as the cards seem to (ahem) pop out of his palm.

Mike Skinner is one of many magicians to screw up this part of the trick. They all do it. Sigh...

https://youtu.be/3bED5Y01XKM?t=1m30s

Now compare with Jason's handling:

https://youtu.be/1I6TlPjYIpE?t=47s

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby Joe Mckay » September 1st, 2016, 6:15 pm

I just love Jason's handling of this move.

Here he is doing the move another two times.

https://youtu.be/1I6TlPjYIpE?t=1m15s

https://youtu.be/1I6TlPjYIpE?t=1m44s

I never liked this trick until now. That final link above is my favourite. It looks perfect.

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby performer » September 1st, 2016, 6:38 pm

Ah! You are all back to technicalities! I am sure you are all far more comfortable with that kind of thing. One must enjoy one's hobby, I suppose.....................................

Pete McCabe
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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby Pete McCabe » September 1st, 2016, 9:16 pm

In addition to his Sunday lecture (on 9/18), he is also the late closeup performer the week of 9/12-18.

Bill Mullins
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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby Bill Mullins » September 1st, 2016, 11:20 pm

erdnasephile wrote: I was familiar with the John G review in the Dec 2015 issue, but that was for the DVD set--I was wondering if the book of the same name was reviewed in Genii--I couldn't find it.


The Genii review is of the book and the performance DVD that came with it.

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby Bill Duncan » September 2nd, 2016, 12:53 am

performer wrote:And I suggest some of the dafter people here investigate books from before that time. They will learn a lot. And one of the things they will learn is that all this allegedly newer stuff is old stuff rehashed.


I used to think that too Mark. All the old guys (before I was an old guy) used to tell me that. I investigated things, and what I found was that sentiment was usually wrong. David Roth's wonderful (and seldom improved) Karate Coin routine may have been preceded by Hugard's The Finger Gimlet, but there's a very important difference. The Roth routine is very good; the Hugard bit a forgotten footnote.

And, as I recall Hugard's bit was preceded by Scott in A Discoverie of Witchcraft. And that routine has since been reinvented, and better as well. But I'm not sharing who did that other than to say he's a friend of Josh Jay's and it's been published.

I agree that lots of folks who don't read, or know their history, reinvent basic concepts, and often in the rush to publish don't give the ideas the necessary polish. But compare Hugard's routine with Roth's and you'll see the same thing. A mildly clever concept, that languished undone because it's was just a clever idea.

Take a clever idea, add history, and mix with talent and inspiration, and you get diamonds. Or you can stick with coal.

At least you can heat the house with the later.

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby performer » September 2nd, 2016, 3:29 am

Oh dear. It appears that the more obscure Bill Duncan who has not been on Scottish television after all is once again contradicting me despite the fact that I am never wrong. As for David Roth I appreciate him greatly despite grumpy old Al Goshman once growling to me , "he hasn't got any presentation". In fact I consider Mr Roth to be one of the greatest magicians I have ever seen and easily the best coin magician in the world. And I think, despite what that old misery Goshman stated, to have excellent presentation. Very rhythmic almost hypnotic patter. And when I say "hypnotic" I am not talking about the kind that puts you to sleep.

However, one exception does not a rule make and in fact I suspect Mr Roth is pretty old school himself. As for Hugard I have one of the bound volumes of his magazine. There was a whole bunch of these put out some years ago. They always sit unsold forlornly on the shelves of my local magic shop and I think have been there for the last hundred years or so. And yet inside the covers of such are tricks which are light years ahead of the crap of today.

I shall stick to coal, thank you. There are a lot of fake diamonds about I am afraid.

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erdnasephile
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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby erdnasephile » September 2nd, 2016, 5:41 am

Bill Mullins wrote:
erdnasephile wrote: I was familiar with the John G review in the Dec 2015 issue, but that was for the DVD set--I was wondering if the book of the same name was reviewed in Genii--I couldn't find it.


The Genii review is of the book and the performance DVD that came with it.


Got it! (I see where I got confused: John G's book/performance DVD review is on pg 95-96 and then on page 98-99, Joe Turner reviews the 4 DVD set) Thanks for straightening this out for me.

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby Tom Gilbert » September 3rd, 2016, 1:09 pm

I thought he had some polished routines, but some cringeworth/Cervonesque patter.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 3rd, 2016, 2:19 pm

If the audience likes you, they'll think you're a great magician.

If the audience dislikes you, they'll think you're a schmuck.
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Q. Kumber
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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby Q. Kumber » September 3rd, 2016, 4:14 pm

With age one hopes for at least a little wisdom.

I can testify to the gems hidden in old books and magazines. Very few magicians under the age of forty have much interest in them, and even a little digging will reveal nuggets that with even a modicum of polishing will yield great dividends. Put in some decent work and you will have a masterpiece - as with the Roth routine referenced above.

Having recently bought some bound volumes of Abra from the early seventies, I came across this phrase from Graham Reed after he met Eddie Tullock at a trade show in London, "Laymen are only interested in the 'picture', not the 'brushes and paint'.

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby MagicbyAlfred » September 3rd, 2016, 4:19 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:If the audience likes you, they'll think you're a great magician.

If the audience dislikes you, they'll think you're a schmuck.


Very succinctly and aptly put.

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby Bill Duncan » September 3rd, 2016, 5:03 pm

performer wrote:Oh dear. It appears that the more obscure Bill Duncan who has not been on Scottish television after all is once again contradicting me despite the fact that I am never wrong.


Well, someone has to... otherwise we'd all be pitching Svengali Decks. I never suggested there weren't good ideas in old stuff, just that the first published user of an idea is almost never the best. And anyone who tells you it is, probably isn't as well read as he like to think he is.

And for the record Mark, the two books on my desk at the moment are The Secrets of So Sato, and Will Houstoun's The Notebook (which was originally published in 1800).

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby performer » September 3rd, 2016, 8:23 pm

Duncan old chap. Pitching svengali decks is a highly skilled profession. That is why you see so few people doing it. They just aren't capable. They don't have the timing, the showmanship and the knowledge of people. It is perfectly evident to me that you would not have what it takes. You can't even get on Scottish television.

I do not remember saying that the first published version was the best although it very often is. As Al Baker once said, "Many a trick has been killed by improvement". I should know since I invented a most horrible version of Out Of This World to rip off all the daft magicians. I knew it was absolutely horrendous but on the grounds that magicians will buy anything I thought their money would be far better off in my pockets rather than theirs. After all I know perfectly well that if you were to advertise gold plated thumb tips magicians would buy them simply because they were gold plated. But here is the astonishing thing. My damn trick got rave reviews even though it was the biggest load of crap every put together by man. I knew then that magicians have no conception of what entertains and what doesn't.

I still perform Out of This World exactly as Paul Curry described it with one tiny addition by George Blake. I have seen other alleged improvements the best being the UF Grant version. But even this does not compare with the original. So your tosh about the original not being the best is completely wrong. It usually is. I can think of many examples where alleged improvements make the bloody thing worse.

So I AM saying that "it isn't" And I am also saying I am VERY well read in magic. In fact incredibly well read. Surely you must have noticed that I know more than anyone else here. After all some of us are born to lead and some of us are born to follow. So of course you are talking tosh again as befits someone who cannot get on Scottish Television.

I will concede however, that I do not read obscure books from the 19th Century. The first half of the 20th Century is more my territory in these matters. After all that was when most of the incredible advancements in close up magic, particularly cards were made. Everything since then is just old stuff rehashed just like I said. And rehashed badly if I may say so. And of course I do.

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby JSalow » September 4th, 2016, 11:56 am

Technically he's really good. Presentationally it's not bad per se. My problem with it is that it seems too rehersed. It's great to be polished, but it doesn't seem like he's actually enjoying interacting with the spectators or having any legitimate back and forth with them. Some room needs to be left for improv/going with the flow.

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby alexcsurko » September 8th, 2016, 8:47 am

https://youtu.be/KjcVwB5UnLA

This is a dish best served here, although elsewhere seems more appropriate.

brianarudolph
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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby brianarudolph » September 8th, 2016, 10:16 am

I really like the premise of Jason's Best for Last. It was actually the effect that made me buy his book when it came out a while back.

But it still amazes me how his cadence and voice is eerily like Darwin's. Just to experiment I closed my eyes for a few seconds during a couple of his presentations and there were many times when I'd swear I was actually listening to Darwin himself. Of course, since I've seen Darwin many times in person and on video and know that Jason is a protege, it's pretty tough for me not to see and hear Darwin in Jason.

But I do hope Jason evolves out of this perception of mine. The spectators in his videos seem to be significantly "on the outside" of his performances rather than engaged in them with Jason.

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby Matthew Field » September 8th, 2016, 11:03 am

Richard K. -- I associate the "spreading action", "the right hand is held so the palm faces left, and the lower side of the hand descends onto the double card, when the hand is turned palm down and lowered the cards will spread", with Larry Jennings himself. I've shown it to many magicians (a couple well-known) at The Magic Circle when I've seen them smear the cards to the right, but few seem to understand why I dislike that latter move -- to me it makes it obvious what's happening -- and fewer still have adopted it. Am I mistaken about Jennings doing the move? ('m pretty sure I saw it on one of his videos.)

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby performer » September 8th, 2016, 1:16 pm

He talks far too much at the beginning before the trick has even started. I have already mentioned this is a common fault of magicians. Maybe he got that from Darwin Ortiz too-I have no idea. You have to start a trick straight away without all that boring waffle at the beginning just in case someone like me falls asleep.

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby Brad Henderson » September 8th, 2016, 1:50 pm

alexcsurko wrote:https://youtu.be/KjcVwB5UnLA

This is a dish best served here, although elsewhere seems more appropriate.


seems like just a personalization of Jim swains routine - complete with the use of the hands of poker card.

I didn't finish watching. he didn't hold my attention. there was no escalation in what he was doing dramatically

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby MagicbyAlfred » September 8th, 2016, 3:57 pm

I am not in the business of judging other magicians, as Lord knows, I have eons to go myself, but if one posts a voluminous amount of video-graphical material featuring oneself, it is inevitable that it will invite scrutiny. I was struck by the emulation of Darwin (the magician, not the evolutionist), right down to the rolling up of both shirt and suit jacket sleeves (a look, quite honestly, that I was never a fan of). Now don't get me wrong, I think Darwin's exceptional card handling should be emulated, but in terms of persona, if we don't find and radiate our own unique and natural character and personality, the audience (be they magicians or laymen) will always know, and it will hold back the performer from being all that he/she can be...

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby performer » September 8th, 2016, 5:30 pm

But how would a lay person know he was aping Darwin since presumably he or she had never heard of him? Would it just be an instinctive thing that something was not quite right? Just curious............................

But yes. Methinks we (and that includes me) have been too cruel to him. He isn't that bad, you know. I will give him 7 out of 10. It should really be 6 but I am feeling generous today. Any advance on six?

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby MagicbyAlfred » September 8th, 2016, 9:41 pm

performer wrote:But how would a lay person know he was aping Darwin since presumably he or she had never heard of him? Would it just be an instinctive thing that something was not quite right? Just curious............................

But yes. Methinks we (and that includes me) have been too cruel to him. He isn't that bad, you know. I will give him 7 out of 10. It should really be 6 but I am feeling generous today. Any advance on six?


Yes, I think it would be an instinctive thing.

For the record, from a technical standpoint, I am sure that there are many magicians that would be thrilled to handle a deck of cards as well as he does.

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby Bill Duncan » September 10th, 2016, 4:23 pm

performer wrote:Duncan old chap. Pitching svengali decks is a highly skilled profession. That is why you see so few people doing it. They just aren't capable. They don't have the timing, the showmanship and the knowledge of people. It is perfectly evident to me that you would not have what it takes. You can't even get on Scottish television.

Oh Mark,
I've seen lots of people pitch the deck (including you, on video). To my mind the best are my buddy Tom (because he actually loves people and it comes through in every performance no matter what he's doing), and the guy who sold me my first magic trick, Tommy Windsor.

And not to put too fine a point on it, but plumbing is a highly skilled profession too. I have almost as little interest in that.

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 10th, 2016, 4:34 pm

Danny Tsukalis, who was the magic demonstrator at Macy's in New York for many years, did a brilliant Svenagli pitch. I only remember one specific part of his handling, which I still use should a Sven deck find it's way into my hands, but the casual way he handled the deck itself was what sticks in my mind the most.
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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby performer » September 10th, 2016, 8:07 pm

Bill Duncan wrote:
performer wrote:Duncan old chap. Pitching svengali decks is a highly skilled profession. That is why you see so few people doing it. They just aren't capable. They don't have the timing, the showmanship and the knowledge of people. It is perfectly evident to me that you would not have what it takes. You can't even get on Scottish television.

Oh Mark,
I've seen lots of people pitch the deck (including you, on video). To my mind the best are my buddy Tom (because he actually loves people and it comes through in every performance no matter what he's doing), and the guy who sold me my first magic trick, Tommy Windsor.

And not to put too fine a point on it, but plumbing is a highly skilled profession too. I have almost as little interest in that.


If your buddy Tom whoever he is loves people he must be absolutely dreadful as a svengali pitchman. It is a job requirement to hate the bloody site of all the vermin in front of you who are walking about with your money in their pockets. Ask Don Driver, another well known svengali pitchman. He hates mankind too particularly me. And selling svengali decks is not a "performance". It is an exercise in ripping off the public in the way they most certainly deserve.

Dearie me. Some of you have led very sheltered lives it seems. Oh, and as for Tommy Windsor he stole the svengali pitch from David Walker who wasn't terribly happy about it. But he didn't do that much with it anyway. He just wrote an inferior book about it.

Furthermore your pal "Tom" whoever on earth he is cannot possibly be the best. When he can sell 400 decks a day then he can make the claim. I have. Many, many times.

And as for your rather silly statement that you have little interest in svengali pitching may I gently remind you that YOU are the one who brought the matter up in the first place.

You cannot win with me, old chap. No wonder you can't get on Scottish television.

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Re: Jason Ladanye

Postby performer » September 10th, 2016, 8:22 pm

Now here is a bit of Eddie Fields with the svengali deck. I was quite surprised how much he fumbled with it and couldn't do the standard "run" move properly. And how slowly he talked. What I did find interesting is that he did a move (the spread) which nobody seemed to know anything about until I explained it in my Long and Short of It book. Although it is a very old move probably invented by Joe Stuthard I have never ever seen a single American magician do it. Eddie Fields did in that video although American pitchmen never use it probably because they work so high above the punters on a rostrum so they never see the table. A most inferior way of working. You have to be right down among the vermin to be able to relieve them of their money properly.

If you find it surprising that I call them "vermin" you must remember a different mentality is required to relieve people of their money. Howard Thurston used to look out at his audience, jump up and down saying how much he loved them. Grafters (the proper word- not that silly Americanism "pitchman") look at their audiences, jump up and down saying "I detest these people. Let me relieve them of their money"

If you wonder why then do this work for at least three weeks and you will soon discover the answer.

Anyway here is Eddie Fields:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5j16k ... -magic_fun


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