Need help with a card move

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
Jack Shalom
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Need help with a card move

Postby Jack Shalom » December 26th, 2015, 1:52 pm

Hi, hope someone can help me. I have an eight-card packet; I need to transfer the top card to the bottom with the appearance of doing nothing outwardly. What are my options? A classic pass seems a bit fiddly with such a small packet. Thanks.

James
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Re: Need help with a card move

Postby James » December 26th, 2015, 2:12 pm

You can try a side steal, essentially "stealing" the bottom six cards and bringing them to the top, as you square the packet.

Orlan
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Re: Need help with a card move

Postby Orlan » December 26th, 2015, 5:31 pm

Can you give us a clue as to what the routine is about? Can you spread the cards? Are the cards face up or face down? Can you show the faces, or not? Will you be counting the cards? Is it oil and water?
I'm just trying to come up with a justification for a move that doesn't look like a move.

I just took out 8 cards and came up with this. Maybe you can work it in your routine?

I'm going to imagine for a second you are doing some kind of oil and water and need a one card displacement to start off the routine.

Let's say you just showed 4 black cards and 4 red cards. You turn them face down, and put the red cards on top of the black cards.

Now as you say, "don't forget the red cards are in my right hand and the black cards are in my left had" you do the following:

The 8 cards are face down, reds on top. Peel off the first red card with the thumb on top, first and second fingers underneath. Count the next three cards on top of the first one (you can reverse the order of the next three, or leave them as is- basically doing an open Hofzinser cull by riding the three cards on top of the first one you counted.) Now slightly spread the black cards in your left hands. With your right hand, do a block push off of the top three cards (they should not be squared, you are openly showing the blacks and reds are separated). Briefly show the faces of the reds an blacks.

Spot check: your left thumb spread the black cards by pushing right and your right hands did a block push off to the left. What was the top card is now on the bottom of your right hand packet.
Now as the hands come together to replace the red cards on top, the top left card can easily contact the second from the bottom face of the cards in your right hand. It acts as a guide. From the top it looks like you just replaced the red packet on top, but from the bottom what happened is that you "culled" the bottom card of your right hand (previously the top card) all the way to the bottom.

Whew, now I know why all the kids now a day prefer video, would have taken 5 seconds to demonstrate! :D

performer
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Re: Need help with a card move

Postby performer » December 26th, 2015, 6:05 pm

I have a strong suspicion you don't have to do much at all. I will explain later when am in the mood

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Q. Kumber
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Re: Need help with a card move

Postby Q. Kumber » December 26th, 2015, 6:17 pm

Hold the packet and take off the top card as you gesture with it, asking someone a question.
Then after a moment or two, casually place it on the bottom.

Jack Shalom
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Re: Need help with a card move

Postby Jack Shalom » December 26th, 2015, 7:39 pm

Thanks, all good ideas.
Yes, it's an oil and water, and I'm the one displacement away from a double Elmsley display. Probably some version of Orlan's move would work. Thank you.

performer
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Re: Need help with a card move

Postby performer » December 26th, 2015, 8:10 pm

It seems that my idea has already been explained.

Orlan
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Re: Need help with a card move

Postby Orlan » December 26th, 2015, 8:55 pm

Jack Shalom wrote:Yes, it's an oil and water, and I'm the one displacement away from a double Elmsley display.


Maybe you don't even need to disguise the move at all and you can even call attention to it. If this happens before you mix red and blacks, you can do something like the move I described above.

But if the cards are supposed to be already in red/black order (regardless of their real order), you can say "Right now the cards are in red/black/red/black order. If you think about it, if I move one card from the top to the bottom, now they are in black/red/black/red order, but they still remain mixed. However if I wait 3 more seconds, you can now see they have once again separated and here are the black, and here are the reds"... etc. If you are in the correct position, you may even throw in 2-3 card display of the black/red order before showing them separating.

Hope that helps!

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: Need help with a card move

Postby Jonathan Townsend » December 26th, 2015, 9:51 pm

Just a thought: Pick up and display a double card. Then steal the extra off under the packet a moment later.

No, wait a sec... you're gonna divide the eight card packet in two, then count each packet separately?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Dave Le Fevre
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Re: Need help with a card move

Postby Dave Le Fevre » December 27th, 2015, 4:53 am

Orlan wrote:But if the cards are supposed to be already in red/black order (regardless of their real order), you can say "Right now the cards are in red/black/red/black order. If you think about it, if I move one card from the top to the bottom, etc

That's how it's done in Ben Harris's Slick

Bob Farmer
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Re: Need help with a card move

Postby Bob Farmer » December 27th, 2015, 10:14 am

Jack: You can use a variation of my "Bammo invertolator" move. It looks like you simply turn the packet over and the deed is done. The basic move is described in Genii somewhere and in my marketed trick, the "Bammo Card Walloper,"--but the variation is not.

However, you need to turn the packet over.

The other solution: see Dai Vernon's "Slow Motion Aces," STARS OF MAGIC, pp. 90-95. there is a bottom palm described at p. 94.

Bottom palm all the cards under the top card, move the right hand away for a second than back to square the packet and replace the cards.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Need help with a card move

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 27th, 2015, 11:13 am

These (except for Quentin's suggestion) all seem like very labored ways to move a single card in a small packet.
I would just put the packet on the table. Talk for a second, then slide off the top card and use it to scoop up the packet before returning it to the hand. Now speak another line of patter that either makes the spectators laugh or requires them to think about something. That will erase the memory of what you've just done.
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Jack Shalom
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Re: Need help with a card move

Postby Jack Shalom » December 27th, 2015, 12:54 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:No, wait a sec... you're gonna divide the eight card packet in two, then count each packet separately?

Exactly. I think Richard's idea may be the most appropriate given where I am in the routine. In the act of turning over the tabled pack to split them into two face-up packets, I can use the top card as a scoop.

Or... packet in left hand, thumb off top card to the table and dump the rest of the pack on top in almost one motion with Orlan's justification or maybe even no justification at all?

Anyway, thanks for the ideas!

performer
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Re: Need help with a card move

Postby performer » December 27th, 2015, 2:11 pm

As I said you don't need to do very much at all. I knew this within seconds of reading the problem.Magicians love to make easy tricks difficult when they don't have to.

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: Need help with a card move

Postby MagicbyAlfred » December 27th, 2015, 6:42 pm

I agree with Q's and RK's suggestions. However, if for some reason that doesn't end up feeling natural for what you are doing with the packet at that moment, and cutting the packet would be appropriate, you can always double undercut the top card to the bottom under the express or implied pretext of "fairness."

Gerald Deutsch
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Re: Need help with a card move

Postby Gerald Deutsch » January 6th, 2016, 10:55 am

Richard's suggestion seems the best.

If you're seated you can lap the top card and then add it to the bottom as you slide the packet off the table.


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