What Are The Most Used Gimmicked Cards? [NEED HELP]

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cardlover
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What Are The Most Used Gimmicked Cards? [NEED HELP]

Postby cardlover » September 12th, 2015, 11:51 am

If the person decided to use gimmicked cards, she want to get tips: which one are suitable for a large number of simple and strong tricks, which one are most popular?

Are there experts and amateurs who can answer?
Thank you in advance!
Last edited by cardlover on September 13th, 2015, 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Brad Jeffers
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Re: Gaffs In Ideal Trick Deck

Postby Brad Jeffers » September 12th, 2015, 5:17 pm

Image
How did I ever manage to get by without one of these?

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Re: Gaffs In Ideal Trick Deck

Postby cardlover » September 13th, 2015, 9:15 am

Brad Jeffers wrote:How did I ever manage to get by without one of these?


Did you mean that there is no reason to include any gaff cards (with standard set of cards) into the deck designed for magicians but suitable for card games?

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Re: Gaffs In Ideal Trick Deck

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 13th, 2015, 10:53 am

Using gimmicked cards is a choice.
You could easily go your entire life and never use one.
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Re: Gaffs In Ideal Trick Deck

Postby mr_goat » September 13th, 2015, 11:04 am

cardlover wrote:
Brad Jeffers wrote:How did I ever manage to get by without one of these?


Did you mean that there is no reason to include any gaff cards (with standard set of cards) into the deck designed for magicians but suitable for card games?


No reason unless you're selling to kids who buy stupid "designer" decks from e or d&d or Madison etc

You won't find that sort of audience here.

Try the magic cafe or e forum or something.
Yes, it is mrgoat, I just can't log in with old account.

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Re: Gaffs In Ideal Trick Deck

Postby Mr Hurley » September 13th, 2015, 11:55 am

The only gaff decks I know of besides Svengali and Stripper are Madison Players and, I think DMC Black deck, I think is the name?

mr_goat wrote:
cardlover wrote:
Brad Jeffers wrote:How did I ever manage to get by without one of these?


Did you mean that there is no reason to include any gaff cards (with standard set of cards) into the deck designed for magicians but suitable for card games?


No reason unless you're selling to kids who buy stupid "designer" decks from e or d&d or Madison etc

You won't find that sort of audience here.

Try the magic cafe or e forum or something.


=hides face=

...but...I only have 2 decks from them...

But you're right, you can seriously get by using only Bicycles and be all right

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Re: Gaffs In Ideal Trick Deck

Postby performer » September 13th, 2015, 11:57 am

The strongest card trick I know (for me anyway) uses three gimmcked cards. I have no hesitation in using them.

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Re: Gaffs In Ideal Trick Deck

Postby cardlover » September 13th, 2015, 3:10 pm

mr_goat wrote:You won't find that sort of audience here.

Try the magic cafe or e forum or something.


Gentlemen, I sell nothing here, whether it's possible to sell some useless thing? I just ask for advice

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Re: Gaffs In Ideal Trick Deck

Postby performer » September 13th, 2015, 3:30 pm

I certainly understood your intention. You were researching rather than selling and I think that is fair enough.

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Re: Gaffs In Ideal Trick Deck

Postby mr_goat » September 13th, 2015, 5:12 pm

cardlover wrote:
mr_goat wrote:You won't find that sort of audience here.

Try the magic cafe or e forum or something.


Gentlemen, I sell nothing here, whether it's possible to sell some useless thing? I just ask for advice


Point is, and sorry this isn't clear, the people here are not your intended audience. It'd be like asking vegetarians what makes a good bacon sarnie.

And yes, you aren't selling it now, but this isn't academic. You plan to sell a deck, yes?
Yes, it is mrgoat, I just can't log in with old account.

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Re: Gaffs In Ideal Trick Deck

Postby cardlover » September 13th, 2015, 6:39 pm

performer wrote:The strongest card trick I know (for me anyway) uses three gimmcked cards. I have no hesitation in using them.

Where we can find a bit more information about the trick or those three gimmicked cards if it is not your own invention?

mr_goat wrote:Point is, and sorry this isn't clear, the people here are not your intended audience. It'd be like asking vegetarians what makes a good bacon sarnie.
And yes, you aren't selling it now, but this isn't academic. You plan to sell a deck, yes?


To sell something we need to get (create) something valuable first. By the way, mr_goat, I assume that you a vegetarian. Are you going to spread this philosophy here?

Are there any topic for non-vegetarian audience in the forums.geniimagazine.com?
Last edited by cardlover on September 13th, 2015, 7:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Gaffs In Ideal Trick Deck

Postby cardlover » September 13th, 2015, 7:05 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Using gimmicked cards is a choice.
You could easily go your entire life and never use one.

I see. And if the person decided to use gimmicked cards, she want to get tips: which one are suitable for a large number of simple and strong tricks, which one are most popular?

Are there experts or amateurs who can answer?
Thank you in advance
Last edited by cardlover on September 13th, 2015, 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gaffs In Ideal Trick Deck

Postby degrisy » September 13th, 2015, 8:18 pm

Rather than gaffed cards I would include cards with an antique look, useful in many effects and not that easy to come by.
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Re: Gaffs In Ideal Trick Deck

Postby Jonathan Townsend » September 13th, 2015, 8:30 pm

I'm no expert and this is just a guess:
The gaffs for the Hofzinser tricks seem pretty well time tested. Add a few DB cards to ease the packet switches into block turnovers and you've got a good foundation with plenty of room for exploration and personal variations.
If your back design is customized... need lots of easy access to regular decks, forcing packs... the usual. :)
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Re: What Are The Most Used Gimmicked Cards? [NEED HELP]

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 13th, 2015, 8:35 pm

I can only imagine that you have not been in magic very long since this information is well known.

There are only a few types of gimmicked cards that can be used for many tricks (rather than specially printed cards that can be used for only one or two tricks).

1. Double-faced cards.
2. Double-backed cards.
3. Red/blue-double backed cards.
4. Blank-faced cards.
5. Blank-backed cards.
6. Blank both sides.
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Re: What Are The Most Used Gimmicked Cards? [NEED HELP]

Postby performer » September 13th, 2015, 8:41 pm

This is a business question and should be treated as such.

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Re: What Are The Most Used Gimmicked Cards? [NEED HELP]

Postby cardlover » September 13th, 2015, 8:44 pm

degrisy wrote:Rather than gaffed cards I would include cards with an antique look, useful in many effects and not that easy to come by.

thank you, degrisy! It's interesting idea!

Jonathan Townsend wrote:I'm no expert and this is just a guess:
The gaffs for the Hofzinser tricks seem pretty well time tested. Add a few DB cards to ease the packet switches into block turnovers and you've got a good foundation with plenty of room for exploration and personal variations.
If your back design is customized... need lots of easy access to regular decks, forcing packs... the usual. :)

thank you for reference and ideas, Jonathan!

Richard Kaufman wrote:I can only imagine that you have not been in magic very long since this information is well known.

There are only a few types of gimmicked cards that can be used for many tricks (rather than specially printed cards that can be used for only one or two tricks).

1. Double-faced cards.
2. Double-backed cards.
3. Red/blue-double backed cards.
4. Blank-faced cards.
5. Blank-backed cards.
6. Blank both sides.

Thank you, Richard, you are right, that's why I am here – to hear the experts and amateurs

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Re: What Are The Most Used Gimmicked Cards? [NEED HELP]

Postby Brad Jeffers » September 13th, 2015, 11:11 pm

cardlover,

If I were to put together a deck of 52 gaffs, rather that just having a random assortment, I would try to include all the necessary cards required to perform the most popular of gaffed card effects.

So you would have the three double-faced cards used for "MacDonald's Aces", the four duplicate double-facers required for "Wild Card", the two specially printed cards needed for "Find the Ace" (Skinner's Ultimate 3 Card Monte) and the gimmicked queens employed in the packet tricks "B'Wave" and "Twisted Sisters".

To this you might want to add one each of the more esoteric "Quartet" and "Overlap" cards, although you might want to consult with Guy Hollingworth and Joshua Jay before the inclusion of those.

Round off your deck with an equal amount of blank-faced, blank-backed, blank both sides, double-backers same color, and double-backers of differing colors (assuming that your deck comes in more than one color).

Throw in a few SBS's and there you have it.

I will point out that there is a difference in gaffed cards and what I refer to as novelty cards.

Novelty cards are specially printed cards that are obviously such, like the unzipped four of spades I posted earlier.

I suppose the Granddaddy of all novelty cards would be the Tree of hearts.

Most of the special cards that are produced to augment designer decks, tend to be novelty cards rather that the more useful standard gaffs.
The Arcane Gaff Deck being a good example.

Good luck with your designer deck.

Apparently, there is a market for this sort of thing.

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Re: What Are The Most Used Gimmicked Cards? [NEED HELP]

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 14th, 2015, 12:18 am

Why would he not need to consult with John Bannon and Max Maven if he does need to consult with Guy Hollingworth and Josh Jay?

The problem with printing up cards that can only be used for specific tricks is two-fold: 1) You might not have any business doing that; 2) The cards are only good for a certain trick and you don't have the right to explain it.
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Re: What Are The Most Used Gimmicked Cards? [NEED HELP]

Postby Brad Jeffers » September 14th, 2015, 2:10 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:Why would he not need to consult with John Bannon and Max Maven if he does need to consult with Guy Hollingworth and Josh Jay?

Good point. Since none of these gentlemen created any of these particular gaffed cards there would be no need to consult with any of them.

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Re: What Are The Most Used Gimmicked Cards? [NEED HELP]

Postby Bill Marquardt » September 14th, 2015, 3:46 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:I can only imagine that you have not been in magic very long since this information is well known.

There are only a few types of gimmicked cards that can be used for many tricks (rather than specially printed cards that can be used for only one or two tricks).

1. Double-faced cards.
2. Double-backed cards.
3. Red/blue-double backed cards.
4. Blank-faced cards.
5. Blank-backed cards.
6. Blank both sides.


Card-Shark sells a gaffed deck with Phoenix backs (except the 26 double-faced cards of course). It includes all of the above except #6. Instead, there is a group of cards with the Phoenix back on one side and the Bicycle back on the other, and a set of aces suitable for McDonald's Aces.

I am not sure the OP wants to do something similar, but perhaps he does. Nothing wrong with that.

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Re: What Are The Most Used Gimmicked Cards? [NEED HELP]

Postby Bill Mullins » September 14th, 2015, 10:06 am

The Overlap and Quartet gaffs, and the gaffs for Twisted Sisters and BWave all predate the inventors of the named tricks by a looong time (Deland and Hofzinser). But to do those specific tricks, you should definitely get the work as published by Jay, Hollingworth, Bannon, and Maven. (and the Monte trick using double-enders goes back to DeLand and "Pickitout", but there is much modern work on that effect too.)

Gaffs are props. Tricks aren't, and your deck and its marketing should be sensitive to the difference.

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Re: What Are The Most Used Gimmicked Cards? [NEED HELP]

Postby Max Maven » September 15th, 2015, 7:17 am

I’m surprised that no one has mentioned Syl Reilly’s Fa-Ko Deck, marketed in 1928. While there have subsequently been other gaff assortments on the market, all of them built on this one. It was later revised and sold by Ronald Haines, in 1962. That incarnation begat a companion booklet, published in 1963.

Marlo’s “Twick as Wovely as a Twee” is hardly the “granddaddy” of gag cards, as it only dates back to 1954. (That "Tree of Hearts" card was also included in the Haines Fa-Ko set.)

There are other gags that precede that. Examples crop up in the early 20th century, notably in the form of cards bearing unexpected words, such as “Stung!” by Lynn Searles, published in The Sphinx in 1932.

The 1940s were the real flourishing period for such stuff, such as the 3½ of clubs, introduced by Harold Sterling in the early 1940s as the pay-off for his marketed trick “MiKo.” Its converse, a card with a value of fourteen, seems to have first been proposed by Harry Mendoza in the Linking Ring in 1946. And then there’s “MacKenzie’s Magic Memory,” marketed by MacKenzie Gordon Gant in 1945, which introduced the 52-on-1 gag card.

Bill Mullins is correct in stating that the gimmicks used for several marketed items are older than those specific tricks. Including such gaffs in a Fa-Ko type of set would thus make sense as being useful for the informed purchaser. However, it’s worth pointing out that the application of a given gaff to a specific trick is still the intellectual property of the trick’s inventor. Thus, for instance, if the gimmick used in “B’wave” were included in a gaff assortment, I would have no complaint, given that the gimmick dates back over four hundred years. However, without my express permission, I would protest any inclusion of instructions for that trick. In fact, lacking permission, I would consider it unethical to even cite that gimmick as being used in that specific trick, as that knowledge is not universal, and the trick is still being sold.

I think Bill's closing sentence is very much worth re-reading.

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Re: What Are The Most Used Gimmicked Cards? [NEED HELP]

Postby cardlover » September 16th, 2015, 3:02 pm

Brad Jeffers wrote:cardlover,
...
Good luck with your designer deck.
Apparently, there is a market for this sort of thing.

Brad, thank you for wishing and thanks a lot for such detailed advice!

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Re: What Are The Most Used Gimmicked Cards? [NEED HELP]

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 16th, 2015, 3:43 pm

Early gag card: the 52-on-1 card invented by Theodore DeLand in 1914.
I assume that most of the cards in the FaKo Deck were ripped off from DeLand.
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Re: What Are The Most Used Gimmicked Cards? [NEED HELP]

Postby cardlover » September 16th, 2015, 4:14 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Why would he not need to consult with John Bannon and Max Maven if he does need to consult with Guy Hollingworth and Josh Jay?

The problem with printing up cards that can only be used for specific tricks is two-fold: 1) You might not have any business doing that; 2) The cards are only good for a certain trick and you don't have the right to explain it.

Thank you, for reference, Richard

Bill Marquardt wrote:... I am not sure the OP wants to do something similar, but perhaps he does. Nothing wrong with that.


Thank you, Bill. The initial idea was in creating a deck of cards which would be interesting to magicians or amateurs of card tricks, but would be suitable for games, such as poker etc. It imposes certain restrictions and causes difficulties. For example, we hesitate, whether the hardly visible elements which create asymmetry in two-way-looked card's back are important enough for tricks.

Further option - to have some of the most important gimmicked cards (suitable for classic/strong tricks) out of the box. Perhaps, we will come up with an extra deck of 56 gimmicked cards.

Bill Mullins wrote:The Overlap and Quartet gaffs, and the gaffs for Twisted Sisters and BWave all predate the inventors of the named tricks by a looong time (Deland and Hofzinser). But to do those specific tricks, you should definitely get the work as published by Jay, Hollingworth, Bannon, and Maven. (and the Monte trick using double-enders goes back to DeLand and "Pickitout", but there is much modern work on that effect too.)

Gaffs are props. Tricks aren't, and your deck and its marketing should be sensitive to the difference.


Thank you, Bill. We are doing our best to find the right way and to feel the difference you are talking about.

Max Maven wrote:I’m surprised that no one has mentioned
...
I think Bill's closing sentence is very much worth re-reading.


Thank you, Max, for such detailed insight and advice!

Such interesting references to honorable people. Could anyone introduce me to them? (please, send me a Private Message)


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