Favorite Coin Routines

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
Dan LeFay
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Dan LeFay » October 18th, 2015, 6:59 am

Bill Duncan wrote:My personal favorite plot is Roth's Portable Hole. I have two versions, one for formal stand up and one for strolling. It's one of the most brilliant presentational concepts in magic and one of the most under-explored.

As for coin magic I like to watch, there have been two releases this year that gave me hope that good coin magic can still be found: Misbehavin' by Kainoa Harbottle, and the stand up coins through the table on Magic for the Shortsighted by Pipo Villanueva. Both are examples of perfected construction that look magical even when you know them inside out.

http://www.kainoaland.com
http://pipovillanueva.com/products/

If you are looking for a good introduction to coin magic, I'd recommend you start with David Stone's two DVDs. The magic is good, not what everyone else is doing, and offers material that is commercial and practical. Nate Kranzo's Stand Up Coin magic DVD is another good source for new guys. Not too demanding, but solid and practical material for both casual performers and working pros.


I second all of the material Bill mentioned here. I did not know Pipo Villanueva, but I ordered his downloadable video. What a great , workable routines there. Haven't ejoyed a "new" name in such a long time. Thank you Bill and Pipo!

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F.Amílcar
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby F.Amílcar » October 18th, 2015, 8:02 am

Dear friends,

My vote is for METALIC FLIGHT in JOAQUIN NAVAJAS'S BOOK written in spanish language.

Truly yours,


F. Amílcar Riega i Bello.

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F.Amílcar
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby F.Amílcar » October 18th, 2015, 8:11 am

Sorry friends,

I have forgotten the trick COINS TROUGHT THE TABLE in the same book, MONEDAS PERSONALES, and perfomed for the author.

Sincerely,


F. Amílcar Riega i Bello.

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Bill Marquardt
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Bill Marquardt » October 20th, 2015, 3:13 pm

I am fond of "A Chinese Classic," a relatively easy to do coins-through-table, described in The Dai Vernon Book of Magic. What he calls there the Basic Move is, I believe, known more popularly as the Heng Ping Chen (or variant spellings) move, a move also described in Al Schneider Magic.

I actually prefer stand-up coin magic, but if seated at a table, this is a great effect. You can see Mr. Vernon perform this feat on the DVD handout from the Genii Convention. I was surprised to see him put his hands down on the table as forcefully as he does, but it works.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 20th, 2015, 5:30 pm

Bill Marquardt wrote:I am fond of "A Chinese Classic," a relatively easy to do coins-through-table, described in The Dai Vernon Book of Magic. What he calls there the Basic Move is, I believe, known more popularly as the Heng Ping Chen (or variant spellings) move, a move also described in Al Schneider Magic.

I actually prefer stand-up coin magic, but if seated at a table, this is a great effect. You can see Mr. Vernon perform this feat on the DVD handout from the Genii Convention. I was surprised to see him put his hands down on the table as forcefully as he does, but it works.


I like this one too. I do it often. I still remember when I was a kid at school studying this instead of doing my lessons. I can't say I found it "relatively easy" though. I found it hell on earth to learn but I got there in the end!

Incidentally I discovered something by accident that may be useful to anyone who does this. I was going along for quite a few years doing this and in fact getting quite good reactions from it. Then one day I suddenly on a whim tried something and got DOUBLE the reaction! And then I did it that way ever since. A tiny simple thing.

Would you like to know what it was? The only reason I am not telling you now is that I want to know if anyone is actually interested. No point me giving the game away if nobody cares.

Stever Cobb
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Stever Cobb » October 22nd, 2015, 9:31 pm

Does anyone know what issue of genii that had the exact change trick Pete posted earlier in the thread?

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 23rd, 2015, 12:54 am

performer wrote:...
I like this one too. ...


Great! I've done it pretty much as written since way back when... so yes please I'd like to know what improves the effect for audiences.
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby J-Mac » October 23rd, 2015, 1:57 am

performer, I'm interested in that "tiny simple thing". Please do tell.

Thanks!

Jim

Jack Shalom
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Jack Shalom » October 23rd, 2015, 6:57 am

I don't think I've ever seen anything more magical than David Roth forcing a coin through a funnel, and it coming out diminished on the other end. That was like movie special f/x, close up.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby I.M. Magician » October 23rd, 2015, 7:22 am

Although it's not exactly the same effect, it very much reminds me of Tenyo's Funnel Vision.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 23rd, 2015, 7:43 am

I see that I have had two requests to reveal the tiny thing that improves the coins through table. Oddly enough it works for the MacDonald Aces too. However, I decided in advance that I would need three responses before I say what I have to say. So only one more and I will reveal all. Some of you might be disappointed because not all magicians understand the importance of psychology when doing magic. But that will be your problem rather than mine.

A tiny little thing can do wonders to something that gets lukewarm reactions. You can go from muted responses to strong reactions by a simple gesture, action or alteration in patter. I still remember getting lukewarm reaction from dice stacking until I altered my patter slightly. Then the gasps came. A matter of a few words did it.

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Brad Jeffers
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Brad Jeffers » October 23rd, 2015, 10:20 am

performer wrote:A tiny little thing can do wonders...


Ok Mark, I'll be the third response which you require.

Now you can go ahead and expose your tiny little thing.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 23rd, 2015, 4:16 pm

That sounds dreadfully vulgar and I am not sure I approve. I am not sure whether to count that response.

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Sean-Dylan
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Sean-Dylan » October 23rd, 2015, 4:22 pm

I am interested as well in the tiny little thing that will increase the spectator reaction.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 23rd, 2015, 4:40 pm

Jolly good. That means I will reveal it later tonight when I have the energy. Alas I have to leave very shortly.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 23rd, 2015, 8:15 pm

OK. This is what I do. It may not suit everyone but all I can tell you is that the reaction I get from this trick increased significantly because of this one thing. Try it and hopefully you will see what I mean.

I am a great believer in bringing people into a trick even if at first sight there doesn't seem to be a way. This might apply to the trick in question but not if you do this. Do the trick as normal until it is time to push the coins through the table. The normal procedure is to tap various parts of the table and then say "right here" or something similar. Try this. Just as you are about to push the coins through simply say, "Press your hand on the back of my hand" inviting them to push gently down on your hand. Say, "Push" Clank the coins against the underside of the table and bring them up into full view and explain, "You pushed too hard!"

The reaction will double if you time it right.

While on this subject I have always thought that most magicians do the MacDonald's Aces wrong. Again they need to bring the spectator into it. Tell them to put their hand on the ace pile. Then vanish the aces as normal. Now tell them to turn the cards over in their hands. The result is sensational! Far more sensational than those pretty routines where the aces vanish then end up in a pile which has been out there in the open all the time. Dearie me no! That is the wrong way to do the trick. GET THEM TO PUT THEIR HAND ON THE ACE PILE throughout and the reaction will DOUBLE!

I am psychic and know these things.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 23rd, 2015, 10:44 pm

Frank Garcia always had the spectator put his hand over the Leader packet. It definitely added to the effect.
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 23rd, 2015, 11:22 pm

A lot of people don't. They should. I find it makes a tremendous difference.

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erdnasephile
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby erdnasephile » October 24th, 2015, 1:04 am

Gary Kurtz published an excellent McDonald's Ace Routine where the spectator puts the leader packet in his pocket at the start of the routine.

Of course, one must have strong spectator management and selection skills to avoid getting busted because the ending is pretty predictable. (Daryl published a strategy for dealing with this issue in Secrets of a Puerto Rican Gambler)

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 24th, 2015, 10:08 am

I know Gary and he is very skillful indeed but I don't like the pocket idea. You really have to have the leader packet right out there in the open. Get someone to put their hand on the packet as I advised. I get more reaction,gasps and talk about this trick than anything else I do so I know what I am talking about.

And the anticipation of the climax HELPS the effect not hinders it. A lot of magicians worry about the wrong things it seems.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 24th, 2015, 10:39 am

Thanks for the tip about getting a volunteer in there for when the magic happens. Agreed their reaction can significantly change how others react.

About the card trick - McDonald was the onehanded guy. He did a version of the card assembly trick. Hofzinser was the gaffed assembly guy.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 24th, 2015, 10:53 am

I know that it was Hofzinser's trick (Power of Faith) rather than MacDonald's but the man with the one arm was s pitchman. We steal everything.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Leonard Hevia » October 24th, 2015, 11:14 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:Frank Garcia always had the spectator put his hand over the Leader packet. It definitely added to the effect.


Yes! That was the way Garcia did it on the Dick Cavett show when Cavett was PBS. The reactions were sensational. I still remember that moment after all these years.


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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 24th, 2015, 12:15 pm

Jon, we all know that McDonald was the guy with one arm.
And we all know that he used double-faced cards and that the trick preceded him by many years, first from Hofzinser. Even the one-hand throw that McDonald used is Hofzinser's.
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby El Mystico » October 24th, 2015, 12:59 pm

Seriously? performer plays all coy as if he has a big secret, and then comes out with something that is in the original Stars of Magic release...its a good point that deserves to be emphasized; but it is like an old tart holding out for a sloppy fanny.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 24th, 2015, 2:13 pm

It IS a big secret and there is no mention of it in the Stars of Magic. And even if there is how come hardly anybody is doing it? And it IS worth mentioning.

I am here to help. However I will be happy to delete the post if nobody is interested and you can all go back to discussing the riveting subject of close up pads.
Last edited by performer on October 25th, 2015, 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 24th, 2015, 2:20 pm

Besides I was advising on how to improve the coins through table. The ace trick was a side issue. I have given what I consider to be valuable advice. If some of you wish to be ungrateful bastards then mind your own business and let me help others who wish to avail of my experience.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 24th, 2015, 3:35 pm

The key is how to sell the trick to the audience. And if getting a volunteer into the moment for the coin trick works - great. :)
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 24th, 2015, 7:04 pm

Too many people do the trick without asking the spectator to cover the Ace packet with their hand, so Mark is absolutely right.
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby magicrobharv » October 24th, 2015, 8:45 pm

Just like Stever Cobb, I would like to know where to find Pete McCabe's. "Exact Change"
Thanks.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 24th, 2015, 9:14 pm

I wish I hadn't mentioned MacDonalds Aces now. I was talking about the coins through table anyway and went off on a MacDonald tangent. That coin idea of MINE is nowhere mentioned in the Stars of Magic and come to think of it neither is the coins through the bloody table either. I am talking about the old Stars of Magic. I haven't read the new one. I never read books published after 1954.

My main point was that the slightest thing can suddenly make a lukewarm effect into a great one. So if you are doing something where you are not getting the reaction you want and as a result are tempted to abandon it stick with it a little longer. All it may need is a tiny gesture or a few words of alteration in the patter. Or a small streamlining of a sleight. It often doesn't take much at all. I remember doing dice stacking and getting no reaction at all until one day I said, "but the difficult bit is to stack them all on top of each other just like that". Then they started gasping whereas before they didn't seem to give a stuff about it. Just a line of patter made it happen-nothing more.

While I am at it I think I will tell you another little secret about the MacDonalds Routine. At least I think so. You kill the effect by drawing it out despite the fact that various notables have done it this way. Too much chattering and pretty music is all terribly nice and perhaps artistic. But you are getting applause for the art and presentation rather than the trick itself. Especially when there is no spectator to put their hand on the Ace pile. They will dismiss the effect from their minds no matter how much applause they give it. However, if you do it at a decent speed without taking all day with long winded patter and get the spectator to put his or hand on the packet then the reaction will increase mightily and they will talk about it for days wondering how the hell you did it. And the next time they see you they will nag you to do it again and pester you for the secret. THAT is the kind of reaction you want.

Oh, one more thing. When I was much younger I got the spectator to SIT on the ace packet. It got terrific reaction but I ultimately abandoned it because of the vulgar remarks it would elicit. I liked this method but decided it wasn't good taste. After all I am a terribly wholesome person.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby mr_goat » October 25th, 2015, 4:08 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:Too many people do the trick without asking the spectator to cover the Ace packet with their hand, so Mark is absolutely right.


Totally disagree. Makes it too impossible. Yes, tried both ways. And there are no absolutes. You think it works. That's valid. I disagree because it makes it too impossible. Also valid. No "absolutely right" about it.
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 25th, 2015, 6:34 am

El Mystico wrote:Seriously? performer plays all coy as if he has a big secret, and then comes out with something that is in the original Stars of Magic release...its a good point that deserves to be emphasized; but it is like an old tart holding out for a sloppy fanny.


Let me go back to this idiotic observation. By the "original" Stars of Magic I am presuming that El Mystico is referring to the one that first came out with sections from Scarne, Vernon, Slydini, Allerton etc; There is no mention of MacDonalds Routine and neither is there mention of hands going on Ace packets. There are a couple of ace assembly things from Vernon with regular cards but no mention of hands on the ace pile.

But even if there were I STILL say it is an important thing to mention. There is no doubt in my mind that the effect increases TREMENDOUSLY if the spectator guards it with his hand. This is the thinking process that goes through the mind of the audience. The anticipation of the climax HELPS the astonishment rather than detracts from it as previously referred to. What happens is that they see the aces vanishing, anticipate that they are going to appear under the hand, but just can't figure out how the hell it is going to happen since they SEE the aces in front of them and then disappear! The effect is sensational but you do have to know what you are doing and understand the psychology of magic. They often say to me and each other in exasperation, "But I had my hand on them!"

The thought of duplicates might occur to them but they still can't figure out how they could disappear and come under their hand so it is NOT too impossible as inexperienced performers might think and the "too perfect" theory (which I agree with) does not apply. And they can't find any duplicate card anyway. Besides I use a Vernon move that seems to give the illusion that indifferent cards are placed under the hand anyway.

Oddly enough there is no mention of the hands being on the leader packet in the Ganson book where the trick was first described as MacDonald's Aces. I am tempted to say the idea was mine and that I was doing it before Frank Garcia was but alas I have a faint vibe that this hand thing was first described by Hofzinser in the book by Ottokar Fischer. I have the book somewhere but can't find it at the moment. I have a vague memory of Hofzinser telling them to put their hand on the card but am not one hundred percent sure. I must check it out.

Incidentally I was very impressed and surprised by Hofzinser's patter when doing the trick. He was very concise for the time and not as long winded as the fashion was in those days. His presentation had no wasted words and seemed to be very fast paced for the 19th century.

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 25th, 2015, 7:26 am

Here is a video of Frank Garcia doing it. Here he is not using the spectator's hand but only a cigarette packet. I have to say I was not enthralled by it. I found it very slow and dreary. I personally do it in half the running time. I am afraid slow magicians put me to sleep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44XwQ3p1wHI

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby mr_goat » October 25th, 2015, 7:31 am

It's the coin thing that's in stars of magic. Nice one for trying though.
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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 25th, 2015, 8:00 am

I have the Stars of Magic right here in my hand. What page?

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 25th, 2015, 8:04 am

mr_goat wrote:It's the coin thing that's in stars of magic. Nice one for trying though.


Still looking for the page are you?

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 25th, 2015, 8:05 am

Can't find it, can you?

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Re: Favorite Coin Routines

Postby performer » October 25th, 2015, 8:09 am

El Mystico said the ORIGINAL Stars of Magic. It is NOT in there. I have read the bloody book from cover to cover and I have owned it for decades. There is no mention of coins through table let alone telling the spectator to help you push the coins through by pushing on your hand.

And I bet ten to one it isn't mentioned in the New Stars of Magic either.


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