Originator of card move

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Originator of card move

Postby Guest » November 7th, 2005, 2:35 am

Hi guys,

I was hoping one of you could help me with crediting a move I perform all the time but don't know the originator of.
The move involves switching one card for another as follows: The top card of the face down deck is turned face up and a break obtained below the second (first face down) card of the deck. Both of these cards are then spread off the deck as a double. The deck is turned over onto these cards and the thumb pushes off the face (now bottom) card. This effectively switches the top 2 cards of the deck in a discrepent but illusive way. I've seen it mistakenly called the KM move on occasion, but know that name refers to another very different sleight.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

Andy

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Re: Originator of card move

Postby Philippe Billot » November 7th, 2005, 3:23 am

Yes, It's one of the multiple uses of the KM (Kardyro Marlo Move - 1962)

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Re: Originator of card move

Postby Guest » November 7th, 2005, 4:26 am

It's Harry Lorayne's Illogical Double Lift.

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Re: Originator of card move

Postby Philippe Billot » November 7th, 2005, 4:43 am

Hi, Uli

If you are speaking about the Illogical Double Lift described in Quantum Leaps 1979, page 30,
It's a KM MOVE !!!

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Originator of card move

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 7th, 2005, 7:50 am

It is not a KM Move.
Marlo did publish the move years before Harry Lorayne, but in no way can it be called a KM Move (and I don't care what Marlo may have called it--can't recall now--but it does not use the KM Mechanics).
Has anyone realized that the so-called KM Move is just the old Slip Force done with only two cards? So much for invention--it's just another case of Marlo applying old mechanics differently and trying to claim them as a new invention.
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Re: Originator of card move

Postby Gene Taylor » November 7th, 2005, 10:32 am

"Single Card Exchange" Marlo's Magazine Volume One, 1976

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Re: Originator of card move

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 7th, 2005, 11:25 am

I got the "Ted Anneman" feeling about the thing when first seeing it in a routine.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: Originator of card move

Postby John Carey » November 8th, 2005, 12:42 am

Does KM stand for kaufmann marlo? :D ;)

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Re: Originator of card move

Postby Rafael Benatar » November 8th, 2005, 2:06 am

This move appeared in one of Frank Garcia's early books (not that this clarifies the crediting).

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Re: Originator of card move

Postby Guest » November 8th, 2005, 2:08 am

Thanks for the replies guys, I thought that the KM title was incorrect as this is attributed to the move where a card (or cards) are stolen back onto the deck as it is turned. Usually to clean up a double or secretly reverse one or several cards in a slip action as mentioned by Richard.

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Re: Originator of card move

Postby Philippe Billot » November 9th, 2005, 3:37 am

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Has anyone realized that the so-called KM Move is just the old Slip Force done with only two cards? .
Are you speaking of the Backslip Force,described (for instance) in Royal Road to Card Magic ?

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Re: Originator of card move

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 9th, 2005, 7:36 am

Yes.
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Re: Originator of card move

Postby Philippe Billot » November 9th, 2005, 8:08 am

Richard,

Are you saying that because Gilles-Edme Guyot (for instance) has described in 1769 the Backslip, you refute all the work, search, new applications given by Marlo just because he has given at this move a new name (K.M.) ?

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Re: Originator of card move

Postby Jon Racherbaumer » November 9th, 2005, 9:07 am

NAMING AND NECESSITY:
A Brief Note about Initialing Mechanics

Here we go again.

Just when I thought this topic (controversy?) had been laid to rest (a black wreath happily placed onto its bier), Im dragged back into the matrix of misunderstandings and fuzzy definitions.

The question still vexingly unanswered is: Why bother?

So

The loose talk regarding the K.M. Move begs to be clarified yet again, causing some of us to examine the business of provenance, the practice of naming and claiming sleights, and of giving the SAME name to all variants of these sleights, even when each accomplishes different ends and are applied differently.

The NAMING business is inevitably problematic, especially for those desiring credit. Their rationale is: I thought of it. Its my discovery or invention. I named it. IT IS MINE. End of story.

As far as casual, level-headed practitioners are concerned, they stay out of such frays. They are primarily interested in what the mechanics of a sleight DOES. They ask: Will I use it? Can I do it? Is it practical? Is it deceptive?

Once these questions are satisfactorily answered, they add the sleight to their arsenal and are largely indifferent to its name. If they care about provenance and its history is uncomplicated and clear-cut, they will most of the time refer to the sleight by its CONSENSUAL name. Otherwise, its up for grabs or as a character in Things to Do in Denver When Youre Dead says:

Give it a name!

This being said, what about the K. M. Move?

I tried to answer this question in a 100-page book pretentiously titled, COMPLEAT KM MOVE (1992).

Since most readers will not be motivated to slog through a hundred pages, let me offer four observations:

(1) Marlo did not take a commonplace set of mechanics and claim them as his invention. The initials (K.M.) stand for Kardyro and Marlo. Marlo, if he claimed anything, was the important finesses that gave the mechanics FLEXIBILITY.
(2) The mechanics, by the way, can be used to secretly REVERSE a card or cards or to SWITCH a card or cards. This can be done in a myriad of ways.
(3) In the big treatise, I pointed out Jean Irvings Peek (Phoenix #70), which was SOMEWHAT similar to the mechanics of the K.M. Move insofar as being a way to steal-reverse cards.
(4) The move initially brought up on the Genii Forum is the CONTEMPORARY KAM CHANGE, which has four variations. This is the move that Harry Lorayne published and apparently reinvented. (I will post that background separately on this Forum, if anyone is interested.)

As just mentioned, I doubt that many readers are really interested in such detailed background. If you are, I suggest reading the COMPLEAT KM MOVE. (This mss. will be on my Website very soon, free to Premium Members.)

In the meantime, others will use the mechanics of this sleight and its variants to their advantage and will call it any name they like.

This is how the game is played.

Onward

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Re: Originator of card move

Postby Philippe Billot » November 9th, 2005, 10:16 am

Mr. Racherbaumer

Is it possible to buy your book Compleat KM Move without been a member of your site ?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Originator of card move

Postby Jon Racherbaumer » November 9th, 2005, 4:00 pm

Yes, a hard-bound (spiral) will be available in December or as a downloadable e-book. One does NOt have to be a member for these...

Thanks for the inquiry.

Onward...

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Re: Originator of card move

Postby PressureFan » March 17th, 2021, 5:02 pm

I wish someone would shoot photos for Jon Racherbaumer’s Compleat K.M. Move. I’ve tried a few times over the years just for my own use but never get very far.
There are only 27 or 28 photos. It would be a great companion to the ebook.


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