Three Handlings--Twisting the aces

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swamy
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Three Handlings--Twisting the aces

Postby swamy » September 3rd, 2014, 10:08 pm

Hello Everybody

Mainly, there are three handlings for Twisting the aces :
1. Elmsley Count
2. Ascanio Spread
3. Vic Trabucco(Hamman count style, cards transferred from one hand to another)
(In the book "Packet Tricks" by Jerry Mentzer, the effect "Twist" mentions that Vic Trabucco came up with this handling after seeing Ascanio Spread)

Magic books do not mention the name "Vic Trabucco" while performing his handling on twisting the Aces or while performing any other trick which uses this count.

Can anyone elaborate on the above...

regards
Swamy

Philippe Billot
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Re: Three Handlings--Twisting the aces

Postby Philippe Billot » September 4th, 2014, 3:33 am

Packet Tricks by Jerry Mentzer was published in 1982 but the concept of an extra card for a reverse of any card in a packet was used by Marlo in The Linking Ring, Vol. 43, no. 9, September 1963 in his trick Touch Turn.

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Three Handlings--Twisting the aces

Postby Dustin Stinett » September 4th, 2014, 5:36 am

Jon Racherbaumer authored (and Lloyd Jones published) a 20-page booklet titled Good Turns in 1977. It is on various "twisting" effects—a half dozen or so. I'm not sure about its availability today or whether or not it is something you would find interesting.

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Re: Three Handlings--Twisting the aces

Postby Philippe Billot » September 4th, 2014, 5:52 am

Good Turns 2.0 is available at Lybrary.com

swamy
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Re: Three Handlings--Twisting the aces

Postby swamy » September 4th, 2014, 5:59 am

1. Agreed that the concept of extra card was in the effect "Touch and Turn" by Marlo, but the entire handling could be of some other gentleman.

2.This handling is described in the "Hamman Twist" without any name.

So why does in the effect "Twist" by Vic Trabucco printed in the book "Packet Trick" by Jerry Mentzer mentions that Vic Trabucco developed this handling after seeing Ascanio Spread ????

Quite confusing ....

If someone can clarify it will be nice...


regards
Swamy

Philippe Billot
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Re: Three Handlings--Twisting the aces

Postby Philippe Billot » September 4th, 2014, 7:19 am

As Marlo did not write he has created the concept, I have written that he USED it and I don't know any reference before.

About The Hamman Twist, here is the excerpt from Good Turns :

This effect is Hamman's treatment of “Twisting The Aces” and its exact date of origin is
unknown, although it appears to have been developed around 1965-66. There is some
mild controversy about this. Piet Forton published "Queenie" in The New Pentagram
(April-1969). Forton was performing this routine during his first visit to the U. S. His
routine, however, differs from Hamman's in important ways. In Forton's version the extra
card is disclosed at the end. In Hamman's routine the extra card remains hidden. Both
routines use different handlings. For example, Forton begins with two cards reversed.
Hamman begins with all the cards facing the same way. Hamman's version closely
follows Vernon's procedure, particularly first two reversals. Forton's routine has
interesting aspect. After each reversal, the cards are shown to be all face down.


I think that Jerry Mentzer did not check if the concept was used before. He simply report Vic Trabucco's explanation.

It is best to ask to Jim Steinmeyer or Max Maven for more explanations.

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Re: Three Handlings--Twisting the aces

Postby Jonathan Townsend » September 4th, 2014, 8:00 am

Check the Vernon routine to start - it's not a simple "Elmsley Count" approach.
other approaches include the Asher Twist and Waving the Aces.
Not sure what to call an advanced handling of Sam Schwartz's "Back Flip" where you use a sleight to get the extras into position while apparently turning the four card packet face down.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: Three Handlings--Twisting the aces

Postby Philippe Billot » September 4th, 2014, 8:08 am

Back Flip was first described in Epilogue, Vol. 1, no. 19, november 1973.

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Re: Three Handlings--Twisting the aces

Postby Jonathan Townsend » September 4th, 2014, 8:33 am

The basic idea of using an extra card to show that a named card in a packet has magically reversed dates back ... likely all the way to Hofzinser as it's a student level exercise to use the cull. Minor improvements, like using a DB card to clean up the displays or color changes of the packet and how the setup-cleanup is handled, abound.

Check out the Asher Twist approach. And Hollingworth's Waving approach.

Is there a full four-ace turnover using the card-tunnel approach... some booklets by Fulves come to mind as does work by Kaufman and Krenzel and Don England.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

GlennWest
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Re: Three Handlings--Twisting the aces

Postby GlennWest » September 4th, 2014, 1:19 pm

Hi Swamy,

In case you haven't seen this, Stephen Hobbs has some interesting work on twisting the aces in his Technical Toolbox:

http://www.stephenhobbstechnicaltoolbox.com/

Weeks 19 and 20.

swamy
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Re: Three Handlings--Twisting the aces

Postby swamy » September 4th, 2014, 2:13 pm

GlennWest wrote:Hi Swamy,

In case you haven't seen this, Stephen Hobbs has some interesting work on twisting the aces in his Technical Toolbox:

http://www.stephenhobbstechnicaltoolbox.com/

Weeks 19 and 20.


Hello Glenn

Thank you very much for the interesting and informative site.I saw the twisting routines with wonderful performances, detailed and precise information.

I will go through the others also...

regards
swamy

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erdnasephile
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Re: Three Handlings--Twisting the aces

Postby erdnasephile » September 4th, 2014, 9:44 pm

Wayne Houchin has a very nice handling of the Vernon routine. The methodology is the same, but it looks very different due to the open Elmsley's.

One weakness in many published twisting routines is the lack of a logical ending, coupled with crummy presentations (usually involving anthropomorphism).

Consequently, a personal favorite has been Daryl's twisting routine out of his Puerto Rican Gambler book. I think it's still a great trick after all these years.

GlennWest
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Re: Three Handlings--Twisting the aces

Postby GlennWest » September 5th, 2014, 12:34 pm

Good point E - Daryl's routine is great.

Also from that era is another classic twisting routine, Harris' Bizarre Twist.

Victor Trabucco
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Re: Three Handlings--Twisting the aces

Postby Victor Trabucco » December 30th, 2014, 9:49 pm

Hello Gentlemen,

The handling for the version of the “Twist" was first published by Jerry Mentzer in Card Cavalcade II,
year 1974, page 150. It is a easy handling I used the ace, two ,three and four and has color changing back kicker. One extra card is used, as mentioned.

Vic Trabucco

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Brad Jeffers
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Re: Three Handlings--Twisting the aces

Postby Brad Jeffers » December 31st, 2014, 5:13 am

swamy wrote:Mainly, there are three handlings for Twisting the aces :
1. Elmsley Count
2. Ascanio Spread
3. Vic Trabucco(Hamman count style, cards transferred from one hand to another)
(In the book "Packet Tricks" by Jerry Mentzer, the effect "Twist" mentions that Vic Trabucco came up with this handling after seeing Ascanio Spread)


Looking over Trabucco's Twist as it appears in Mentzer's Packet Tricks, I don't see what your talking about.

There is nothing even remotely "Hamman Count style" in the way the cards are transferred from hand to hand.

swamy wrote:Magic books do not mention the name "Vic Trabucco" while performing his handling on twisting the Aces or while performing any other trick which uses this count.

When you say "any other trick which uses this count", to what are you referring? There is no special count involved.

To quote from the book, "Hold the packet of cards in the left hand with the Ace showing. Push the cards off into the right hand one at time calling them by name as you count. The last two cards are transferred to the right hand as a single card."

Simple as that.

This process is repeated for each subsequent reversal.

I would also point out, that on page 45, Mentzer mentions that Jerry Hartman also published an identical handling for this effect.


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