Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
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Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby I.M. Magician » March 11th, 2014, 5:59 pm

I love the Koornwinder Kar. I have the original and the Tenyo model. I refuse to buy any of the copies out of respect to it's creator. He's a real nice guy.

I would like to hear from you if you have one. Perhaps you can offer tips, suggestions, routines, etc.. I would appreciate whatever you are willing to offer in the way of advise in using this wonderful piece of magic apparatus.

I must admit that I have not put enough time into mastering this effect but intend to do so this week and for the next few weeks. It's not that complicated to use but I never perform anything until I feel really comfortable with it.

I am hoping to hear from Koornwinder Kar owners with their thoughts. Thanks!

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Q. Kumber » March 11th, 2014, 6:12 pm

Ken Brooke lectured in Dublin early 1974 and performed the Kar.

He had stickers on it to give it personality, and if I remember correctly the roof had a sticker that looked like the RAF symbol (concentric circles). I think when Ken pressed it, it squeaked but when an audience member pressed, it sounded like a horn.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby erdnasephile » March 12th, 2014, 11:20 am

Ed Solomon published a spooky presentation in The Linking Ring a couple of years back involving a dead child's toy. I'll see if I can find a reference.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby El Mystico » March 12th, 2014, 3:02 pm

Watch Tamariz.
Where - it isn't the car, it is Tamariz.
Without presentation, it is a mechanical thing.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Jonathan Townsend » March 12th, 2014, 3:08 pm

IIRC the item came with a container of 'card control' stuff. Worth using.

As others have and will likely continue to describe - a presentation that does something more than "and now the car will stop on your card" helps.
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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Pete McCabe » March 12th, 2014, 3:11 pm

Bruce Barnett allowed me to include his script "Joey's Hero," a spooky presentation in which the Kar is a dead child's toy, in Scripting Magic. No idea how this relates to what Ed Solomon published.

During one of the recent Tenyo threads I was inspired to buy a Tenyo product with the goal of creating a presentation around it. I almost chose the Koornwinder Kar because I thought, to paraphrase W.C. Fields, that it would be a terrific trick to have on hand in the event you come across a marked deck, which I also have on hand.

Anyway, tortured sentences aside, I think that the Koornwinder Kar is a great trick for a marked deck. I ended up buying a copy of Ultraslice to satisfy my Tenyo urge, but I still might get a Koornwinder Kar. I think it would play terrifically well for my students.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby erdnasephile » March 12th, 2014, 3:27 pm

Hi, Pete--I think we might be talking about the same presentation. Did Bruce's presentation originally appear in Ed Solomon's column in the LR?

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Dick Koornwinder » March 12th, 2014, 3:30 pm

Q. Kumber wrote:Ken Brooke lectured in Dublin early 1974 and performed the Kar.
He had stickers on it to give it personality, and if I remember correctly the roof had a sticker that looked like the RAF symbol (concentric circles).


A sticker with a different number on each side of the Kar was to confuse the judges along the circuit during the race. A typical Ken Brooke gag. Although I'm a big fan of Ken I did not like this one so much. The smallest imperfection in the painting was for me a reason to repaint the Kar and to my horror Ken covered almost the whole Kar with stickers. So I promise if you buy now a Kar from me.........no stickers!!Image
Last edited by Dick Koornwinder on March 12th, 2014, 4:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby I.M. Magician » March 12th, 2014, 3:42 pm

Hi Dick. How about that? Dick Koornwinder joining in on a thread about the Koornwinder Kar. It doesn't get any better than this!

By the way, if anyone wants a genuine Koornwinder Kar, please allow me to suggest that you buy it directly from Dick as I did. The only way to be absolutely certain that you will own the genuine article.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby I.M. Magician » March 12th, 2014, 3:51 pm

Dick, can you tell me if Ken Brooke changed the hubcaps or did you use silver caps before the red caps?
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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Pete McCabe » March 12th, 2014, 4:03 pm

erdnasephile wrote:Did Bruce's presentation originally appear in Ed Solomon's column in the LR?


I don't think so, but maybe it ran there after it came out in the book.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Chris Aguilar » March 12th, 2014, 7:45 pm

What's the story with this crystal version? I assume it's a knockoff, but I really like the innocent look of it. I assume that the modus-operandi might be different from an actual Koornwinder car correct?



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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 12th, 2014, 7:49 pm

Yes, the crystal one is a copy.
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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Dick Koornwinder » March 12th, 2014, 9:31 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Yes, the crystal one is a copy.



Yes there are a lot of 'copies' of the Kar!

Interesting to know is the fact Rhett Bryson from Greenville SC is the author/publisher of the WeeBook with the title: "Some of The Many Rip-offs of The Koornwinder Kar" When I visited the Bryson residence there was a nice display of the original Kar and some of the rip-offs. I have been told my invention is the most "copied" item in the history of modern magic.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 12th, 2014, 10:05 pm

Dick, I am sorry to disagree, but I think the Svengali Deck is the most copied item in magic history.
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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Pete McCabe » March 13th, 2014, 3:35 am

Didn't Tamariz use the crystal one on TV?

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby baabaablacksheep » March 13th, 2014, 4:42 am

Pete McCabe wrote:I ended up buying a copy of Ultraslice to satisfy my Tenyo urge, but I still might get a Koornwinder Kar. I think it would play terrifically well for my students.


You can load your Ultra Slice up with Chalk, Crayons or Sharpened Down Pencils. That would make a good classroom trick.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Chris Aguilar » March 13th, 2014, 10:37 am

Pete McCabe wrote:Didn't Tamariz use the crystal one on TV?

I seem to recall seeing that too. Seems a shame/missed opportunity that a licensed crystal version doesn't seem to be available. Reasonable people would likely disagree, but I really prefer the look of the crystal car to that of the official models.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 13th, 2014, 11:09 am

The crystal knock-off adds clarity to the trick, but sacrifices mystery. I'll take mystery.
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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Chris Aguilar » March 13th, 2014, 11:19 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:The crystal knock-off adds clarity to the trick, but sacrifices mystery. I'll take mystery.

I'd say it adds mystery. The "see through" nature of the crystal version (which has the same freedom of handling as the original versions) makes it seem impossible that there's some sort of mechanics stopping the wheels.

I can't find it now, but the video with Tamariz using a crystal car(or even that version I posted of the Asian fellow) doesn't seem to be lacking in mystery value at all. It's interesting to look at the Tenyo patent for their version. I wonder if Tenyo added anything (beyond the the locking feature/plastic body) that substantially adds to the effectiveness of the effect.
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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 13th, 2014, 11:30 am

Dick will correct me if he returns to the thread, but Tenyo's resdesign, in addition to the locking mechanism, is also more exact as to when the car will stop. There's more "play" in the one Dick makes.

If you own the Tenyo version, there's an interesting note at the end of the instruction about a "memory function" that the new mechanism makes possible.
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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Chris Aguilar » March 13th, 2014, 12:14 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:If you own the Tenyo version, there's an interesting note at the end of the instruction about a "memory function" that the new mechanism makes possible.

Someone wrote this over at the green joint. This is what you're talking about?

It has a "switch" to activate/deactive the mechanism and also a "memory effect":

You can set a certain distance till the car stops, when you deactivate the mechanism you can roll the card forward/backward as much as you like. When you reactivate the mechanism the car will stop at the same distance which you set before.

The "switch" makes an audible click, but maybe it can be masked when put the car down on the table at the same time.


I'm not entirely convinced that a locking/unlocking mechanism has much value, as Tamariz and others performances are quite strong without any need for that.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Steve Mills » March 13th, 2014, 3:48 pm

For those that may be interested, there is another "authorized" version (at least I assume it was, since it was sold by Ken Brooke).

The car was produced from an elaborate Matchbox type car. I believe it was modified by Jim Hooper. It had some neat features, such as the car turning to face the spread when the card was reached. Unfortunately, much of the secret was in the wheels and tires and the tires, at least on mine, crumbled after a number of years. I've never located a "mechanic" to work on it.

I'm not sure how many were produced, but I never see it mentioned.
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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Brad Henderson » March 13th, 2014, 5:50 pm

the first kar I saw was the matchbook version. It was in a collection. I asked if that were a real kornwinder kar (it was the first time I had seen one). he told me it was. he was usually knowledgable about such things, but we all receive misinformation.

I recently acquired in a collection one shaped like a mouse!

I agree with RK. the wooden car is charming and mysterious. The crystal makes it clinical. More puzzling perhaps but hardly more mysterious.

I believe tamariz used a wooden one on wgm and the a1 tapes, yes?

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Dustin Stinett » March 13th, 2014, 6:27 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:I believe tamariz used a wooden one on wgm and the a1 tapes, yes?

That's how I recall it and here's a shot from (I think) the video. It looks like an original car to me:
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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby erdnasephile » March 13th, 2014, 6:28 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:the first kar I saw was the matchbook version. It was in a collection. I asked if that were a real kornwinder kar (it was the first time I had seen one). he told me it was. he was usually knowledgable about such things, but we all receive misinformation.

I recently acquired in a collection one shaped like a mouse!

I agree with RK. the wooden car is charming and mysterious. The crystal makes it clinical. More puzzling perhaps but hardly more mysterious.

I believe tamariz used a wooden one on wgm and the a1 tapes, yes?


Yes, he did.

However, I favor the wooden car because it looks natural. I used to play with wooden cars and have seen plenty of them in the millennial era as well (? due to the popularity of Thomas the Tank Engine-type toys).

In contrast, I've never seen a crystal car commonly in the real world. To me, using natural looking props is a form of canceling.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Dustin Stinett » March 13th, 2014, 6:33 pm

To your point: I recently saw a set of cars at Ikea that reminded me of the original Koornwinder Kar, so it would be perfectly natural to say that you picked it up at Ikea.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby I.M. Magician » March 13th, 2014, 6:40 pm

I can't agree more Dustin and Erdnasephile! The whole idea of the Kar is to present a familiar object that kids have and use it to locate a chosen card.

All of the copies out there are attempts to be creative without considering the concept of the Kar. The Kar doesn't need to look different than what the original one looks like. Tenyo's model is a perfect example! They didn't really change the look. They stayed true to what it is supposed to look like. A small red kid's toy car.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby I.M. Magician » March 13th, 2014, 6:47 pm

Perhaps I should add that some of the copies out there are also toy cars that a child may have but they did it without Dick's permission.

Also, from what I understand, some of the copies do not work well and some are too large.

Rhett Bryson and I have had some discussion about the copies and I learned a lot from him.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 13th, 2014, 7:29 pm

I believe the Ken Brooke version was authorized. Dick?
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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Q. Kumber » March 13th, 2014, 7:38 pm

If memory serves, there was a special limited edition Matchbox type put out by Ken Brooke, and that Jim Hooper had something to do with it.

I'm sure Dick will correct me if I'm wrong, but he never sold the rights to Ken Brooke, but supplied him exclusively.

I have the original Ken Brooke instruction sheets and after sales service sheets which are , as with all Ken's instruction sheets, very detailed.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Chris Aguilar » March 13th, 2014, 9:13 pm

It's too bad that the Tenyo version (perhaps without the unnecessary locking mechanism) isn't available in a higher quality wood or heavier duty plastic. It seems closer (a bit smoother industrial design) to the toys I actually see my little daughter and her friends using these days.

I'll apologize in advance for my bluntness here, but original Koornwinder car seems like something one's grandfather whittled for them. I realize that, to some, the relative crudeness/simplicity of the original design is a plus, but I'll buck the trend and say that in my personal view, that nearly every knockoff is a visual improvement on the original. The Lego based knockoff looks like fun, here's Dani DaOrtiz using it.

I don't agree that the different, slicker look of the knockoffs is a minus. Mechanically, the issues might be more relevant, but I have no basis for comparison there.

Is it unreasonable to suggest that there might be a real, legit market for nicely produced versions of this trick that go beyond the very basic "wood block" and "tenyo plastic" authorized versions?
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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Brad Henderson » March 13th, 2014, 10:13 pm

a hobbyist's perspective versus a professional's.

it is also inconsistent- in one thread he complains that the fault of Tenyo is the slickness and toy like nature of the design, yet suddenly it is exactly that which is to be an improvement in this case?

miracles occur when doing something extraordinary with the ordinary. The car is a character. It is the flaws that we love, not the perfections.

if the only thing you care about is the method then clear might matter - but that's misplaced magician values talking. it also bespeaks a misunderstanding of the full effect - there is more than just the stopping and starting that is part of the story.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Dick Koornwinder » March 13th, 2014, 10:39 pm

It is already late in this part of the world I'm living but for sure I'll be back here with some comments!
One of my favorite snapshots on Instagram: http://goo.gl/MjBXly From left to right: Juan Tamariz, Koornwinder Kar (the original) and Dick Koornwinder.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 13th, 2014, 10:49 pm

Dick, that's a great photo!
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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Paul Green » March 14th, 2014, 3:10 am

Hi Everyone,

As the owner of the largest fleet of Koornwinder Kars (confirmed by Dick himself), I can tell you that the reaction from my trade show clients and audiences loved when the Kar found the solution card every time! Crowds of people at the Magic Castle were totally entertained and baffled! It is a wonderful piece of equipment!

I have seen almost all of the copies, and they just don't measure up. The concept of a child's toy is a real winner and the Matchbox version oozes a nerdy kind of class.

My favorite story occurred at the Magic Castle, one night. My assistant was shocked that the Kar stopped on her selected card. No matter how she tried, the Kar would not go past the selected card. BTW, if you perform on a close-up mat, the Kar can be "backed up" and pushed again. When the Kar stops, it carries the card along with it no matter where you push it! Well, this lady became more and more frustrated and finally pushed so hard that my Kar gave a sound like a high pitched wrrrr. My heart broke as my Kar broke!!! Luckily, I always carry a spare!

Buy the authorized versions!!!

Enjoy the Search!

Regards,

Paul Green :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Steve Mills » March 14th, 2014, 11:57 am

Just for completeness, here's a so-so picture of my Deluxe version. I have no idea whether they all were this model or whether various models were used. Maybe Paul or Dick know.

To use this one you put a finger on the hood ornament and when it reaches the appointed spot one of the front wheels lock and it turns and faces the card. Kinda cool.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Paul Green » March 14th, 2014, 4:46 pm

All of the Deluxe Kars that i have ever seen are the 1914 Prince Henry Vauxhall as pictured above.

The only other Kars that I know about were much larger--about 6 inches long. Pete Biro had one and Mike Caveney had one. They looked a pull toy that a toddler would play with. I think there very few of these made!

I love my Kars!

Enjoy the Search.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Dick Koornwinder » March 14th, 2014, 9:19 pm

No, I'm not surprised if I see on eBay a so-called copy of the Kar but I'm flabbergasted if the sellers are so shameless to call it Koornwinder Kars. Well if it is a rainy afternoon and I have some time I force, sometimes with eBay's VeRO Program, the sellers to cancel their auctions but it is not raining every day here in the Netherlands.

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Re: Let's discuss the KOORNWINDER KAR...

Postby Chris Aguilar » March 15th, 2014, 12:08 am

The crystal car listed on e-bay ($16 shipped) is tempting. I might purchase one in the interest of evaluating its merits (or lack of them) for myself.


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