Best set of Cups for cups and balls

[John McDonald]

Which set of cups do you think are the best for performing the cups and balls and why? :)

[Pete Biro]

It depends on what you want to do.

Street? Gazzo/Animal Cups - indestructible, big loads.

Stage? Paul Fox Chick Cups (if available) Or Galli Galli cups (almost same but way cheaper).

Close Up? Riser Mini Cups or Standard Paul Fox (Penguin has a clone set very cheap) or Johnson Cups.

Bar? Johnny Paul Cups - BEST ROUTINE.

Close Up? John Ramsay Routine (use Ice Cream Cups).

Entertaining value? Indian Jadoowalla type cups (I sell these).

Collector's item? Sherwood or Buma engraved cups.

WORST: Lightweight aluminum or copper.

[Magic Randy]

John,

Pete is the expert and his advise is sound. What makes the right cups depends alot on what you will be doing with them.

That being said, I suggest you visit Jim Riser's site. In addition to providing high quality cups (I have 3 of his sets), he has an excellent section on selecting a set of cups.

http://www.jamesriser.com/Cups/SelectingCups.html

Good luck on your search...

Randy

[Bill McFadden]

Hey Peat,

Your C&B ratings reminded me that I've been considering the Fred Kaps routine as published by Anthony Brahams. Would you care to comment on how it contrasts with the Johnny Paul (sponge ball) routine? Thanks!

[Guest]

Kaps routine is unique in that lots of the work is done while the cups are mouth up. Makes the angles very tricky. Beautiful to see Kaps do it, poetry.
Mark

[Gerald Deutsch]

For impromptu magic at a dinner table how about coffee cups?

See the Charlie Miller routine on page 174 of "Classic Secrets of Magic" or my one cup routine on page 1064 of Apocalypse (May 1985)

[Pete Biro]

Thinair is right about Kaps' routine. To really see the great Johnny Paul, get the video from www.stevensmagic.com

There you see the classic Vernon, Charlie Miller, etc. as well as Johnny's routine (which I think KILLS).... altho I have more fun doing the Hindu cups.

[John McDonald]

Thank you all for the links and comments.
Best
John

[Bill Duncan]

My buddy Tom Frank sells a set which is built for the road. They're in the Miller/Bertram design and made out of copper. The cups feel wonderful and really solid. They make my Rings and Things set feel like tin foil.

You can view them here .

[Michael Kamen]

In choosing cups, you may want to also consider the size ball you are most comfortable working with. If you are fussy about that, remember that not all cups will accommodate. For example, I agree with Jim Riser's assessment of the quality of the Johnson Cups. My only disappointment with them is they rock (literally not figuratively) with a 1" ball in the attic. Remember that balls sold as 1" are usually 1 1/8" really with their covering. The cups are fine with the little 7/8" knit balls that come with the set.

[Magic Randy]

Pete Biro listed many options, including Brett Sherwoods cups. He listed those as collector items. They are very pricy engraved cups (all silver, silver with gold plating highlights, or all gold plated over silver). I have 2 sets of these which are very nice, but they are expensive. The reason I bring it up is that Brett recently came out with lower priced cups that follow the same design concept. They lack engraving which bring the price down. He has a set that is silver (still expensive) but also a copper and brass set. These are much more affordable. Its worth a look. You can see Bretts cup on his web site.

http://www.sherwoodmagic.com/

Hopefully this helps

Randy

[Jonathan Townsend]

I have a pair of cups for the Ramsay routine. Unpainted. One Haggan Dazzs and one Ben & Jerries. They are not too expensive and for the right price may even come with a tutorial on seemingly impromptu cups and balls options and sleights. :rolleyes:

[Guest]

I have two sets of Gary Animal Cups: A set of original Animals (Babe) and the LARGE Gazzo (respins)) Both are great, I couldn't be happier with the quality. If you USE your cups... these babies hold up.

More info here:

http://www.magicpitch.com/products/cups/index.html

[magicgolfer]

Selecting a set of cups is like buying a car. We look at performace, style, and cost. However, of these three factors, only cost is associated to every purchaser as performance and style will change from person to person.

In the mid 90's I produce a limited edition set of cups, the M.K. Professional Cups, after years of experimentation with a master metal spinner I was able to come up with a set of cups that I felt suited my needs perfectly. I did not intend to originally produce these for the magic community, but the cost and development for just one set was way too exhorbitent. Therefore, I decided to release them in very limited numbers. Only 100 sets were made. When I released them, I received very favorable comments even with the "high" asking price of $300 for a set of cups which at the time was unheard of for brass cups that weren't "collectors cups"--yet -- I wanted them to be used.

Mike Rogers once asked me why I was limiting them to just 100 sets when I could make a lot more money by mass producing them...as stated above, that wasn't my intention. My cups were designed out of my necessity at the time.

Since then, many good and poor sets have hit the marketplace..some have come and gone, but the best way to find a good set of cups is to "test drive" them if possible. If you can't get access to a wide variety of cups in your area, then I suggest to do what you are doing. Ask for opinions, and form your own by checking out Jim Risers site and seeing what makes a good cup as Magic Randy suggested.

Best of luck in finding a set of cups that suits your needs.

Michael

[Pete Biro]

So true... some cups LOOK fabulous and HANDLE lousy... and it may vary from person to person.

[Jim Riser]

I could not agree more with Michael and Pete - the "feel" of the cups is extremely important. Designing a set of cups for comfort in handling is as important as any of the other design concerns. Ross Bertram designed his cups to fit his hand. In the process, he created a fine set of cups. Michael's cups also have that - what I term - "good feel" to them. If at all possible, a seeker of cups for use (vs. collecting) should try to handle as many sets of cups as possible. Those who have never worked with better cups will be unable to understand the difference a good feel to the cups makes. Good cups actually help to make doing the cups and balls easier to perform.
Jim

[Guest]

Magic Inc. (Good Ole Jay !), used to sell the Charlie Miller cups (HEAVY copper, based on the Ross Bertram design, but not finished the way that Ross finished his...), for a mere 15.00! That was as recently as 1990. I owned Golden Gate Magic with Bill Whittington at the time, and we bought many sets at the dealer price (9.00!) and offered them to preferred customers. Jay, seeing how they were selling for us raised the price to 35.00, and even at that they were an INCREDIBLE bargain. I have owned MANY different cups (National Magic, P&L, Paul Fox, Ross Bertram, Rings & Things, Martinka, Sherms, several European sets, the Abbott Indian Cups as well as the Tayade Indian Cups, regular and jumbo liquid loads (double-walled), Charlie Miller Indian Cups (made from coffee percolator tops!), etc.), and absolutely the best were the Magic, Inc. one's I mentioned first.

Why? The cups were/are large enough for virtually any load, but have the "squat" look of the Paul Fox cups so that the load looks really big coming out of the cup. The space between accomodates 1" balls easily, they are a LOOSE fit when nested, so if you are actually using them, and ding or dent them, they will NOT bind. They can really take a beating, one through another, or with a wand, or if they are dropped. They are a VERY heavy copper, so have a good feel to them (I think they used to be advertised as being a half pound of copper per cup, or more...), and came unpolished, no laquer finish on them, so they acquired a nice patina easily. I like the look of an "old" cup, since it seems to me that this takes the "trick cup" idea down a notch in the spectator's mind. My opinion: bar none the best cup for a working pro...

Best, PSC

[Guest]

Don't limit yourself to cups manufactured specifically for magicians. The set of cups I use came from a thrift store, and were possibly votive candle holders. They are the same demensions as the "professional" cups, have a shape halfway between the Paul Fox Cups and the Traditional tapered style cups. They weigh 8 Oz each, hold tennis ball sized final load, easily hold three 7/8 inch balls while nesting, and no one is using a set that even remotly resembles them. All for $6.00 for the set! Keep your eyes open and you might get lucky.

[Frank Starsinic]

Two more to consider:

The Cellini Cups
The JES Cups

The JES cups are a Paul Fox look-alike and are well-made. I use these for close-up.

The Cellini Cups are larger cups and made for the street as well. They barely take a baseball load. They are taller than most and have a very unique shape. I use these outdoors and love them. I love the shape.


I would rather use the cardboard ice-cream containers than the cheapo copper or, god forbid, aluminum cups any day.

At least you're not getting ripped off.
I wonder what flavor Ramsay liked?

[Glenn Farrington]

Here's what I use

Behind the bar:

Small group:Smooth Copper Bret Sherwood Cups. They have a more intimate feel to them and deliver a large load.

Large Group: Van Dokkum standard set. Great heavy feel cup, I use them here for their very high visibility-large load size

Private Parties (formal gathering): Bret Sherwood Silver cups. When you get paid big bucks, its nice to look like you get paid big bucks. This is also the setting to pull out that gorgeous wand you paid a mint for.

Years ago when I worked the street: Paul Fox Chick Cups (still got em)

But at the end of the day it's all about what fits best in your hand. And what looks best presentationally to you.

Worth mentioning are the cups that Riser puts out. If I were working the street today, his traditionals or jumbo cups would fit that bill.

Also, the Porper cups have a great feel and I love the blackened inside of Joe's cups. Man the inside of the silver Sherwood cups are like mirrors and reflect everything. I had to rethink a few moves when an "empty" cup was held with its mouth upwards, and the inside looked red (reflecting our little friend's color on the bottom of the cup.)

Actually the real problem with the Sherwood Silver Cups are that you have to keep them in a drawer. I have a fairly large cup collection displayed in my office. When I put Bret's silver cups on the shelf with them...it made all the other cups look like crap. I never thought that my silver Paul Fox cups would ever look ordinary. Damn you Bret...damn you.

[Brisbin]

RE: Paul Chosse's post -

Wow Paul, thanks for writing about the Magic Inc. cups. I've used them as "workers" for a while, but typically any discussion I've seen tends to focus on them being inexpensive knockoffs of the Ross Bertram cups. Well, others know the history of that better than I, but as Charlie Miller said, "It's a Man's Cup!" - a real heavyweight. And for a long time it was a great value. By the same token, I recently looked at an ad for the Paul Fox cups from Danny Dew in 1979, the year I graduated, and noticed they were selling for $36.00 per set!

Jim Riser has some interesting information on the differences between the Bertram and "Miller" cups, as well as the more recent version of the design, the T. Frank cups.

My only reservation about my set of Miller cups is that the "attic" doesn't really allow enough room for a 1" ball, but then there seems to be many on the market which are also in that category. A slightly smaller size works without giving up too much visibility.

Thanks to everyone in this thread for some outstanding information on cups in general.

[Bill Duncan]

Just a note to correct my earlier post. The T. Frank cups are bronze, not copper.

Tom will be working PCAM for anyone who's attending, if you want to scope out the set.

Great cups, nice presentation box and ironwood wand.

[Pepka]

I currently use Riser's standard cups for formal shows, and his minis on the bar and strolling at my weekly gig. I love to play with the jumbo set, but I'm still figuring out where that large of a final load will come from.
Pepka