Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

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erdnasephile
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Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby erdnasephile » December 9th, 2013, 2:39 pm

One of the great things about the L & L release of the Vernon Revelations series of DVD's is the inclusion of footage of the Professor much younger than what I had ever seen before. In the new footage, he was a bit closer to his prime, and it was interesting to see what difference that made.

I unfortunately missed out on seeing Dingle and Jennings in their prime and I suspect that the current video footage I have on them does not convey them at their very best.

Does anyone know if footage exists of them in their prime? If not, what available videos would you consider to be their best, recorded work?

(PS: As a side note: I am very appreciative many of today's current masters for performing on recorded media at the height of their powers--it's such a privilege to be able to see so many greats that I'll never meet in person).

(PPS: The other close-up legend I would have loved to have seen was Ron Wilson. However, I've not been able to locate any close-up footage of him).

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 9th, 2013, 2:55 pm

Ron Wilson wasn't shot in his prime, which is a pity. He was incredible.

The only decent video of Jennings and Dingle are the so called "Paris Super Sessions" shot by Dominique Duvivier when they were in Paris for his convention in 1995. Don't think they're available any longer on tape and no DVDs have surfaced.

Neither Dingle nor Jennings were comfortable in front of a camera, and all footage really pales when compared to standing in front of them live.
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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Q. Kumber » December 9th, 2013, 5:18 pm

We are very lucky that Joe Stevens captured so many when he did, especially Don Alan doing his full set with breaks.

I know some of the other performers did not shine as they should have done, but at least there is some record of them.

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Brad Jeffers » December 9th, 2013, 6:05 pm

Tannen's Stars of Magic video series is in my opinion, the best Derek Dingle footage available. It was shot around 1985, when Dingle would have been 48 years old. There were six effects on his individual tape and one other (Too Many Cards) on the "All Stars" tape.

The entire original eleven Stars of Magic video tapes were re-released in a boxed dvd set that sells for around $150.

Erdnasephile, If you want it, I have an original VHS tape of Derek Dingle's Stars of Magic session. Just send me your address and it's yours.

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erdnasephile
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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby erdnasephile » December 10th, 2013, 1:24 pm

Thanks for the leads, everyone! (Q: the Don Alan Steven's session is one of my favorites. I think Joe Stevens also is one of the few (only?) guys to get Weber performing his stuff on tape as well--although one could argue Weber's prime was still to come at that point)

Brad, thanks so much for your kind offer--I very much appreciate it! I'm in the process of dropping VHS tapes, so I think I will take your suggestion instead and hunt down the Stars of Magic DVD's.

Sad that the "Paris Sessions" that Richard refers to never made it to DVD. Can't even find the tapes yet.

IMHO, there are two others who deserve a modern DVD set: Earl Nelson and the late, Barry Price (from what I've heard, that would have been great).

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Brad Jeffers » December 10th, 2013, 4:11 pm

Gary Plants wrote: Derek was also on a TV special called Close Up Magic with Derek Dingle. There is another show titled the Magic of Derek Dingle.


I would love to see these. Do copies exist? I'm sure they must. Someone should put these on youtube.

Here is Dingle doing "Too Many Cards", from the Tannen videos.

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 10th, 2013, 5:36 pm

There is no show called "Magic of Derek Dingle." It's a videotape. Used to have one, with Derek doing his usual material.
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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby erdnasephile » December 10th, 2013, 5:51 pm

Those of you that knew Derek...was it really true he only did about 5 tricks for laypeople?

All that other brilliant stuff, just not used?

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 10th, 2013, 6:16 pm

The question of who owns a copyright, should a copyright exist, is often not clear. In fact there often is no copyright owner unless it's a professional production with contracts that stipulare what rights belong to who.
It also depends upon who is on the tape, and who owns the rights to use that person's image for terms of commerce.
None of these are simple questions, and often the questions have no clear answer, either morally or legally.
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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 10th, 2013, 7:51 pm

Who is the person? The camera man? The person who got everyone together in the room?

I would say, in your scenario, that each individual who was filmed owns the right to his own image, not just the person who gathered them in the room and promised never to make copies of the tape for anyone but them.
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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Brad Henderson » December 11th, 2013, 1:21 pm

I'm no lawyer, but I asked a similar question of one once. He was under the impression that LEGALLY the person who made the video has the copyright on that 'artifact'. Without that person's permission no copy can be legally made of the video.

if that video were made as a work for hire, the. the person who paid for the video would own the copyright.

there could be further hurdles - those involving the participants' work/image etc, but THAT video is a copyrighted work and cannot be copied without the film owner's permission.

fwiw

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby R.E.Byrnes » December 11th, 2013, 2:53 pm

Richard is right that there is often not a single, clearly correct copyright designation, which makes for a good law school exam question far more than practical certainty. As a practical matter, therefore, when copyright is ambiguous like this there is often an effort to assemble everyone with a plausible claim to come to an agreement before something is released. Especially as time passes and various iterations of the copyright statutes are implicated, this uncertain circumstance is more likely. A few years ago I had a case where the "Citizen Kane" copyright was at issue, and while that might seem unlikely to give rise to multiple plausible copyright claims, it did, and there are far more uncertain variables in the Dingle example discussed above.

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby erdnasephile » May 19th, 2015, 7:51 am

I just came across these DVD's yesterday:

https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic ... oplay=true

Are these the Paris Super Session videos you were all referring to?

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Thomas Van Aken » May 19th, 2015, 8:27 am

Hello,

The link indeed refers to the video's shoot by Dominique Duvivier in 1995. Even if Larry was aging at the time, the trailer gives the impression that his technique was still precise. I came to the same conclusion by watching a Magic Castle performance of Larry that surfaced on YouTube a couple of years ago and was discuss on this very forum.

By the way, Larry also appeared on another much older two video's set, also shoot in Paris by Pierre Meyer in the late '70. Don't think it is available on DVD.

Regards

Th.

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby erdnasephile » May 19th, 2015, 12:02 pm

Thank you, Mr. Van Aken.

Here's hoping they release the Dingle Paris footage as well.
Last edited by erdnasephile on May 19th, 2015, 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Bill Mullins » May 19th, 2015, 1:07 pm

Gary Plants wrote:Derek . . . was on a Dick Cavett Special with Dai Vernon and Doug Henning.


TV listings for 10/3/1974:
"Wide World of Entertainment. Dick Cavett has three magicians as guests. Doug Henning is the star of a new Broadway magic musical; Dai Vernon is an older magician; Derek Dingle specializes in sleight of hand."

Barbara Walters' daytime talk show "Not for Women Only" had magicians every day for a week in 1975 (I've seen listings for Jan, Mar and May. dunno if they were reruns, or distributed on different schedules in different markets).
Monday: Doug Henning
Tuesday: Mark Wilson, Randi, Doug Henning
Wednesday: Wilson, Randi, Henning
Thursday: Celeste Evans, Milbourne Christopher
Friday: Derek Dingle

On 21 Oct 1975 (actually, very early on 22 Oct) Doug Henning and Derek Dingle were on Tom Snyder's Tomorrow show. It was re-run in June 1976.

Larry Thornton made some footage of Dingle. He was on one of David Frost's shows.

A Derek Dingle quote: "I loathe doing magic for children. I do a lot of standing and they're basicall short."

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Tom Gilbert » May 19th, 2015, 1:22 pm

I wish that Cavett show was available.

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Bill Mullins » May 19th, 2015, 4:42 pm

Yes. I'd also love to see the Tomorrow Show with Dingle, and also the ones that Snyder did with Ricky Jay/John Scarne/David Copperfield, and with Dai Vernon/Mark Wilson/Walter Gibson.

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Bill Mullins » May 20th, 2015, 12:39 am

To Richard -- When Larry Jennings released his "Thoughts on Cards" video in 1994, a special limited edition (signed, 100 copies) included 3 tricks that, as far as I can tell, haven't been released anywhere else (certainly not on the DVD re-release of the tapes): Collectors for Collectors, Culling the Mark, and Thunderstruck. Will these be included in the forthcoming Jennings books?

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 20th, 2015, 12:40 am

Yes they will.
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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby erdnasephile » May 20th, 2015, 1:37 am

Cool!

I am also looking forward to finally finding out what the "Iron Boat" was all about. :D

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby jjsanvert » May 20th, 2015, 7:50 am

Erdnasephile, yes this is the Paris tape. You can hear my voice translating Jennings' voice in French as we recorded this.

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby erdnasephile » May 20th, 2015, 10:48 am

Thank you for your reply, M. Sanvert.

I just ordered the DVD's and I shall look forward to hearing your translation.

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 20th, 2015, 12:00 pm

The Iron Boat has never been published. It's Jennings' original routine using the Pop-Up Move with coins if memory serves.
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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Bill Mullins » May 26th, 2015, 10:17 pm

Richard -- in a 1987 column in Genii you wrote that one of Larry's Pierre Mayer tapes wouldn't be released in America because of threatened law suits from Jeff Busby. Since he died, has their been any move to get it released?

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 27th, 2015, 12:46 am

It was released as a tape by Joe Stevens, and then (perhaps) by DVD by Twin Cities.
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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Leonard Hevia » May 27th, 2015, 12:57 am

erdnasephile wrote:Those of you that knew Derek...was it really true he only did about 5 tricks for laypeople?

All that other brilliant stuff, just not used?


Yes, it was true. Later in his life, Dingle distilled it down to just 5 tricks. You can read about that in Derek Dingle's Last Notes.:

http://richmarotta.com/store/derek-dingles-last-notes/

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Bill Mullins » May 27th, 2015, 1:25 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:It was released as a tape by Joe Stevens, and then (perhaps) by DVD by Twin Cities.


I thought this was a "best of" selection of tricks from the two Mayer tapes, and was wondering if the Mayer tapes were ever released in full in America.

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby erdnasephile » May 27th, 2015, 9:19 am

The contents of the Pierre Mayer tapes are:
Larry Jennings Close Up Part 1
EZ Coins Across
Synchronicity
Maestro’s Poker Demonstration
Single Cup And Ball

Larry Jennings Close Up Part 2
Coin Cut
Prefiguration
3 Coins Thru Table
Impossible
The Chop Cup
Reverse Card In The Deck
Turn And Take Bottom
One Hand Bottom Palm

The DVD of this material was produced in 2005 by Steven's Magic Emporium and called "Larry Jennings Close Up". The contents are the identical except "The Chop Cup" performance and explanation is not included.

I think the chop cup material was put on this video instead: https://www.stevensmagic.com/shop/class ... -gmvl-dvd/

The Chop Cup routine also shows up in Larry Jennings: A Private Lesson DVD from L & L

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Bill Mullins » May 27th, 2015, 11:04 am

Thanks for clearing it up.

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 27th, 2015, 2:22 pm

Jeff Busby made the absurd claim that no one could publish (or put on video) any of Larry's material which appeared in "Larry Jennings on Card and Coin Handling" including any variations by Larry himself!

We took care of that nonsense many decades ago, but when Busby's pal Dave Hardy (an attorney) was alive, he would bombard people with legal cease and desist letters and scare the crap out them. Now they're both dead, and good riddance. They managed to scare Joe Stephens into not releasing Pierre Meyer's second videotape, but Joe still sold it quietly at conventions.

It was later released on DVD, but as noted above, sadly the Chop Cup routine was excluded and put on a different DVD instead, which was a mistake. The DVD should have reflected the content of the original tape.
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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Steve Mills » May 27th, 2015, 2:33 pm

erdnasephile wrote:Thank you, Mr. Van Aken.

Here's hoping they release the Dingle Paris footage as well.


Ironically, if you look at these DVDs both volume 1 and volume 2 are named "Derek Dingle"!

I can only assume there are Dingle DVDs in the pipeline named "Larry Jennings"?
I'm a living example that if you speak softly, you will get hit by a big stick.

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 27th, 2015, 3:15 pm

There was only 1 video of Dingle, while there were two of Jennings.
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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Dustin Stinett » May 27th, 2015, 3:35 pm

There are two Dingle videos (available on DVD from Meir Yedid): "Dingle's Deceptions" and "Dingle's Delights."
https://www.mymagic.com/dingle.htm

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Rigonally » May 27th, 2015, 4:30 pm

Dustin Stinett wrote:There are two Dingle videos (available on DVD from Meir Yedid): "Dingle's Deceptions" and "Dingle's Delights."
https://www.mymagic.com/dingle.htm



Dustin is correct.

2 tapes from Meir Yedid - http://mymagic.com/dingle.htm

Stars of Magic Tape - http://mymagic.com/dingle.htm

All Stars - Star of Magic Tape - http://www.murphysmagic.com/Streaming/P ... x?id=50635

and A-1 Convention at the Capital Tape 1998 - performs and explains "Silver Quick"

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 27th, 2015, 5:12 pm

I was referring to the tapes of Dingle and Jennings made in Paris. There are two Jennings tapes/DVDs and one Dingle tape.
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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby paulsunday » August 24th, 2015, 11:53 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:There is no show called "Magic of Derek Dingle." It's a videotape. Used to have one, with Derek doing his usual material.


This was in a local public library and it was pretty damn good. Wish I could still get a copy.

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby Tom Gilbert » August 25th, 2015, 7:31 am

I was told the Dingle Paris Session would be released later this year.

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby performer » August 25th, 2015, 8:09 am

I must have a different mindset from most magicians. I am not necessarily talking about Dingle or Jennings here and I am not going to name any particular people specifically but I am alway baffled by the fact that people who are accepted as legends in the magic community fill me with great indifference when I watch them. I have never figured out what I am supposed to be excited about.

I have seen alleged legends both on video and working live and they leave me flat. I just shrug my shoulders and say "So what?" I just can't figure out what is supposed to be so legendary about them. Sure, their technique is pretty good and they may have devised some wonderful material (although often impractical for laymen) but they seem to have a lot lacking in more important areas.

They often have a startling lack of charisma and exhibit the personality of a dial tone. Magicians are supposed to be colourful people but all too often they are dull and lack presentational skills. Or they go to the other extreme which is just as bad. That is, that they are overloud and excitable. A loud mouthed performer who overpresents and talks too much is just as bad as a meek introvert mumbling away doing colourless card tricks. Yet I constantly see both types represented as superlative performers in the magic community. But they aren't. They are mediocre at worst and adequate at best.

And worst sin of all is that they don't know how to manipulate the people. They can manipulate the props but they can't manipulate the PEOPLE. And magic is people.

I often wonder if my attitude was the same when I first started magic. Perhaps I was more enthusiastic and less jaded than I am now. The trouble is that it was so long ago that I can't remember. The truth of the matter is that watching magic bores me stiff and has done for many, many years.

I love doing it though and will do so at the drop of a hat. Watching it however, is purgatory for me except on very rare occasions.

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Re: Video of Dingle and Jennings in their prime?

Postby erdnasephile » June 11th, 2016, 1:14 pm

I ended up getting the Larry Jennings in Paris, France DVD set which was great!

I noticed this today: http://www.mayette.com/produit/derek-di ... ek_dingle/

Anyone know if this DVD is available in the US? I can't seem to find a US dealer that carries it.


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