Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
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Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Guest » July 18th, 2003, 11:06 am

I am compiling a list of tricks that a beginner would love to know but does not know who to ask to print in a book or a DVD. It should be called "Tricks you've always wanted to learn but never knew who to ask"

As a DVD, I would probably use 10-12 different tricks per DVD.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

www.JeffEzellMAGIC.com

Guest

Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Guest » July 18th, 2003, 10:46 pm

I'm sort of confused about this, do you mean that if there is a trick that someone wants to learn but doesn't know where to learn it from then it would be put on a DVD? It seems like you are planning on making some sort of compilation DVD, I'm not a big fan of those. Sorry If I missunderstood your post.

Noah Levine

Guest

Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Guest » July 19th, 2003, 9:56 am

Yes Noah,

It would be a compilation styled DVD.

www.JeffEzellMAGIC.com

Guest

Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Guest » July 19th, 2003, 10:36 am

Well with all due respect why the heck would you want to do that? To make it easier for people to learn stuff thats already in print?


Noah Levine

Guest

Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Guest » July 19th, 2003, 10:46 am

Originally posted by Noah Levine:
Well with all due respect why the heck would you want to do that? To make it easier for people to learn stuff thats already in print?


Noah Levine
Hi Noah,

Many people seem to have different styles of learning. Visual aids seem to be extremely popular among the 'newcomers' in magic. If you see it and then read it or vice versa...it seems to be an easier learn for the beginner who wants to get started.

So what I am basically asking is for people to think back to when you first started in magic and remember the trick that made you say..."If I could just learn that one trick" I have quite a few in mind but would like to hear from others. Respectfully.

www.JeffEzellMAGIC.com

Bill Duncan
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Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Bill Duncan » July 19th, 2003, 12:49 pm

It seems like the market is already saturated with videos and books for those who want to become a magician overnight. Does the world really need another one?

Is it a good idea to feed the mistaken impression that "If I could just learn that one trick" i'd be a magician?

cheers
bill

Guest

Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Guest » July 19th, 2003, 2:41 pm

Originally posted by Bill Duncan:
It seems like the market is already saturated with videos and books for those who want to become a magician overnight. Does the world really need another one?
Hi Bill,

I agree with the saturation point to a point. My thought is that people love to learn different styles or approaches. Different people also teach differently. We have all seen the bad videos and the good ones. By now, we know what a good video should consist of and I can bring that to the table.

There are many paddle tricks, does the world need another one...sure, If it presents a different or unique approach as perceived by the viewer. Does the world need another card effect, another sponge ball effect, another coins across or 3 fly, more rope magic, another newspaper tear. Absolutely.

Simply because the crave will always be there as long as there is a continuous supply and as long as there is a buyer. (which takes me to your next statement)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Duncan:
Is it a good idea to feed the mistaken impression that "If I could just learn that one trick" i'd be a magician

You may see it as a mistaken impression. I see it as the light that turned on when I was a kid watching Doug Henning do close up magic on national television. That same light can be turned on to fuel the next generation of young magicians who have the urge to try magic on for size. And when they do go to the local magic store, they really do feel that they can be a magician. Certainly, all of us started in similar situations...but, bottom line, it had to start somewhere.

Just another step to keep magic going and keeping it fun.

www.JeffEzellMAGIC.com

Guest

Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Guest » July 19th, 2003, 4:17 pm

Jeff, I don't think you're going to find many friends in the world of magic. Don't forget, most of these guys' livelihood depends on the fact that they know something that others don't.

I'm with you, I think it's a great idea.

Noah, is there something wrong with wanting to make it easier for n00bs to learn stuff that's already in print?

You might consider it accessible because it's already in print, many of us don't have access to several hundred volumes of magic books, nor the time to study them.

Back on topic, I would suggest:

Chop Cup
Cups and Balls
Ambitious Card - including a number of sleights
Self Folding Bill
Floating Note
A Sponge Ball routine (One in the hand etc)
Sawing the lady in half
Disappearing - and reappearing - a silk
Chink a chink
Cut and Restored Rope
Two Card monte
Three Card Monte
Oil and Water

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Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 19th, 2003, 4:29 pm

You couldn't include the self-folding bill, it's not a public domain item. It belongs to ONE guy, I think he's scandinavian, and boy has he been ripped off!
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Guest

Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Guest » July 19th, 2003, 4:53 pm

Namely Stephan Schutzer from Sweden:

http://www.magispecialisten.com/

(see "products" in the English version).

See you at FISM!

Seb.

Guest

Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Guest » July 19th, 2003, 5:51 pm

Chris I think there is something wrong with making it easier for new people to learn stuff thats already in print.Magic is about working HARD and studying. And if someone doesn't have the time to study magic they shouldn't be doing it. Sorry, to sound like a jerk but I'm frusterated by the notion that magic should be easy and accesible to anybody with a VCR.


Noah Levine

Guest

Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Guest » July 19th, 2003, 7:26 pm

Originally posted by Noah Levine:
Magic is about working HARD and studying. And if someone doesn't have the time to study magic they shouldn't be doing it. Sorry, to sound like a jerk but I'm frusterated by the notion that magic should be easy and accesible to anybody with a VCR.


Noah Levine
Hi Noah,

The VCR or DVD just makes it more understandable because you can SEE the effect in real time. Why do you think so many dealers are putting video demos on the site. (so you can SEE the trick being performed) As opposed to reading a description that is badly interpreted.

It leads to the excitement or the next level. It gets them involved. If 10 people watch the DVD and only 1 actually becomes interested in magic(yes those are bad odds) then there is one more "magician to be" in the making. If it were easy, everybody would do it.

The hard work does need to be put in and their is a level of commitment needed...but people have to be able to make the decision first if they want to go this route. The way to do that is by exposing them to a little bit of magic and then let them decide. The ones that want nothing to do with it will fall off to the side and others will grow.

I think that poking at the curiosity of others who are, kind of perhaps maybe with a little prodding, thinking about taking lessons or buying a DVD or Video will only increase the magic community and make it more prosperous.

Others are right about saying I may not make alot of friends with this thinking, but a little conflict never hurt anyone.

Either way, your ideas and suggestions are appreciated and will be considered.

Thanks again,

www.JeffEzellMAGIC.com

Guest

Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Guest » July 19th, 2003, 8:04 pm

I'm not sure what the new angle is on this. There is no lack of material for the beginner on the market.

However, you said you were " compiling a list of tricks that a beginner would love to know but does not know who to ask ..."
The beginners only have in mind the last few things that amazed them...usually on T.V. The format of exposures has been to do just what you're proposing...explain how the most stunning effects were done...and you can check them out at your local video store.

The tricks a beginner would "love to know" are not always (or usually) the best tricks for a beginner to find out about. That's one of the differences between teaching and exposing (in any field). To teach means you control the material and only offer what is within their ability to master. Exposure is just to satisfy their curiosity.

Now your title could just be a marketing ploy, but I certainly hope you don't really tell them "what they were love to know..."

Here's a list of tricks that may prove popular:

"How do I snatch the bra off a cute girl while pretending to do a hanky trick?"

"I want to do that flying around outside trick"

"How do I tear up some money and stick it back together one piece at a time?"

"How can I get a date with a super model..."

Guest

Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Guest » July 19th, 2003, 8:22 pm

Originally posted by Bill Jackson:
Now your title could just be a marketing ploy, but I certainly hope you don't really tell them "what they were love to know..."

Bill,

A catchy title is what is needed. You hit the nail on the head with your comment on teaching as opposed to exposing and entry level style tricks.

I laughed out loud at your suggestions! Great sense of humor...

www.JeffEzellMAGIC.com

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Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Frank Yuen » July 19th, 2003, 8:32 pm

I've said it before on this forum but I'll say it again, I wasn't aware that magicians were an endangered species. I always hear, "Where are the new magicians going to come from?" Well... the same place they've always come from. There is no shortage of magicians. I've always been of the opinion that just about every young boy tries magic at one time or another, just like they all seem to go through a dinosaur phase. I don't think the future of magic is in danger except for this new entitlement attitude that everyone seems to have.

As far as making access to stuff easier, what's wrong with a little hard work to earn what you desire? Perhaps people ought to realize that if they can't afford something then maybe they just can't have it. Everything these days is about "Give it to me and give it to me now." Everyone wants to be spoon fed.

As Bill stated, this sounds like nothing more than the masked magician shows and the first thought that entered my mind was that the effects that people would request aren't yours to give away. But of course that didn't stop the masked magician. Sorry to say this but the "making it easier for them to learn" line just sounds like an excuse to expose a bunch of stuff for a quick buck.

Frank Yuen

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Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Ian Kendall » July 20th, 2003, 6:48 am

I understand everyone's point of view here. If Jeff truely wishes to inspire the next generation that would be great. If the DVD were sold at cost, or even a loss (to give something back to magic) by a non profit company I would feel better.

I can't see this happening, though. There are scads of teaching books, videos and DVDs out there, aimed at beginners. We don't need any more.

Take care, Ian

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Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Jonathan Townsend » July 20th, 2003, 7:12 am

Hello Jeff... folks,


Making these items visible and associating the proper crediting and context might be a great educational tool in magic. This could be done for sleights, routines and illusions. Potentially the making of a very good series.

I 'm not so much a fan of exposing HOW the routines work on DVD, as most belong to the living inventor, their estate and/or are marketed items that are a livlyhood for some.

I do like the idea of a DVD that shows these things in action and gives the proper name of the trick or routine, the name of the inventor and the availability of the item. Not necessarily the price or the name of a retail outlet.

I can imagine such a DVD (or set) used as advertisment in the magic shops and as a historical/educational tool for students.

My 'vote' is to produce the collection WITHOUT explanations. Just performance, credits and product availability.

Though perhaps some discretion about labeling items as 'rip of of' or 'stolen' or 'published without permission' should be exercised. No sense in tipping how much material gets TAKEN without permission in the craft. It would be nice to see the illusions in the Harbin book performed on film clips. Same for the small routines in Bobo's and Expert Card Technique.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Guest

Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Guest » July 20th, 2003, 10:34 am

All points taken. Thanks for your input.

www.JeffEzellMAGIC.com

Guest

Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Guest » August 5th, 2003, 6:18 am

There are a number of places non-magicians can learn the "Secrets", for not only simple, but also advanced effects. I for one think a compilation DVD would be a good idea for the beginner. I don't mean a DVD that would be available in Walmart, but only in magic shops. When I was young I was very interested in becomming a magician, however, I became discouraged very quickly. The books I found were very hard to understand, mainly because you needed sleights to do the effects, but they did't explain the sleights. It wasn't until I was 30 that I decided to try my hand at magic again. It was easier, but there were still some things I needed to know to help me along the way. I think a complition DVD would be a great tool for the serious beginner. Items I would consider would be:

Basic Card handling: Shuffles, cuts
Card Forces
Terminology
Information on local and national magic organizations

Good luck Jeff.

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Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Chris Bailey » August 5th, 2003, 6:51 am

I like the idea of a performance video. I just wish the slew of new people getting involved with magic would actually buy a book. They seem to only know what they learn from videos and when their only source is something like Ellusionist, then they "Be Honest What Is It?" is just Blaine's 2-Card Monte. A lot of them just seem lazy too. You mention a routine,sleight or move and the very next reply is "Where can I watch a video of that?" I was quite sad when I saw a post where the person was asking where they could learn on the net through video Marlo's Snap Change and I mentioned maybe they should learn it from the source in one of his books. Another poster said "You could find it on Marlo's Cardician video." I don't get it. I LOVE a good magic book. Why the urgency to get everything spoon fed these days?

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Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Randy DiMarco » August 5th, 2003, 8:01 am

Originally posted by jonesc2ii:


You might consider it accessible because it's already in print, many of us don't have access to several hundred volumes of magic books, nor the time to study them.
If you do not have access to the books then you do not "own" the right to learn the material. As for having the time to study, there is always stamp collecting

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Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Chris Aguilar » August 5th, 2003, 8:33 am

I do not understand it when I hear someone bemoan how "hard" it is to learn from books.

Sure, some of the more advanced books would be quite difficult for a beginner to wade through.

The secret IMHO, is finding the right beginners books and resisting the urge to jump ahead right away. Would a beginning pianist immediately expect to be able to play every Mozart or Beethoven symphony? I think not. But beginners to magic seem to often espouse an "I want it now" type of attitude.

Dummies Guide to Magic
Loraynes Magic Book
Mark Wilsons Course in Magic
Scarnes Card Tricks


These books are well written and are easily accessible to anyone with even marginal reading skills. Many of the effects are sleightless (a term I prefer to "self working") and many are quite strong. Perhaps if beginners were exposed to books like this prior to the glut of learning videos out there, they would have a finer appreciation for the joys of book learning.

I quite like Mr. Townsends idea of "performance only" videos, but don't see it catching on. Not much money in selling "performance only" videos to newbies craving secrets eh? :(
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Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Ed Oschmann » August 5th, 2003, 8:39 am

I came into the world of magic in the late seventies, just a few short years before the advent of video instruction. Now, I'm as ADD as the next magician, but I had no choice in how to learn "new" material. It was either books, or bug the hell out of the local pros. Learning magic fast was never an option. I slaved over Bobos, struggled with 'Stars', cried reading the Amateur Magicians Handbook. Was it worth it? Uh....yeah.
I get irritated when people say that they "Can't learn from books, only videos (insert whiney voice here). Remember folks, there wasn't always a choice.
Work for your miracles.
Respectfully, Ed

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Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Scott » August 5th, 2003, 9:43 am

Originally posted by Chris Aguilar:
I do not understand it when I hear someone bemoan how "hard" it is to learn from books.

Sure, some of the more advanced books would be quite difficult for a beginner to wade through.

Perhaps you don't understand this because you are one who understands and learns well from books. It's a scientific fact that people learn in different ways. It depends on which side of your brain is dominent. People who are right brain thinkers tend to need to "see" things to learn, and people who are left brain dominent tend to be able to read something and fully understand it. They are called "Auditory and Visual Learners". Some people are auditory and some are visual. There are test on the internet that allow you to test yourself and see which one you are and what is the best way to learn for You. They often make recommendations on how to bridge the gap, but make no mistake, it's very real and it's very frustrating to hear so many people say that books are better than videos. That's an impossible statement to make. People who make that statement are ignorant of how people's brains work differently. Both are excellent ways to learn and both work better for different people.

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Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Chris Aguilar » August 5th, 2003, 11:09 am

Scott,
Your points are well taken.

Please do not think I'm completely "anti-video". If some feel that videos are their only avenue towards learning, I'm certain I can't say much that will disabuse them of that notion. I'll sometimes use videos myself as an ancillary source to view certain difficult moves that don't lend themselves to (or are not available on) the written page. I can see your point as being more strongly relevant when the material is complex, but the books I referenced contain materials meant to be easily learned. No matter how "visually oriented" one may be, it would take evidence of an actual learning disorder to convince me that the average reader couldn't learn effectively from the books I referenced.

However, whilst some are truly "visual Learners" I feel the excuse is often used by some who are simply unwilling to put in the effort to learn via reading. Some use the (sometimes valid) excuse of being a "visual learner" merely because the effort to extract information from the written page is more than they prefer.

Geoff Latta made some comments about "video learning" that I think apply to me. Whenever I watch videos, the material just doesn't "stick" the same way it does when I make a concerted effort to learn something from the written page. You're saying that in some circumstances, the situation might be reversed and I don't disagree with that.

Is the ever rising demand for videos an indicator that more people are "visual learners" than we've had in the past? Of does it indicate that our younger generation simply doesn't view reading as a pleasurable or viable means of learning magic? Are the books I mentioned earlier really so difficult to learn from?
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Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Guest » August 6th, 2003, 3:06 am

Perhaps the more general point is that the "younger generation" - whether that is people born in the 1970s or '80s or '90s - are simply more used to learning from pictures (and from experience/seminars/coursework) than from books. Regardless of whether that learning is about magic or science or history or even literature. Books require concentration and imaginative effort that many are not used to making.

I grew up in South Africa, where we didn't even have television until 1975! It's a long way from the MTV generation (even though I am still on the youthful side of 40).

Another observation I would make, which is merely anecdotal, is that the US education system seems to produce a surprisingly large number of people who are essentially semi-literate and therefore not comfortable with the written word.

[better hide now]

Andrew

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Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby mark » August 6th, 2003, 6:45 am

Andrew, there is certainly no reason to hide from me, I agree with you. Watching my sons and their friends I can see that my efforts to get them to read on a daily basis is paying off.
There are many reasons for the books/video discussion, and I suppose we would mostly agree that there are uses for both. The use for either should never be an excuse to avoid the other, though. To turn away from books and decide that all might be gained from videos is to turn our backs on some of the finest magic available. There aren't many videos outlining Al Baker's routines, or most of the Greater Magic tome. In order to appreciate magic fully, one must have that sense of history, evolution, and refinement of the art that only comes from books. There may be scientific evidence concerning who learns best from different media, but the best advice is to put in the effort - that gives a much higher quality product. You can't stand on the shoulders of the greats without a little climbing.

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Re: Tricks you've always wanted to know but did not know who to ask..

Postby Kamus » August 10th, 2003, 6:30 pm

I don't think real magicians are in danger as a result of the flood of instant magicians. There are no shortcuts to artistry. If only there were! I'm a pianist and I 've worked long and hard to play at a respectable professional level. The other night, I came across a show on PBS: "Learn to Play Piano in a Flash" -I watched it and laughed out loud. It should have been called: "Experience some instant, non-lasting gratification while seated at the piano."

Laymen know the difference between someone who stumbles through "Color Monte" and Tamariz doing "Oil and Water" just as they know difference between the lady who plays piano at the church and Oscar Peterson/Horowitz etc.
I think the flood of instant magicians may be good for magic as when these guys discover how much hard work it takes to truly be good, they'll drop the activity but become appreciative audiences of those that truly have worked hard.

Sorry, I guess this is a little OT from the original question- I think that there plenty of products geared to the beginner already- another one will niether help nor hinder the world of magic.

$0.02

Dave Kane


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