Name of card move?

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
Mallakite
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Name of card move?

Postby Mallakite » August 19th, 2011, 10:25 pm

Hi, does anyone know the name of the card move Chris Kenner does at 4:25 in this video and where I can learn it? Thanks.

Chris Kenner

Justin Wheatley
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Justin Wheatley » August 20th, 2011, 1:57 am

Looks to be an extremely well-executed Malone shift.

Philippe Billot
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Philippe Billot » August 20th, 2011, 3:17 am

Isn't it the S.W.E. Shift?

Frank Yuen
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Frank Yuen » August 20th, 2011, 8:07 am

Hand positions are not in the correct place for an S.W.E. Shift but definitely it is a pass of some sort. Herrmann I think.

Mallakite
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Mallakite » August 20th, 2011, 8:11 am

I don't understand how he could do a Herrmann pass with cards in multiple positions in the deck.

Frank Yuen
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Frank Yuen » August 20th, 2011, 9:33 am

At the 4:25 part of the video the aces go into the deck together.

Philippe Billot
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Philippe Billot » August 20th, 2011, 9:54 am

Don't you turn the deck when you do a Herrmann Pass? That is face down to face up or vice versa.

Mallakite
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Mallakite » August 20th, 2011, 10:08 am

I'm talking about the move that starts after 4:25 when he place the 4 aces face up into different parts of the deck and does a move and then all 4 are face up on the top of the deck.

Philippe Billot
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Philippe Billot » August 20th, 2011, 10:53 am

Istn't named a Multiple Shift to the top?

Tomas Blomberg
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Tomas Blomberg » August 20th, 2011, 3:57 pm

It's Don May's and can be found in David Solomon's book The Wisdom of Solomon.

/Tomas

Frank Yuen
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Frank Yuen » August 20th, 2011, 8:27 pm

Well you did originally ask for the move at 4:25. Not sure if the Don May reference is correct but the move you're really asking about looks like a pass of the four cards from the middle of the deck. If you look at the video closely you'll notice something that makes it easier than it sounds.

Tomas Blomberg
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Tomas Blomberg » August 21st, 2011, 6:23 am

I assumed it was the sequence of inserting the four cards that was asked about. Malone does it perfectly. I also had the pleasure of spending a day with Don May thanks to Solomon. The sequence is definitely Don May's.

If it's the pass that is asked for, I'm not sure, but the Malone reference could be correct.

/Tomas

Thomas Van Aken
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Thomas Van Aken » August 22nd, 2011, 4:36 am

Philippe,

The term "Herrmann Pass" refer to a general mechanic to transpose the two parts of the deck. It is different of the mechanic used in the classic pass. The turnover action is a standard cover for an Herrmann pass (tot the point that some peoples started to label all form of Herrmann passes "Turnover passes", Gary Ouellet culminating by introducing the term of "no turnover turnover passes") but it is not the only one. Exemple of Herrmann passes without the turnover cover are the abovementionned Malone Shift and Steve Draun Midnight shift among others. By the way, the earlier descriptions of the Herman pass (Roterberg ?) did not include the turnover action.

Regards

Thomas

Philippe Billot
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Philippe Billot » August 22nd, 2011, 5:05 am

Excerpt from New Era Card Trick (1897), Magico edition, 2004:

The Herrmann Pass, page 10-12

Page 12, second paragraph:

"THE BEST WAY in which to use this pass, will be to have the selected card laid on paquet B, upon which C is then placed; its back being turned towrads the spectators who, as we will take for granted, keep their eye on the rear card. The pass is then made under cover of C as explained, the PACK BEING TURNED FACE UPWARDS DURING THE OPERATION THAT COMPLETELY DISGUISING THE SLEIGHT."

But I understand that you can do the Herrmann (or Hofzinser?) pass without turning the deck.

Thomas Van Aken
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Thomas Van Aken » August 22nd, 2011, 5:41 am

So it must be earlier than Roterberg. Sorry I am away from my library.

But yes, you can do an Herrmann/Hofzinser type of pass without turning the deck over but you need to cover the former bottom packet falling on the former upper packet. In the Malone shift you sweeps the left fingers on the top card, the Midnight shift uses an all around square up type action and the Jack Miller color change uses a quick up and down movement of the left hand for exemple.

Philippe Billot
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Philippe Billot » August 22nd, 2011, 6:23 am

In The Book of Card Tricks (1888) by Professor K. Kunard, he described page 8, a second method for the pass which basically is the same like the Herrmann Pass but without turnover of the deck/pack. Note that he didn't attribute the move to Herrmann.

If you try to do it without turnover, it's possible (don't forget that magicians did the pass stand up and often turned the body on the right or to the left or when they came back to the stage) but as written by Roterberg, the better way is to do the pass turning the deck.

And i think it's for that the Herrmann Pass is associated with the turning of the deck.

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 22nd, 2011, 10:45 am

What cover does Kunard suggest?
FWIW I went with the same cover as Ken Krenzel published, a direct lever of the pack from horizontal to vertical, so the shift ends with the pack facing the audience.

Philippe Billot
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Philippe Billot » August 22nd, 2011, 11:54 am

Jonathan, I send you the page.

Philippe Billot
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Re: Name of card move?

Postby Philippe Billot » August 22nd, 2011, 1:21 pm

Thomas Van Aken wrote:So it must be earlier than Roterberg. Sorry I am away from my library.


Thomas, if you find a reference to the Herrmann (or Hofzinser) Pass before 1888, I'm interested.

Thanks in advance.

Philippe


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