The Magic Menu

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
Silly Walter
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Silly Walter » November 14th, 2009, 1:07 pm

Paul Gordon wrote:... When I visit, I'm often one of the older ones there and I'm in only in my late 40's!

Paul Gordon


I would have guessed you to be in your mid-30's as well, Paul. What is your secret? Pilates?
Silly Walter The Polar Bear

Mark.Lewis
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Mark.Lewis » November 14th, 2009, 5:41 pm

I think his secret is that he IS 35 and lieing about his age to seem more mature and experienced.

Paul Gordon
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Paul Gordon » November 14th, 2009, 5:55 pm

Alcohol abuse, two marriages and a darned hard life! That's my secret...and a trip to Harley Street in London :)
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Mark.Lewis » November 14th, 2009, 8:58 pm

He has just exhibited proof that he is indeed old. He is repeating himself. I do that too. Of course I am even older than he is.

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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Paul Gordon » November 15th, 2009, 1:51 am

If you think I look young, here's my wife in a recent pic - and she's older than me; with three children in their twenties! Paul

Image
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CraigOusterling
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby CraigOusterling » November 16th, 2009, 1:46 pm

My copy arrived Friday. I've only read the first three articles so far (Christopher sounds mad). I'm glad to see it back in print. Congrats again to Jim Sisti and company for getting a periodical back in production.

~Craig

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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Mark.Lewis » November 16th, 2009, 3:31 pm

Christopher IS mad! Of course "mad" could mean "angry" or just "nuts" Which are you referring to? I think he fits both descriptions but I would like to know which is which.

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CraigOusterling
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby CraigOusterling » November 16th, 2009, 7:14 pm

From what various web videos I've seen of Christopher Lyle performing he seems "nutz" mad. In the article in TMM he sounds "angry" mad. I should quantify that anger is a fitting feeling given his article topic.

I'm not good at reading feelings from written words so I could be completely bass-ackwards on my opinion. I'm looking forward to his next topic.

I'm also looking forward to getting home from work and reading the next article- Paul Gordon's trick section. I've seen the video performance on TMM website and am curious what the kicker endings are.

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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Mark.Lewis » November 17th, 2009, 12:53 am

I am hoping to get a copy of the Magic Menu on Wednesday and I am not referring to the Choo Choo trick which used to be called the Magic Menu until Sisti and Munton got to work on it. I shall peruse it carefully to see if it is really as bad as the gentleman who owns it claims it is. He said that Christopher rambled too much. I shall give my verdict later in the week.

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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Mark.Lewis » November 17th, 2009, 7:22 am

I have been reading the Roy Benson book. It seems that Benson tended to agree with Bill Duncan concerning the 6 card repeat saying that it is not a great mystery. If I had the energy I would post the full comments but old, cranky people like me need their rest.

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 17th, 2009, 7:40 am

How do you compare the six card repeat with the Victor Eleven Card trick or the Kaps version using bills?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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CraigOusterling
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby CraigOusterling » November 17th, 2009, 9:18 am

@Mark- I was going to PM you this but you don't accept PMs. Now that I look at it maybe I should tell my WIFE I don't accept PMS either! [ducks flying shoe from other room]...[/looks up and types some more]

I wouldn't call Christopher's article ramblings. I would term it passionate about his interest in working as a magician in the restaurant field. I agree with his article even though I don't work restaurants.

I haven't seen anything else written by him yet. I'd like to encourage him to write more. I like to read and would rather read about good or bad tricks and stories about magic than something the newspaper printed. I don't even care if it's well written or written poorly this is still WAY more interesting to me than the New York Times. But here I am rambling about my own opinion. ugh. I'll stop now. This was supposed to be a PM to Mark Lewis.

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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Mark.Lewis » November 17th, 2009, 10:39 am

How very odd. I didn't know I didn't accept PMs. It must be some technical computer thing that I do not understand that is the cause of the problem.

Anyway I DIDN'T call Christopher's ramblings "ramblings" even though I expect they were. I was merely quoting what someone else said.

I HAVE seen other things that Christopher has written but always on the internet. I don't agree with any of it. I will however be quite ready to admit that his ramblings as they no doubt are may well be the most interesting part of the magazine. People love controversy. I learned that years ago.

For example I bet more people read what I have to say on here than anyone else whether they care to admit it or not. As my old friend Murray the Escapologist used to say "Talk about me good, talk about me bad-it doesn't matter as long as you talk about me"

Christopher is following this advice and I congratulate him for it.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 17th, 2009, 11:13 am

Mark Lewis can now accept Private Messages.
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Silly Walter
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Silly Walter » December 12th, 2009, 5:59 pm

Actually I had a chance to read someone else's copy of the first issue. I was right to laugh the first time. I am glad I didn't subscribe to this piece of [censored] !!
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 12th, 2009, 6:37 pm

Well, Walter, we now know you're from the UK. Probably Scotland.
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Silly Walter
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Silly Walter » December 12th, 2009, 6:43 pm

Well colour me impressed !! Blackpool was splendid, mate.
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Mark.Lewis
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Mark.Lewis » December 12th, 2009, 7:08 pm

Perhaps Walter could give us a more detailed explanation of his opinion of the Magic Menu. Why precisely does he not like it?

I would also like to know who he considers the best contributors and who is the worst.

Nathan Muir
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Nathan Muir » December 12th, 2009, 7:16 pm

I'd like to read that, too.

Mark.Lewis
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Mark.Lewis » December 12th, 2009, 7:19 pm

I would particularly like to know what the thinks about the following three contributors:
Paul Gordon, Danny Doyle and christopher Lyle.

Silly Walter
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Silly Walter » December 12th, 2009, 8:08 pm

Mark.Lewis wrote:I would particularly like to know what the thinks about the following three contributors:
Paul Gordon, Danny Doyle and christopher Lyle.


Paul Gordon - the two tricks - diminishing Not likely and Twister have been done before by other magicians. The diminishing trick reminds me of the final proving phase of Regal Aces by Darwin Ortiz. I've seen other variations like it for many years. In other words, it was nothing new and I don't think I would claim that to be my own unless it was drastically different. Not a bad trick. Same with Twister. I believe there is a Max Maven effect from focus and a similar routine in John Bannon's booklet Mirage where Twister is pretty similar but without the ending or beginning (the Maven and Bannon tricks are variations of Underground transposition I believe). Not bad tricks and I am sure they play well in the restaurant or at the ice cream socials.

Danny Doyle - No opinion. I think he reviewed something and zzzzzzzzz.

Christopher Lyle - I don't want to insult the man because I think it is wonderful that he is helping one of his students at Christmas time and that will trump any irritation he may cause otherwise, but the article on stealing someone else's gig was a work of pure fiction and gave me diarrhea when I read it. How can you steal something that isn't really yours? If you are going to write a piece of fiction, you may want to throw in some zombies, space aliens or a time travel theme to keep it interesting. Despite that, I actually did enjoy Christopher's writing style.

I don't know if I am just comparing it to the magic Menure of yore but if the original Magic Menu is the Gilligan's Island of magic magazines, then the issue I flipped through is the TV movie The Harlem Globetrotters on Gilligan's Island.

Now before everyone starts jumping on this thread and gets mad because I may have caused weeping and gnashing of teeth, don't take my word for it. If anyone is interested in checking the magazine out, go ahead and get it. My money will go towards my crack habit where it will be better spent.
Silly Walter The Polar Bear

Mark.Lewis
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Mark.Lewis » December 12th, 2009, 9:10 pm

What makes you say that Christopher's words were "pure fiction?"

Now I am even more worried about the poor student 14 year old magician he was talking about. Not that I am of a cynical mind of course.

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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Paul Gordon » December 13th, 2009, 12:48 am

Dear Walter,

You are right! Neither of my tricks were/are new. Both were created by me in the early 80's and both have been in print before...a VERY long time ago!

PG
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Mark.Lewis » December 13th, 2009, 1:15 am

I never did review Paul's video clip. I decided to wait until I felt more objective about it It seemed quite good although naturally I have seen much better too. I shall give him seven out of ten. I think he looks a little too pleased with himself and I think his natural arrogance shows a little but that could be just bias on my part. I don't like English accents anyway. They sound so ordinary. The people seem to enjoy him and that is the main thing.

A little too much like a card trick machine rather than a human being for my liking but again that could be just my bias. His main fault seems to be that he has not built much of a character around himself and is relying on the tricks to see him through. And that sentence is nothing to do with my bias.

And I will admit that he is a touch above Fred Robinson and Jack Avis but of course that isn't too hard a feat.

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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Paul Gordon » December 13th, 2009, 2:06 am

Mark.Lewis wrote: I don't like English accents anyway.


Not much I can do about that...

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El Mystico
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby El Mystico » December 13th, 2009, 2:35 am

Paul;

I think you misunderstand Silly Walter. When he said your tricks were nothing new, he wasnt referring to you creating them in the 80s, but saying that they were minor variants on existing material.
I seem to remember that when Twister got published in Apocalypse originally, the write up acknowledged that it was based on something by MM/PG.

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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Mark.Lewis » December 13th, 2009, 2:38 am

Dunno. I know one of the best street magicians in the world. He started off with a Bristol accent. He now has a French accent. I think it is his greatest trick.

An English accent is an asset in Norh America but in England itself it is just one of many. An accent should stand out somehow. All the best magicians have had interesting voices. Think about it.

Even an English accent can be interesting in England if it is distinctive in some way. Think about it. Paul Daniels, Tommy Cooper,Maurice Fogel, Al Koran, Ken Brooke,DAvid Berglas, Patrick Page (Scottish) etc;

Americans too. VErnon had his distinctive twang, Slydini had his accent, Goshman had his distinctive New York accent.

A distinctive voice really is half the battle. It means a lot

Silly Walter
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Silly Walter » December 13th, 2009, 3:00 am

Mark.Lewis wrote:What makes you say that Christopher's words were "pure fiction?"

Now I am even more worried about the poor student 14 year old magician he was talking about. Not that I am of a cynical mind of course.


He has a perfect platform to give advice and he chooses to speak about "stealing gigs". You can't have something stolen if it really doesn't belong to you. The owner of the restaurant or the GM usually decides whether or not a magician will work at the restaurant. The magician really has no say so.

Now I am not encouraging the poach and low ball method, no good sales person would do that anyway but ... don't market yourself where another magician is working? Never? Never ever ever?

Let me create a situation. Let's say that there is a restaurant called Snotty's and the magician they have working on Wednesday nights is none other than top UK cardman Paul Gordon (amazing).

Let's say that Mr. Gordon works Friday nights at the Crapplebees down the skreet. Let's say that Snotty's has a kids night on Friday night (the night Paul is magishing at Crapplebees) and my company the Balloon Farm has a service that would benefit Snotty's for their kids-eat-for-half-price night. I would do some awesome balloon animals and I would also do magic like sponge balls, the magic colouring book, a chop cup routine and De'Vo's Cradle to the Grave. Christopher advises not to market where another magician is working. Certainly if you were to do it, Chris thinks you are bad (to the balloon). It seems to be so black and white in this article that it is unethical to want to work somewhere that may have a magician regardless of the situation and it is coming from a person who doesn't make the decision for the restaurant in regards to who they hire. In other words, every magician who tries to work at a restaurant that already has a magician is a gig stealer. I shouldn't be surprised. This mentality carries over in magic because a lot of magicians seem to think that anyone that speaks during a performance is a heckler so any magician wanting to work at a restaurant with a magician is a gig stealer.

Chris could have used that space for something that would be more beneficial. For example - Chris has worked in restaurants for over 20 years and I am sure he has worked at a couple of restaurants for multiple years. Why not write an article on things you can do to maintain such a good relationship with your management and staff that if a gig stealing poacher did come to the restaurant that you would have nothing to worry about. How do you keep gigs when the economy is rough? How do you land gigs when the economy is rough? What situations have come up that you never even think about until you are actually working at a restaurant? Things like this would benefit the readers much more than ranting about how he hates magicians that try to work at the same restaurant another magician is at. It is this misplaced sense of authority that turned me off.
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Silly Walter
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Silly Walter » December 13th, 2009, 3:01 am

El Mystico wrote:Paul;

I think you misunderstand Silly Walter. When he said your tricks were nothing new, he wasnt referring to you creating them in the 80s, but saying that they were minor variants on existing material.
I seem to remember that when Twister got published in Apocalypse originally, the write up acknowledged that it was based on something by MM/PG.


Correct.
Silly Walter The Polar Bear

Paul Gordon
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Paul Gordon » December 13th, 2009, 3:04 am

Maybe, Mark...but, I'm buggered (excuse the expression) if I'm going to "affect" an accent. I know one well-known UK cardman who has gotten himself a weird American accent; as has a Scottish magician. It sounds ever so hokey. It's a bit like Dick Van Dyke trying to do - laughably - a cockney accent! PG
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Paul Gordon » December 13th, 2009, 3:07 am

...and being Sussex born and bred, I don't have a "regional" (so-called "interesting") accent... As a Brit, you know that. PG
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Christopher Lyle
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Christopher Lyle » December 13th, 2009, 8:48 am

Silly Walter wrote:
Why not write an article on things you can do to maintain such a good relationship with your management and staff that if a gig stealing poacher did come to the restaurant that you would have nothing to worry about. How do you keep gigs when the economy is rough? How do you land gigs when the economy is rough? What situations have come up that you never even think about until you are actually working at a restaurant? Things like this would benefit the readers much more than ranting about how he hates magicians that try to work at the same restaurant another magician is at. It is this misplaced sense of authority that turned me off.


This is actually EXACTLY the type of opinion that I asked for immediately after the first issue came out and nobody ever responded to it. I asked people WHAT they would like advice on and WHAT they wanted to see me (and others) write about.

My 2nd column has already been sent out and oddly enough, will focus on exactly what Silly Walter wishes to see me write about.

I won't get into an arguement with you about my first column "A Question of Ethics" as I know it won't do any good. Obviously, we disagree on that subject. But I will say that it's a subject that I'm very passionate about and I felt (and still do) that it needed to be said. Whether you consider it a work of fact or fiction, well...that's for the reader to decide.

The point of "Sleightly Delusional" is for me to not only provide advice, but also to "rant" about things that hack me off in the Magic World. My first article was a rant. This next issues will offer up something differnt.

I was happy with my first column as were many others...but then again...you can't please them all.

I think that ALL of us are working hard to make The Menu a success...but like with everything, we're all still trying to find our niche'.

Christopher
In Mystery,

Christopher Lyle
www.lylemagic.com
Columnist - The Magic Menu

opie
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby opie » December 13th, 2009, 9:00 am

Christopher....fellow Texan....

It is your column. Write it to please YOU. Writing something to please somebody else, besides yourself, will not be fresh and convincing. If readers don't like your column, they will skip over it and maybe complain a bit. Those who do like it probably
won't say anything to you about it. Just smile and say "Thank you" to all responses....

I have not yet read the new Menu, but I am reading VERY CLOSELY the old bound issues. I am on page 68, and I have already found a half dozen items that I wish to play around with...

You guys do your thing...All things rise and/or fall in due time..Therefore, just do what feels good and leave the other stuff to others who just might want to bitch...

opie

Jim Sisti
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Jim Sisti » December 13th, 2009, 11:14 am

Silly Walter wrote:I just noticed the line up of contributors. Christopher Lyle? Scott Guinn? Paul Gordon?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!

They should see if they can get James Munton on staff too.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!

Christopher Lyle as a contributor. That's rich, I'll say !!!


Silly Walter wrote:Gentlemen,

I have reread this thread and read everyones views even the hostile ones. I went back through my previous issues of the Magic Menu and reevaluated my initial assessment and I started to realize that perhaps this one time I might be mistaken.

I might even go as far to say as that I was dead wrong.

Lets face it. The restaurant and entertainment business has changed over the last 20 years. Who better to write about working at restaurants than todays workers?

As a result, I will be posting individual apologies to some of the magicians that may have felt "sleighted" by comments made by yours truly.

My apology will be sincere however I will be offering some friendly advice along the way.

Stay Tooned


Silly Walter wrote:Actually I had a chance to read someone else's copy of the first issue. I was right to laugh the first time. I am glad I didn't subscribe to this piece of [censored] !!


Perhaps it should be Silly Walter the Bi-Polar Bear...

Mark.Lewis
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Mark.Lewis » December 13th, 2009, 1:14 pm

There seems to be all sorts of arguments going at the same time in this thread. Hoepfully it will end up like the Blackpool thread and that will give me much amusement.

I must be a little bi-polar myself. I agree with Walter and I also agree with Opie. Anyway young Christopher has only written one column. Give the boy a chance. It will take him a little time to find his feet.

I agree with Paul Gordon that he should not change his accent. Not a lot he can do about it and to affect a different accent would be a mistake. I am merely saying that he is labouring under a disadvantage. It is a weakness. The best magicians do have something distinctive about their way of speaking.

It is odd that I am the only one who has ever noticed it. I am making magic history once again it seems.

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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby opie » December 13th, 2009, 4:36 pm

Jim: "Bi-Polar Bear"....that's cold, Jim...

Mark: "I also agree with Opie"......I knew you would come around, if I kept being nice to you...haha....But you do need to work on staying on topic; I suggest some internal transitions such as, "Have you heard about the incestuous bi-polar bear who laid his paw on the table?"......and it wasn't even on the Magic Menu....(see how things come back on topic?....tsk tsk)....

Keep on keeping Mark, Jim and ALL.....opie

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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Nathan Muir » December 13th, 2009, 5:37 pm

I think it's in very poor taste to make a joke out of a mental illness. But I can understand it, as Jim Sisti often takes these things very personally. If I was Jim, my advice would be to let criticisms wash over himself and not worry too much. In my experience, many more magicians will adore magazines like the magic menu (doing so on plebeian forums like Genii and the Cafe) than will think critically about the quality of it's content and style, so Jim has nothing to concern himself about. I am sure his magazine will go from strength to strength.

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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 13th, 2009, 8:19 pm

Walter has made conflicting statements, but that doesn't make him bi-polar. Just inconsistent.
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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Mark.Lewis » December 13th, 2009, 8:41 pm

I think it is simply a matter of Walter changing his mind then changing it back again once he saw an actual issue. He decided it was no good then he wondered if he was perhaps wrong but once he saw the issue he realised he wasn't

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Re: The Magic Menu

Postby Christopher Lyle » December 13th, 2009, 9:05 pm

It was Silly Walter who got me to sign up on the Genii Forum with his first rant. He later came back and offered up an apology for what he said and he sent me a very nice and apologetic PM.

Now he comes back and says it's all S***.

It makes little sense to me...but what do I know?

Jim contacted me to write for him becuase he likes my writing style, my opinions, and my sharp tongue. That is what you will get from me...always! If you don't like me, or what I have to say, you can just ignore what my column and move on to the next one.

Jim has provided me a platform to say anything about everything...and I plan to do just that. My first was a RANT. January is an advice column. The last two columns to round out the first year of The Menu will more than likely both be rants.

Read them or don't...subscribe or don't. Whatever floats your boat...

Peace be the Journey...

Christopher
In Mystery,



Christopher Lyle

www.lylemagic.com

Columnist - The Magic Menu



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